Why Jerusalem?
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I do
Not take one verse and make a doctrine I take the whole of scripture
In rev the woman is isreal she is protected during the time the harlot is destroyed god is not the author of confusion. Jerusalem has
Never been called Babylon. While jerusalem May have been called a harlot. This is not a harlot. it is the mother of harlots She was around long before jerusalem. As I said Baal worship was
Part Of the harlot system. No one in johns day would have considered jerusalem Babylon. Babylon would have been time
Not take one verse and make a doctrine I take the whole of scripture
In rev the woman is isreal she is protected during the time the harlot is destroyed god is not the author of confusion. Jerusalem has
Never been called Babylon. While jerusalem May have been called a harlot. This is not a harlot. it is the mother of harlots She was around long before jerusalem. As I said Baal worship was
Part Of the harlot system. No one in johns day would have considered jerusalem Babylon. Babylon would have been time
Methinks people who are unsure, go through the Bible, see how many times Jerusalem is mentioned.
Then go through the bible and see how many times Rome is mentioned. Look only at scripture, not commentaries which are NOT scripture,
a quick biblehub search should be able to tell you.
another thing is to compare the book of Romans with the book of Hebrews and the gospels.
Does Jesus warn anyone that the city of Rome is going to be destroyed? No he goes about warning that Jerusalem is going to be invaded, and for people to flee.
Does Paul in the book of Romans say hes going to warn the ROMANS about their city? Does the writer of Hebrews have anything to say about the sacrifices at the altar in ROME or Jerusalem?
Is the heavenly city in the book of Revelations the new Jerusalem or is it the new Rome?
Then go through the bible and see how many times Rome is mentioned. Look only at scripture, not commentaries which are NOT scripture,
a quick biblehub search should be able to tell you.
another thing is to compare the book of Romans with the book of Hebrews and the gospels.
Does Jesus warn anyone that the city of Rome is going to be destroyed? No he goes about warning that Jerusalem is going to be invaded, and for people to flee.
Does Paul in the book of Romans say hes going to warn the ROMANS about their city? Does the writer of Hebrews have anything to say about the sacrifices at the altar in ROME or Jerusalem?
Is the heavenly city in the book of Revelations the new Jerusalem or is it the new Rome?
ifntounstidynthennew tesrament you have revelation to understand israel
Is being restored her citizens are the church anyone who believes the gospel is Israel .
here’s something valuable if you will consider it brother . There is a Jerusalem on earth and there is a Jerusalem in heaven . The Jerusalem on earth became a whore a cheating wife to God who committed adultery habitually with other Gods .
Israel is being restored all things are being restored there is a Jerusalem on earth the great whore and then there is the one in heaven where Christ is on the throne inside the temple in heaven the true temple of God That temple is in the heavenly Jerusalem
“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV
The true Jerusalem is in heaven not on this earth
“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
Revelation 21:2 KJV
it exists in heaven until Christ’s return when it will be manifest fully. Did you notice earlier I was trying to show you this that there is heaven and those who dwell therin and there is earth and those who dwell therin
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
...Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Revelation 12:10, 12KJV
do you see what I’m saying ? Heaven is a spiritual place where the spirits of men who are justified by God exist. Those who have been redeemed by him. Those people have come to that heavenly Jerusalem until creation is restored
that Church if the firstborn appears in heaven those from all nations who came to God through Christ
“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, ...
... And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
Revelation 7:9-17 KJV
That’s where Israel is being restored through the new covenant . It doesn’t make a person an Israelite because they are born of Abraham’s blood , it makes a person a child of Abraham because they believe the gospel God doesn’t recognize the flesh anymore like the ot Christ is revelation to understand prophecy and the epistles.
Christ is the line of Abraham whoever accepts the gospel is a child of Abraham the children of Abraham are Israel and the heirs according to the promise no matter thier race or nationality what matters is thier faith
Is being restored her citizens are the church anyone who believes the gospel is Israel .
here’s something valuable if you will consider it brother . There is a Jerusalem on earth and there is a Jerusalem in heaven . The Jerusalem on earth became a whore a cheating wife to God who committed adultery habitually with other Gods .
Israel is being restored all things are being restored there is a Jerusalem on earth the great whore and then there is the one in heaven where Christ is on the throne inside the temple in heaven the true temple of God That temple is in the heavenly Jerusalem
“But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV
The true Jerusalem is in heaven not on this earth
“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
Revelation 21:2 KJV
it exists in heaven until Christ’s return when it will be manifest fully. Did you notice earlier I was trying to show you this that there is heaven and those who dwell therin and there is earth and those who dwell therin
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:
for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
...Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Revelation 12:10, 12KJV
do you see what I’m saying ? Heaven is a spiritual place where the spirits of men who are justified by God exist. Those who have been redeemed by him. Those people have come to that heavenly Jerusalem until creation is restored
that Church if the firstborn appears in heaven those from all nations who came to God through Christ
“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, ...
... And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
Revelation 7:9-17 KJV
That’s where Israel is being restored through the new covenant . It doesn’t make a person an Israelite because they are born of Abraham’s blood , it makes a person a child of Abraham because they believe the gospel God doesn’t recognize the flesh anymore like the ot Christ is revelation to understand prophecy and the epistles.
Christ is the line of Abraham whoever accepts the gospel is a child of Abraham the children of Abraham are Israel and the heirs according to the promise no matter thier race or nationality what matters is thier faith
honestly I’m not sure we’re going to agree you are saying a lot but just sort of assuming I need to agree with you , where as I’m offering you scripture after scripture to show you why I’m saying what I’m saying . I think we’re looking at it differently which is okay with me but I don’t think it will lead to agreement that way
a very interesting discussion though
a very interesting discussion though
yea it’s unfamiliar to
Me , but also I try to remain open to what people are saying , and then try to reflect on scripture to see if there’s anything to what they are saying .
I’m for sure no expert or authority I just happen to believe scripture so because of that a lot of my prayer life is a request to understand and let it transform my mind and life because I’m lost without Gods wisdom in my heart and mind , that’s my faith and hope so I sort of have to believe more as I learn more and believe more .
And I believe I’m beginning to see the light so I suddenly recently began to have a desire to hear what others have learned and see if i can grow up more in Christ and find some brethren and “sistren “ Who are like minded with a desire to discuss and learn from scriptures if they are like minded
Me , but also I try to remain open to what people are saying , and then try to reflect on scripture to see if there’s anything to what they are saying .
I’m for sure no expert or authority I just happen to believe scripture so because of that a lot of my prayer life is a request to understand and let it transform my mind and life because I’m lost without Gods wisdom in my heart and mind , that’s my faith and hope so I sort of have to believe more as I learn more and believe more .
And I believe I’m beginning to see the light so I suddenly recently began to have a desire to hear what others have learned and see if i can grow up more in Christ and find some brethren and “sistren “ Who are like minded with a desire to discuss and learn from scriptures if they are like minded
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Your forgetting OT prophecies of Israel being restored after they repent, amd Jesus ruling in Jerusalem. and people,being punished because they did not come to jerusalem (Zach 14: 17)
you get punished because you sin, there is no sin in heaven so it can not be in heaven
you also have israel and judah being made 1 again, and never again being two nations, and those who treated her badly being destroyed or punished (Ezekiel 37)
you have gods promise that even if he completely removed them from the land due to sin, and given them to the nations and totally destroys jerusalem and the temple, if they repent and confess, god will remember his promises, the nation and the land. (Lev26)
these are but a few, there are so much more
you get punished because you sin, there is no sin in heaven so it can not be in heaven
you also have israel and judah being made 1 again, and never again being two nations, and those who treated her badly being destroyed or punished (Ezekiel 37)
you have gods promise that even if he completely removed them from the land due to sin, and given them to the nations and totally destroys jerusalem and the temple, if they repent and confess, god will remember his promises, the nation and the land. (Lev26)
these are but a few, there are so much more
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Dan 2, who is in power when the iron and clay kingdom is alive, a stone will crush the statue and set up his own kingdom. The iron and clay kingdom is rome 2
in daniel 7, again, the final beast is in power when Jesus returns. The final beast is rome 2. (it is rome, but what is said about her has not occured yet)
we take these with the revelations prophecies, and we see a picture of gentile kingdoms which will rule jerusalem, also called I believe in Romans 11 the time of the gentile, when this time is completed, all Isreal will be saved,
in daniel 7, again, the final beast is in power when Jesus returns. The final beast is rome 2. (it is rome, but what is said about her has not occured yet)
we take these with the revelations prophecies, and we see a picture of gentile kingdoms which will rule jerusalem, also called I believe in Romans 11 the time of the gentile, when this time is completed, all Isreal will be saved,
brother why do you suppose Jesus ministry began with the message “ the time has come repent ye and believe the gospel of the kingdom ?
Israel was to be restored by the new covenant the messiah would bring that was being promised throughout the Old Testament . The breaking of Israel’s covenant meant this , because they were his chosen people To rule over the earth , but they constantly rejected him and served other gods after all he did to free them and bless them. It led the world eventually to here because all sinned .
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:5-6, 20 KJV
that can’t be undone so this is what else the prophets were always saying Before jesus came
“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV
It wasn’t just a new covenant he was promising but because the earth was cursed now and it’s inhabitants he began to speak forth salvation from that curse
“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
Isaiah 42:9 KJV
“And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
But ye are they that forsake the Lord, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen:
for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
Isaiah 65:9, 11-17 KJV
he promises like that all through scripture to destroy Israel and create a new people for himself through the messiah and the covenant given to Israel , and then sent to all the world
Israel was to be restored by the new covenant the messiah would bring that was being promised throughout the Old Testament . The breaking of Israel’s covenant meant this , because they were his chosen people To rule over the earth , but they constantly rejected him and served other gods after all he did to free them and bless them. It led the world eventually to here because all sinned .
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:5-6, 20 KJV
that can’t be undone so this is what else the prophets were always saying Before jesus came
“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV
It wasn’t just a new covenant he was promising but because the earth was cursed now and it’s inhabitants he began to speak forth salvation from that curse
“Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.”
Isaiah 42:9 KJV
“And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
But ye are they that forsake the Lord, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number. Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen:
for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
Isaiah 65:9, 11-17 KJV
he promises like that all through scripture to destroy Israel and create a new people for himself through the messiah and the covenant given to Israel , and then sent to all the world
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how are you accounting for the two separate covenants ? The two separate heavens and earth the one that is doomed and the one God has promised ?
of Israel is going to be restored eternally on this earth then how is it going to come to earth from heaven ?
honestly I think you aren’t conpeehendingnwhy we need to be saved and what we’re being saved from . This world is cursed it is the land of the shadow of death , it is going to come to end every nation on earth is going to be destroyed
but there are the promises of Gkdnfor a new creation that is eternal into which we are saved
“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:13
your selerating israel from gentiles Jesus doesn’t do that it’s a new covenant based on who repents and believes The gospel of his kingdom of all nations that is Gods people
of Israel is going to be restored eternally on this earth then how is it going to come to earth from heaven ?
honestly I think you aren’t conpeehendingnwhy we need to be saved and what we’re being saved from . This world is cursed it is the land of the shadow of death , it is going to come to end every nation on earth is going to be destroyed
but there are the promises of Gkdnfor a new creation that is eternal into which we are saved
“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:13
your selerating israel from gentiles Jesus doesn’t do that it’s a new covenant based on who repents and believes The gospel of his kingdom of all nations that is Gods people
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So you believe the city of Jerusalem will be protected from the nations who take it and rape the women of the city?
https://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-2.htm
That's interesting.
You constantly disagree with God.
Who taught you to do that?
https://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-2.htm
That's interesting.
You constantly disagree with God.
Who taught you to do that?
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2 seperate covenants? Mosaic and new? Well in salvation sense, mosaic was weak and failed, the new covenant is what saved us
but we are talking about the abrahamic. The new covenant does not replace the abrahamic. It is part of the abrahamic. the abrahamic is an eternal covenant, all aspects.
new jerusalem has nothing to do with a covenant lit is a new heaven a and earth when Christ destroys this one. So not sure why your trying to compair these things,
but we are talking about the abrahamic. The new covenant does not replace the abrahamic. It is part of the abrahamic. the abrahamic is an eternal covenant, all aspects.
new jerusalem has nothing to do with a covenant lit is a new heaven a and earth when Christ destroys this one. So not sure why your trying to compair these things,
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No, I believe the woman will be protected
the people who remain and do not leave as god told them to will not suffer well.
but even then, jerusalem will not be destroyed how can the temple be standing still when Christ returns. The man of sin rules from the temple at least at times. He is not going to destroy his own city,
the people who remain and do not leave as god told them to will not suffer well.
but even then, jerusalem will not be destroyed how can the temple be standing still when Christ returns. The man of sin rules from the temple at least at times. He is not going to destroy his own city,