Why do some people believe and some do not?

[Jimbone]

It's purely figurative. There is no circumcision of the heart because the heart doesn't have a foreskin. It's figurative language for cleansing. And really nothing has changed in our heart except for the presence of the holy spirit, which does change our heart as we obey it and grow into the image of Christ

btw those 3 Greek words were not intended for that post. I'm doing a study on the different words that are translated evil and had them pasted in the post window for later use

No I agree with Magenta, it's more. It's not of the flesh, but that "flesh nature" is cut away in spirit by His Spirit actually. This is not just figurative at all, and only those who have been born again, or spiritually resurrected and reconciled to His Spirit can know this. If we are still dead to the things of the Spirit then there is NO WAY we can understand this fully. So I have to disagree at least 50% with you here, this figurative language is describing and actual spiritual event. So there is "more to it" without a doubt that isn't "all figurative" . Just my take for what it's worth.

 

[Magenta]

It's purely figurative. There is no circumcision of the heart because the heart doesn't have a foreskin. It's figurative language for cleansing. And really nothing has changed in our heart except for the presence of the holy spirit, which does change our heart as we obey it and grow into the image of Christ

btw those 3 Greek words were not intended for that post. I'm doing a study on the different words that are translated evil and had them pasted in the post window for later use

I do not accept them as purely figurative, any more than many inexplicable things that are said to have happened in the Bible are not figurative, but realities. We have many who put themselves forward as teachers, such as popular radio or television evangelists and even those here who say things such as, God does not speak to people any more, or if He does, it is only through the written Word. This is nonsense to those who have heard God speak just as it is nonsense to me to be told circumcision is not real. The heart is figurative language though, used to indicate the seat of man, representing a person's emotional nature, understanding, soul, spirit, or mind... in essence the root of the entirety of his being. Talk to an atheist and they will say the heart is an organ that pumps blood. Who you are and what you experience colours how we define things.

 

[studier]

See post below yours why those words were there. I use software interlinears: Apostolic Bible Polyglot in TheWord bible software for Greek (NT and LXX) and Scripture4all for Greek NT and Hebrew OT

I saw that after I posted. Have you been taught Hebrew and or Greek, or are you teaching yourself to use those tools?

 

[Magenta]

The heart is figurative language though, used to indicate the seat of man, representing a person's emotional nature, understanding, soul, spirit, or mind... in essence the root of the entirety of his being. Talk to an atheist and they will say the heart is an organ that pumps blood. Who you are and what you experience colours how we define things. And this is exactly why a man's heart needs to be changed by God, and why a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. In these discussions the good fruit is faith. The natural man cannot of his own will generate faith. It is God's will working in us, and Scripture plainly states in more place than one that it is not by man's will, desire, or effort but God's.

 

[cv5]

So the God's transformation is circumcision of the heart. Since this is figurative language (because the heart doesn't have a foreskin) it's obviously pointing to something else. I know what the transformation is and can explain it in detail because God has revealed it in scripture. I'm just trying to find out what others believe and see if they can explain it.

Of course its revealed in Scripture.

God OFFERS Abram the COVENANT.
Abram WILLINGLY AGREES to Gods terms.
He then REACTS POSITIVELY to Gods REQUIREMENT to RECIEVE the sign of the entering into the covenant of His Blood, thereby consummating the Covenant.

This "Covenant methodology" works EXACTLY the same way for the New Covenant.
The Bride is FULLY INFORMED (including knowing the character of the Groom) and then ENTERS into the Covenant WILLINGLY.

[Gen 17:2 NKJV]
"And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly."

[Gen 17:2 NKJV]
"And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly."

[Gen 17:7 NKJV]
"And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you.

[Gen 17:9 NKJV]
And God said to Abraham: "As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.

[Gen 17:10 NKJV]
"This [is] My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised;

[Gen 17:23 NKJV]
***So*** (after the details of the negotiations have been settled) Abraham took Ishmael his son, all who were born in his house and all who were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house, and circumcised the flesh of their foreskins that very same day, as God had said to him.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

God OFFERS Abram the COVENANT.
Abram WILLINGLY AGREES to Gods terms.
He then REACTS POSITIVELY to Gods REQUIREMENT to RECIEVE the sign of the entering into the covenant of His Blood, thereby consummating the Covenant.

There were no terms to the covenant in Genesis 15; God made a promise and guaranteed it with a blood covenant. The covenant was in force once the covenant parties walked between the pieces. Circumcision came years later

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

And this is exactly why a man's heart needs to be changed by God, and why a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. I

How does God change the heart? Magic or obedience?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I saw that after I posted. Have you been taught Hebrew and or Greek, or are you teaching yourself to use those tools?

Self-learned

 

[Magenta]

There were no terms to the covenant in Genesis 15; God made a promise and guaranteed it with a blood covenant. The covenant was in force once the covenant parties walked between the pieces. Circumcision came years later

Did Abram walk between the pieces or was he in a deep sleep? Or is there another time to which you refer?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No I agree with Magenta, it's more. It's not of the flesh, but that "flesh nature" is cut away in spirit by His Spirit actually. This is not just figurative at all, and only those who have been born again, or spiritually resurrected and reconciled to His Spirit can know this. If we are still dead to the things of the Spirit then there is NO WAY we can understand this fully. So I have to disagree at least 50% with you here, this figurative language is describing and actual spiritual event. So there is "more to it" without a doubt that isn't "all figurative" . Just my take for what it's worth.

Explain how flesh nature is cut away.

 

[Magenta]

How does God change the heart? Magic or obedience?

Why do you introduce magic? Circumcision is not magic, though it makes obedience possible.

Just as Scripture says: so you MAY love God. Obedience born of understanding
trumps following the letter of the law when your heart is not in it.

 

[cv5]

πονηρός (poneros, G4190)
κακός (kakos G2556)
G5337 φαῦλος phaulos


The answer is in your post. Circumcision of the heart is just figurative language for cleansing of the heart because physical circumcision is more hygienic than uncircumcision.

What happens when the heart is cleansed? The holy spirit can now live inside of it

What happens when the holy spirit is in our hearts 24/7 forever? We receive continual, intimate instruction and guidance from God on how to walk and please him.

That is the transformation. Nothing has changed about our physical nature or soul; we have simply received the life of God in our hearts because he has dealt with the issues that caused him to depart from man in the garden

All of this predicated upon saying YES to the MARRIAGE OFFER of the Groom.

I am waiting for the crowing Greek wanna-be sophists to utter their arcane incantations intended to strip away ALL DIGNITY and HONOR from the both the Groom and the Bride. Tic toc tic toc.

 

[studier]

Self-learned

I commend you.

I may be asking you some questions you're not geared up for yet. But this is one of the reasons I ask - so I can get to know you.

Thanks.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Did Abram walk between the pieces or was he in a deep sleep? Or is there another time to which you refer?

It's not mentioned in the text, but he most likely did because he was there laying out the pieces, And why wouldn't he, it was a blood covenant between two parties?

 

[Magenta]

It's not mentioned in the text, but he most likely did because he was there laying
the pieces out, And why wouldn't he, it was a blood covenant between two parties?

How could he if he was in a deep sleep?

 

[cv5]

There were no terms to the covenant in Genesis 15; God made a promise and guaranteed it with a blood covenant. The covenant was in force once the covenant parties walked between the pieces. Circumcision came years later

Good grief man wake up.

[Gen 15:18 NKJV]
On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates--

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

How could he if he was in a deep sleep?

He killed the animals, laid them out and drove away birds that were trying to eat the carcasses, so it was a while before God showed up.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Good grief man wake up.

[Gen 15:18 NKJV]
On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates--

I said God made a promise to Abraham. There were no terms or conditions that Abe had to fulfill

 

[Magenta]

He killed the animals, laid them out and drove away birds that were trying to eat the carcasses, so it was a while before God showed up.

Yes, that much is in the text... the last bit seems to be an assumption.

 

[cv5]

I said God made a promise to Abraham. There were no terms or conditions that Abe had to fulfill

Oh yes there was......definitely.

[Gen 15:6 NKJV]
And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.