Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

[Lafftur]

In the midst of all your bickering is love even present? Does It even have voice? If Love did have a voice, could you hear It? Would you understand what It is saying?

 

[Hevosmies]

In the midst of all your bickering is love even present? Does It even have voice? If Love did have a voice, could you hear It? Would you understand what It is saying?

This aint buddhism or new age religion. (then again maybe it is in the Joel Osteen/Oprah circles, loveydovey emotionally driven lets get along throw doctrine out the window and sing kumbaya around the camp fire while speaking "we are one" to the mirror. NOT SAYING you belong to those circles btw dear Lafftur. I usually like your posts. You remind me of some of the christian women in my family, very loving and positive and always UPLIFTING. I could learn that from you. much love)

Its CHRISTIANITY.

Talking about doctrines is A-okay. Even debating is a-okay, Read acts 15, they done did it in the Bible. Paul also reasoned in the synagogues with the jews.

 

[Lafftur]

This aint buddhism or new age religion. (then again maybe it is in the Joel Osteen/Oprah circles, loveydovey emotionally driven lets get along throw doctrine out the window and sing kumbaya around the camp fire while speaking "we are one" to the mirror. NOT SAYING you belong to those circles btw dear Lafftur. I usually like your posts. You remind me of some of the christian women in my family, very loving and positive and always UPLIFTING. I could learn that from you. much love)

Its CHRISTIANITY.

Talking about doctrines is A-okay. Even debating is a-okay, Read acts 15, they done did it in the Bible. Paul also reasoned in the synagogues with the jews.

But “why” was Paul reasoning in the synagogues?

 

[Lafftur]

This aint buddhism or new age religion. (then again maybe it is in the Joel Osteen/Oprah circles, loveydovey emotionally driven lets get along throw doctrine out the window and sing kumbaya around the camp fire while speaking "we are one" to the mirror. NOT SAYING you belong to those circles btw dear Lafftur. I usually like your posts. You remind me of some of the christian women in my family, very loving and positive and always UPLIFTING. I could learn that from you. much love)

Its CHRISTIANITY.

Talking about doctrines is A-okay. Even debating is a-okay, Read acts 15, they done did it in the Bible. Paul also reasoned in the synagogues with the jews.

But, after all the bickering, is there any fruit? Is there life? Is there a changed heart that leads to a life of righteousness?

Where is the fruit of all this doctrinal bickering?

 

[Hevosmies]

But, after all the bickering, is there any fruit? Is there life? Is there a changed heart that leads to a life of righteousness?

Where is the fruit of all this doctrinal bickering?

I dont know tbh. I HOPE the fruit is: Someone changes their minds. One thing I do know is I did apologize recently on this thread since I caught myself going TOO unChrist like. I'll try to do better! I guess you could say its a good way to learn DISCIPLINE on how to behave in situations like that?

i know I have changed my mind about things in the past by listening to debates. BUT I have to say: They were not done on a forum attacking each other, they were MODERATED debates with each person having a certain time to make their point, then counters, then cross-examination. etc. So it was a lot more civil!

I do enjoy debating doctrines I AINT GONE LIE, i learn and get entertainment from it. If that makes me toxic I guess I am lol. Then again I am very much of a FREAK, I actually would rather watch an HOUR sermon on a topic I care about rather than a MOVIE.

Im the guy in church who CANT WAIT for the sermon to start! I dont mind singing if its to a good MARCHING BEAT, none of them sad songs, oldschool MARCHING BEAT hymns and praise songs, WOOO! That makes me scream (i mean sing) at the top of my lungs. LORD help those next to me

 

[Absolutely]

In the midst of all your bickering is love even present? Does It even have voice? If Love did have a voice, could you hear It? Would you understand what It is saying?

True
Things can get outta hand
But it is a forum,and my goal is to contend for the faith,which means if i see things said outside the written word,I am compelled to push against those things.
It can be done in a civil manner.

 

[Guojing]

Tell me how do you understand it then? I understand it as: Its better for you to lose an arm rather than be cast into hell with both arms, thats how scary hell is. And if you're tempted to sin you're better off cutting your arm off or eye than engaging in sin. Shows you how much God hates sin!

BTW @Guojing I read back my post to you and I have to say man to man I AM SORRY. I spoke too harshly and made too many ASSUMPTIONS about things you did not even SAY (atleast yet ) and I got too arrogant and SNAPPY, VERY unChristlike and stupid behavior on my part. AND FOR THAT I apologize and repent in front of GOD and YOU and all the rest of the folks who had to witness that, I come from the mean streets and I got a SHORT FUSE, its no excuse though! Now sometimes such posts are WARRANTED such as when someone is preaching torah for salvation and things, but you didnt deserve that. HOPE you can still answer my question ^above there, how do you see that verse you posted?

One more thing: Can you atleast come meet me midway and agree that SOME of Jesus' teachings are for today? I mean ALL Scripture is profitable, not just Paul's epistles! It says that in Paul's epistles too @ 2 Timothy 3:16.
I come meet you there too and agree that OBVIOUSLY not everything Jesus said in His earthly ministry applies to the Church, SUCH AS: Obeying all that the Pharisees tell you to do since they are sitting in Moses' seat and "go and give a sacrifice" AND SO ON!

If you are willing to interpret that Jesus teaching directly and meant it, you have my respect.

I love the parables of Jesus, especially the parable of the prodigal son. Jesus teaching about the parable of the unjust steward also held great lessons on how we should managed our finances.

So yeah, of course, I agree that we can learn the principles behind those parables.

 

[Hevosmies]

If you are willing to interpret that Jesus teaching directly and meant it, you have my respect.

I love the parables of Jesus, especially the parable of the prodigal son. Jesus teaching about the parable of the unjust steward also held great lessons on how we should managed our finances.

So yeah, of course, I agree that we can learn the principles behind those parables.

Thanks

How do you see Matthew 18:9?

 

[Guojing]

Thanks

How do you see Matthew 18:9?

I read it literally like you. But of course, I see it as a lesson for the Jews during that time period only.

When Jesus was walking on Earth, he had the sign gift of healing. He could heal all who came to him (Acts 10:38) He used this sign gift to testify to doubting John the Baptist that he was indeed their promised Messiah (Luke 7:22)

When Jesus was preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom to the Jews, in order for the Jews to be saved, they had to believe in him as their promised Messiah AND keep the law (Matt 5:19-20)

So his main point to the Jews in that teaching then was this, "If having 2 eyes means you have to break some part of the law, such as the law against looking at a woman in lust as I have explained, its better for you to cut one off and just make it into the Kingdom by the skin of your teeth. Once you made it, I as your promised King can easily restore both your eyes once again."

 

[garee]

Asses are considered as unclean in cerimoinal law used to represent unbelief .

Sounds like a saved man to me:

1 Samuel 10:6-9 [NIV]
The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person. Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.
“Go down ahead of me to Gilgal. I will surely come down to you to sacrifice burnt offerings and fellowship offerings, but you must wait seven days until I come to you and tell you what you are to do.”
As Saul turned to leave Samuel, God changed Saul’s heart, and all these signs were fulfilled that day.

I would offer first and foremost. God is not served with human hands in any shape or form . It is God who works in us to both will and do his good pleasure. He is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases.

The Spirit of God the calmed the Sea came powerfully and moved the false prophet Saul to show he fulfills the signs. God changed Saul’s heart and not Saul having a change of his own heart.

God can use a unbeliever to perform his will of planting the seed (gospel) and watering it with the doctrines of God that fall like rain from heaven. He in the end of the matter causes the growth if there is any.

Asses are considered as unclean in ceremonial laws. They are used to represent unbelief, natural unredeemed mankind . When born if not redeemed with a lamb the neck is to be broken .

To show he is not served with human hands. The Holy Spirit sets a side a historallly true parable to represent he is not served by human hands. . . preventing the madness of another false prophet Balaam . Putting his words in the mouth of Ass.. . again to represent unbelief.

Exodus 13:13And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.

Numbers 22:28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

 

[garee]

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. Matt 18:9

People who claim to be against dispensationalism don't like this passage. They spiritualize it and interpret it allegorically, "Gotta love that gimmick"

Tell me which gimmick is worse?

Its a parable not a gimmick .Why would a person not look to the spiritual understanding hid from literalist ?

 

[Guojing]

Its a parable not a gimmick .Why would a person not look to the spiritual understanding hid from literalist ?

You consider the sermon of the mount as a parable?

 

[Absolutely]

But “why” was Paul reasoning in the synagogues?

He wanted them to meet the one he met. His perspective had radically done a 180.
He knew they would attack him. He knew exactly what they thought. He was lead of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Adstar]

I don't think it can get much clearer Matt.23:39.......from now on you will not see Me until you say

Well i disagree with your interpretation of what it is saying.. Such is life..

 

[Guojing]

Well i disagree with your interpretation of what it is saying.. Such is life..

Wouldn't what Paul stated in Romans 11 made it clear?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

You don't believe that ALL Israel will be saved?

 

[Adstar]

Wouldn't what Paul stated in Romans 11 made it clear?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

You don't believe that ALL Israel will be saved?

Let me ask you then.. How is one saved? What must one do to be saved?

 

[Guojing]

Let me ask you then.. How is one saved? What must one do to be saved?

Believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose again as a sign that you are justified. (Romans 4:24-25, Romans 10:9, 1 Cor 15:1-4)

 

[Adstar]

Believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose again as a sign that you are justified. (Romans 4:24-25, Romans 10:9, 1 Cor 15:1-4)

So you believe all Israel will be saved yet many generations of them have rejected Jesus as their Messiah, Many of them believing Jesus was an evil sorcerer for the last 2000 years? So how can all the dead Jews be saved when the majority of them down though the generations rejected Jesus as their Messiah...

 

[tanakh]

The argument concerning Jews and Gentiles comes about because of a lack of understanding as to what the Bibles message is to us.
Gods aim is to bring the whole of humanity back in fellowship with him in New Heavens and a New Earth. God chose Abraham in order to form a Nation that would be his witness to the rest of the world and through Christ bring us all back into the relationship that Adam lost. The story of Israel is the story of every one of us in our journey back from the slavery of sin to unity with God. Its a story that is told using allegories types and symbols of people places and situations. Jesus was the embodiment of the scriptures
that's why he said that they were all about him. The Church is an extension of Israel. The real Israel is spiritual and everyone who is in Christ is part of it. The Church is a physical manifestation of the spiritual reality. In fact all physical things are manifestations of God. As Paul said In him we live and move and have our being. Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is within you not a place in the middle east. Whatever race or Gender we are there are only two positions We are either in Christ or not. We are either part of the kingdom or not Christ is the only way to salvation.

 

[Guojing]

So you believe all Israel will be saved yet many generations of them have rejected Jesus as their Messiah, Many of them believing Jesus was an evil sorcerer for the last 2000 years? So how can all the dead Jews be saved when the majority of them down though the generations rejected Jesus as their Messiah...

If your only concern is for those that have passed away before Jesus return for them again, well I think it might be the case of them being in some "limbo place", similar to how the OT saints were supposedly in Abraham's bosom, a kind of paradise, before Jesus went to preach to them after he was crucified.

But we don't know how exactly that is gonna happen. If Paul stated that "all Israel will be saved because God's covenant with Abraham is irrevocable, I can accept that to be the truth. The Jews can really thank their father Abraham for that.