Why Mary & Joseph?

[2ndTimothyGroup]

.



According to Gen 1:27 and Gen 3:20, women propagate the human race
equally as effective as men do; and here's why.

Eve was constructed with human material taken from Adam's body. That
made her just as biologically human as Adam-- in point of fact, Gen 5:2 calls
the female Adam just as the male is called Adam.

So then, were human material taken from Eve's body to construct another
human-- either male or female --it would make the flesh of that other
person's body Eve's flesh; and consequently Adam's too because his flesh
has been the source of all human flesh from the very beginning. (Acts
17:26)

As a result; virgin-conceived human children are just as much related to
Adam as their human mother if indeed she was in any way biologically
related to Eve.

Was Mary biologically related to Eve? I think we can be reasonably certain
that she was. So, if indeed she was, then we can easily trace Jesus'
biological genealogy not only to David, but also to Adam.

NOTE: Most Christians will readily attest that Jesus Christ is fully Man while in
reality a number of them are not fully persuaded he wasn't some sort of
divine hominid implanted in Mary's uterus so that no part of her body was
used to construct his, i.e. they honestly question whether Jesus' mom wasn't
his surrogate mother rather than his biological mother.
_

Luke 3:8 NLT - "Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God. Don't just say to each other, 'We're safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.' That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones."

I have felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God. What Jesus said above is not His way of being funny . . . He was dead serious. Biology is a worldly idea.

 

[Diakonos]

Why can't Jesus simply be the Son of David?

An Israelite can be a descendant of Abraham without being a descendant of David.
But An Israelite cannot be a descendant of David without being a descendant of Abraham.

Also, there are intentional mathematical implications in the genealogy of Jesus that have to go further back than David for them to be realized.

Every detail of the Bible is intentional and useful. Morte often then noticed, the details are to refute every possible heresy.

 

[posthuman]

Eve was constructed with human material taken from Adam's body. That
made her just as biologically human as Adam-- in point of fact, Gen 5:2 calls
the female Adam just as the male is called Adam.

that is incorrect.

the name Adam is preceded by the definite article when it refers to Adam specifically ((for example in Genesis 3:22)). but the word adam is the word for 'mankind' or a non-specific 'man' when it has no definite article.
in Genesis 5:2 the word is just adam, no definite article. He called them man in the day they were created, not 'Adam'

 

[Blik]

The passage below is how God views women, and thus so do I. We are spirits within human bodies . . . nothing more. Thus, we are all equal.

Galatians 3:28 KJV - 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

It is good you look to scripture to know God. When you see God listing women and gentiles in the genealogy of Christ, what does that mean to you as you look to scripture to understand God? Do you look to the one scripture and ignore the other?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

It is good you look to scripture to know God.

Thanks

When you see God listing women and gentiles in the genealogy of Christ, what does that mean to you as you look to scripture to understand God?

I've never thought about it.

Do you look to the one scripture and ignore the other?

What are you doing?

 

[Blik]

[QUOTE="2ndTimothyGroup, post: 4730836, member: 305

What are you doing?[/QUOTE] I am fascinated with all God tells me about the place God created man and woman to have. The importance God gives forgiven women and gentiles in his earthly life fits into knowing my God and our place in his kingdom. To me it was important information.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Do you look to the one scripture and ignore the other?

Let me rephrase myself. Why are you asking me such (what appears to be) a loaded question? Are you still attempting to stir the pot with me?

I'm not interested in playing mind-games with you (nor anyone else).

 

[Blik]

Let me rephrase myself. Why are you asking me such (what appears to be) a loaded question? Are you still attempting to stir the pot with me?

I'm not interested in playing mind-games with you (nor anyone else).

I use this site to grow in the Lord, not to play at anything. I am bewildered that I see the listing of forgiven women and gentiles in Christ's genealogy and others do not see any importance in it. There are people here who listen to Christ within them, I learn by exploring what they think. I have grown and changed by doing this and it is something I seriously do. If it is simply games for you, then I will put you on ignore and hope you are not joined by others,

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

If it is simply games for you, then I will put you on ignore and hope you are not joined by others,

So you still haven't addressed my question to you (I've offered it to you twice), yet claim that you're not playing games. You can put me on ignore if you want. I"m not here to convince you, nor anyone, of anything, nor am I here to be picked apart my childish phrasings and musings.

 

[Blik]

So you still haven't addressed my question to you (I've offered it to you twice), yet claim that you're not playing games. You can put me on ignore if you want. I"m not here to convince you, nor anyone, of anything, nor am I here to be picked apart my childish phrasings and musings.

Sorry we can't communicate, I'll bet you could be an interesting person I would have enjoyed.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Sorry we can't communicate, I'll bet you could be an interesting person I would have enjoyed.

Likewise about you. When I first ran across you, I was astonished in how much we seemed to agree regarding Circumcision of Heart. But as you say, communication seems utterly impossible. And that . . . is difficult to imagine if we were holding the same Spirit.

 

[JaumeJ]

Exactly, so how could Jesus be the Son of David? This Holy genealogy (Matt 1:1) is Holy because it is Spiritual. It is more than flesh and blood.

Here is a meditation on the name, David. David is not translated to our languge, it means Beloved.

Now if we tdranslate thename of David, we may say Jesus Yeshua is the sone of the Beloved.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Here is a meditation on the name, David. David is not translated to our language, it means Beloved.

Now if we translate the name of David, we may say Jesus Yeshua is the son of the Beloved.

Amen. My name is, in fact, David. I like this offering of yours.

 

[ewq1938]

H1732
דָּוִיד דָּוִד
dâvid dâvı̂yd
daw-veed', daw-veed'
From the same as H1730; loving; David, the youngest son of Jesse: - David.
Total KJV occurrences: 1076

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

H1732
דָּוִיד דָּוִד
dâvid dâvı̂yd
daw-veed', daw-veed'
From the same as H1730; loving; David, the youngest son of Jesse: - David.
Total KJV occurrences: 1076

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Thank you! And so as you are demonstrating, Jesus's being the Son of David is far more than just flesh and blood . . . but it is deeply Spiritual. The vast majority read the Bible at face value (even when they think they're not) and thus are, by default, incapable of understanding its True depth. And to be fair, there is no human alive that can testify to the Bible's entire depth. These things will be revealed and made known when we become encased in and by the Powerful Presence of our Lord God.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, of course. So why is it that no one refers to themselves as the Son of Abraham other than the actual son's of Abraham and Jesus? Jesus is the only one who claims this position. Sure, some referenced themselves as "descendants" of Abraham, but not "sons." Why?

Luke 3:8 NLT - "Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God. Don't just say to each other, 'We're safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.' That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones."

Above, we note two things:

There are no "sons" of Abraham. And two, being descendants of Abraham means "nothing."

Again, the "Church" is completely missing something very, very critical, here. Pft . . . even an 80-year-old pastor was shocked when I showed him Matthew 1:1. The "church" is as blind as a bat.

I see it this way,

Son of David is the son of the king. David was also given a covenant. where his son and his family would have a kingdom established forever.

2 sam 7:
10 Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, 11 since the time that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel, and have caused you to rest from all your enemies. Also the Lord tells you that He will make you a house.
12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men. 15 But My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.” ’ ”
17 According to all these words and according to all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David.

Abraham had many sons. Out of him was bore many nations. He was not said to be given a kingdom through his line. Only that many kings would be made through him.

While he is a son of Abraham, Son of David to the jews has a more important meaning, it means he is err to the throne of David. which he will take on the future.

anyway. Hope this helps some. Just a few thoughts..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

these passages don't strictly say the Messiah has to be 'legally related to Solomon'
they say the throne of Solomon's kingdom, which is equivocated with David's throne & kingdom there in 2 Samuel, that throne and that kingdom will be established forever.

seeing that God equivocates the throne & kingdom of Solomon with the throne & kingdom of David, being descended from David is sufficient 'legal descendency' to satisfy both 'son of David' and 'occupying the throne of David'

but what is 'the throne of the kingdom of David' -- what does God mean when He uses these phrases? why does God put David & Solomon's kingship together with the phrase 'throne of the kingdom' in Messianic prophecy?

both David & Solomon were anointed king by the prophet of the LORD while another was king of Israel. in David's case, he was annointed by Samuel while Saul, who had also been annointed by Samuel, was king. in Solomon's he was annointed by Zadok the priest of the LORD while Adonijah had usurped the kingship ((1 Kings 1)).
so the One who is established on the throne of the kingdom of David/Solomon is likewise an Anointed One who supplants a disgraced king who had once been anointed, through the tesimony of a prophet, and an Anointed One who supplants a false king who had presumed the throne with a false prophet & a treacherous military leader.

and Christ, the Messiah, The Annointed One - He comes twice. in His first appearing, He is revealed as the second Adam, assuming federal headship over mankind, which had been the fist man Adam's: the man who fell, was supplanted by The Son of Man who rose. in His second appearing He will destroy the beast and the false prophet, and destroy his armies. and will He not sit on 'the throne of His kingdom' at that time?

Hey brother.

In the davidic covenant. God through Nathan told David his son (soloman) would be given a kingdom. And this line would be forever as an established kingdom.

would this not require the future king Of Davids throne to be a direct relative of Solomon. to whom the covenant was made through?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Great post. We must keep in mind that Jesus wasn’t the son of Joseph; He was the Son of God (check out His genealogy in the book of Luke). Joseph was only Jesus’ adoptive father.

is this the answer?

As Josephs adopted son, is it through this line in which he receives the throne? As an adopted son is a legal heir?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Luke 3:8 NLT - "Prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God. Don't just say to each other, 'We're safe, for we are descendants of Abraham.' That means nothing, for I tell you, God can create children of Abraham from these very stones."

I have felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God. What Jesus said above is not His way of being funny . . . He was dead serious. Biology is a worldly idea.

one must remember, In Abraham's covenant, God said in you (your seed) shall all the nations of the world be blessed.

In his seed (Christ) Shall all nations (jew or gentile)

So just being a child of Abraham does not make you automatically saved.

But Jesus had to be his child through the seed.. So that does matter,, If he was not the seed, then Abraham's covenant could not be fulfilled.

 

[Webers.Home]

.

As Josephs adopted son, is it through this line in which he receives the
throne? As an adopted son is a legal heir?

.No man has a right to take David's throne unless he is first of all one of
David's biological descendants; no getting around it. (2Sam 7:8 17 and
Ps 89:3-4)

Secondly, the man has to be one of Solomon's legal descendants because it
is thru Solomon that David's throne passes down to his royal heirs. (2Sam
7:12-13, 1Chron 17:11-14, and 1Chron 22:9-10)

Jesus is biologically related to David via his mother; whereas he is legally
related to Solomon via his relationship with Joseph.

NOTE: Jacob was the first among the people of Israel to practice adoption
when he took Joseph's two sons Manasseh and Ephraim as his own (Gen
48:5-6) thus giving the two boys positions in Jacob's clan equal in rank to
his two eldest biological sons.

A number of modern Jews refuse to accept Jesus' position in Solomon's royal
genealogy via adoption, but they have no say in the matter because one of
their own patriarchs set the precedent; and among pious Jews, the
patriarchs are God, if you get my meaning. In point of fact, Jacob's spiritual
name "Israel" is from Yisra'el (yis-raw-ale') which means: he will rule as
God; which doesn't mean rule like God; but rather: in God's stead.
_