Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?
- Thread starter Lillywolf
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Beign members of the Body of Yeshua in this age, we cotinue as He did, obeying the law according to how He teaches it is.
He has made the vast majority of the laws unnecessary for His Body members to continue in, but we are to obey all laws which are merciful and in the make-up of love.
Anyone who has learned from Jesus Christ would never teach against the law, his ne character obeys because the remain, though also in print, are on our hearts.
In order to attract more to Jesus Christ we must be as much as He as is given us to be possible.
Do not teach against the law, it is here while there is a heaven and earth, perhaps longer…...I do know Love is eternal.
So many people agree with you that the law is futile. They based this on the fact that God is a Holy God who has the law as part of His very being so no human can obey law enough to be saved by God. For that the law is futile.
But to me the law, other than that one fact, is everything the 119th psalm tells us it is. Just to begin with this scripture describing the everlasting law it tells us the law is wonderful, truth, precious, better than gold, trustworthy, and everlasting. It preserves life, frees us, gives comfort, makes us wise, and gives us good judgment. This is a partial list.
All of the laws that our governments have are based on these laws for even atheist know they make our world work. Yet, for the Christians the law is only to convince us of guilt, obedience to it only makes us wrongly feel self righteous, and it is only legalistic and given to us as hard mean rules that destroys love.
Paul's letters often discuss the problem of law bringing out ways it can be used wrong but every single time the letters conclude with the truth of the law in the 119th psalm, telling us to obey. Few Christians speak of this conclusion, only that the law is a negative to be avoided. I don't think they are right.
I think the conclusion Christians have made that the law is to be avoided and is wrong is saying God is wrong and kills the Christ spirit that should be within them.
But to me the law, other than that one fact, is everything the 119th psalm tells us it is. Just to begin with this scripture describing the everlasting law it tells us the law is wonderful, truth, precious, better than gold, trustworthy, and everlasting. It preserves life, frees us, gives comfort, makes us wise, and gives us good judgment. This is a partial list.
All of the laws that our governments have are based on these laws for even atheist know they make our world work. Yet, for the Christians the law is only to convince us of guilt, obedience to it only makes us wrongly feel self righteous, and it is only legalistic and given to us as hard mean rules that destroys love.
Paul's letters often discuss the problem of law bringing out ways it can be used wrong but every single time the letters conclude with the truth of the law in the 119th psalm, telling us to obey. Few Christians speak of this conclusion, only that the law is a negative to be avoided. I don't think they are right.
I think the conclusion Christians have made that the law is to be avoided and is wrong is saying God is wrong and kills the Christ spirit that should be within them.
I am sorry Jaumel, to post how I think about the law in response to you. You promote the law more than any other poster, my antenna went up over "Jesus fulfilled the law". As I reread your post I think you meant it as scripture has it: that Jesus is the lamb of Passover given for our salvation. So many read this as saying that the law is over and done with, that Jesus changed the written law because Jesus explained it to us better than ever before. They read that Jesus fulfilled as saying that Jesus put a stop to the law when Jesus added love to what was written.
Do you know what the law states? Here it is. Maimonides gathered them together since they are scattered throughout the Torah. There are 613 of them. They are divided in many ways. All, men, women, location only etc. etc. Just try keeping them perfectly. Only Jesus did it.
In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.
List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html
Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.
List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html
Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
-
1
- Show all
7
I have studied the OT and continue to do so. you need the foundation to better understand the New Covenant
I wonder why law keepers continue to bash the New Covenant
perhaps studying that, will help people to understand why we are no longer and were never...under OT law
no one in this forum has EVER taught against the law as far as I know. it is just you folks making up stories
it would seem that some have only the 4 gospels and maybe...maybe...Revelation in their scriptures
people need to understand that many if not most, Sabbath keepers/law keepers, do not hold much of the NT in the same regard as the rest of the Bible...especially Paul. some actually think that anything in scripture written or purported to be written by Paul, as spurious
7
no actually that is not true
we understand that Jesus fulfilled the obligations of the law and presented to His Father a sinless and perfect sacrifice and the matter of the law and animal sacrifice is no longer in effect...unless someone puts themself back under it. all non-believers are still answerable to God in the sense that they have not been forgiven of their sins
understand that Jaume seems to either misunderstand, or deliberately continues to actually create posts that are not very truthful with regards to those who oppose his stance on the law.
Jesus actually fulfilled the obligations of the law which is something law keepers cannot seem to wrap their heads around
further, they continue in their confusion by stating that we have no regard for the commandments of God and do not believe we are accountable for our sin
actually, we are no longer accountable for our sin, but not because we think sinning does not matter, but because God no longer sees our sin
either Jesus is our High Priest or He isn't.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Try again after reading what Jesus stated. This is how he teaches us it is.
ALL OF THE LAW! Do you know what the law states?
Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.
List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html
Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
ALL OF THE LAW! Do you know what the law states?
Matthew 5 AMPC
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.
List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html
Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
-
1
- Show all
K
Endoscopy, I am only replying to the bolded, and for reason I read what you state time and again in CC.....but this is what the scriptures say:
Luke 1:
5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.
Just wondering what can you respond to this?
Luke 1:
5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly.
Just wondering what can you respond to this?
Paul and Jesus are quite clear on the mater of the law. The law was put in place to show us just how sinful we actually are. We are sin.
With out the aid of a savior we have no hope of salvation.
God sends in Jesus at just the right time to be that savior!
He died on the cross for our behalf so that through him we may have eternal life with God.
That new life we now have can gain nothing through the law. In fact the law is apposed to our new way of life. Love is the answer. Love of God and love of neighbor. A mind focused on how to love needs no law dictating good from bad.
With out the aid of a savior we have no hope of salvation.
God sends in Jesus at just the right time to be that savior!
He died on the cross for our behalf so that through him we may have eternal life with God.
That new life we now have can gain nothing through the law. In fact the law is apposed to our new way of life. Love is the answer. Love of God and love of neighbor. A mind focused on how to love needs no law dictating good from bad.
I hate to disillusion you but that is past history and not current law. The LBGT etc. crowd has laws on the books about discrimination taking it to you are not allowed to express a negative opinion on them since that is considered hate speech. This goes state by state. This country is almost completely secular today. The big protestant denominations were taken over by secular ministers who only want access to the church money. Gary North wrote a book about the take over of Presbyterian USA in 1932. It started in the 1880s. He stated in his book that the rest of the 7 sister large protestant denominations were taken over at the same time. Almost half of the people in the country attend church but only a fraction ever hear the gospel message.
I agree with the rest of your post.
I agree with the rest of your post.
i don't think you understand grace. it is not something that insulates from all other human activity. it is designed t
READ scripture. it does not say nothing can separate us from our salvation. it says nothing can separate us from the LOVE of God. You have missed the point of what is taught in the NT. None can keep all the law. That is the reason we need a savior. But you confuse coming to Christ and living in the Holy Spirit. We can throw scripture at each other all day. The point is your position is just as extreme as those who would claim based on John 5 and Matthew 25 that we are saved by works. Saving faith and works go together. Respectfully, it is not about works, it is about your misuse of grace.
Listen to what you preach. Understand the LOGIC of what you say. Since no work (bad or good) of a human affects your salvation, those Christians who say they can live in sin are absolutely right according to what you preach because nothing a human does has any effect on their salvation. Is this really the message you want to preach before God?
READ scripture. it does not say nothing can separate us from our salvation. it says nothing can separate us from the LOVE of God. You have missed the point of what is taught in the NT. None can keep all the law. That is the reason we need a savior. But you confuse coming to Christ and living in the Holy Spirit. We can throw scripture at each other all day. The point is your position is just as extreme as those who would claim based on John 5 and Matthew 25 that we are saved by works. Saving faith and works go together. Respectfully, it is not about works, it is about your misuse of grace.
Listen to what you preach. Understand the LOGIC of what you say. Since no work (bad or good) of a human affects your salvation, those Christians who say they can live in sin are absolutely right according to what you preach because nothing a human does has any effect on their salvation. Is this really the message you want to preach before God?
-
1
- Show all
7
oh hello. do I know you? let's see...hmmm...you just joined.
I don't know you at all
you also do not know me at all and so you have gone off in all directions railing against me
btw, I am not a preacher nor do I preach. ya got that wrong too
one more btw: there is a thread you will absolutely love and you will never be the same after joining it
here ya go: Not by Works
it is almost 4000 pages long and I promise you (and I'm not known for making promises cause they are too easy to break but in this case, I am making a promise) you will have all the talk about works, salvation and all that, that one person can stand in a lifetime
I suspect it was made just for people like you
oh hello. do I know you? let's see...hmmm...you just joined.
I don't know you at all
you also do not know me at all and so you have gone off in all directions railing against me
btw, I am not a preacher nor do I preach. ya got that wrong too
one more btw: there is a thread you will absolutely love and you will never be the same after joining it
here ya go: Not by Works
it is almost 4000 pages long and I promise you (and I'm not known for making promises cause they are too easy to break but in this case, I am making a promise) you will have all the talk about works, salvation and all that, that one person can stand in a lifetime
I suspect it was made just for people like you
I don't know you at all
you also do not know me at all and so you have gone off in all directions railing against me
btw, I am not a preacher nor do I preach. ya got that wrong too
one more btw: there is a thread you will absolutely love and you will never be the same after joining it
here ya go: Not by Works
it is almost 4000 pages long and I promise you (and I'm not known for making promises cause they are too easy to break but in this case, I am making a promise) you will have all the talk about works, salvation and all that, that one person can stand in a lifetime
I suspect it was made just for people like you