Why did JESUS say all manner of sin and >--blasphemy<-- will be forgiven but blasphemy of the HOLY SPIRIT will not be forgiven?

[infinitekhanol]

Matthew 12:31-32
King James Version

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

My take on this

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.------- 1John 5:6

Jesus said, he will send the Holy Spirit to teach and guide "us" into all truth ---John 16:13, 15:26. 14:26. When we blaspheme the Holy Spirit, how do we know and accept the truth? Our blasphemy connotes rejection of truth stemming from unbelief. The Pharisees believed albeit wrongly that Jesus power to heal and cast out devil came from the devil himself, as a result, they rejected and refused to believe in him.

Jesus said what he said because, as he told us in John 3:19, when one does not believe in him, he is already condemned because light was manifested to him, but he chose darkness instead. Part of the teaching and guidance of the Holy Spirit is to remind us of Christ Jesus and his works ( John 14:26) - that Light that came into the world. So, when we reject the truth of the Holy Spirit working through the power of the Cross, what other hope have we?

God's forgiveness remains available but how do you receive it when you have condemned yourself by choosing to permanently remain in falsehood. God does not force people against their will. ( And when he seems to, from our own perceptions, it is because he does not want any of his children to perish)

The scripture tells us that light came into the world, dwelt with them, came unto his own and his own received him not but as many as received him, to them he gave power to become the sons of God even to them that believe in him.---- John 1:1 -14. The Holy Spirit

 

[infinitekhanol]

Well, you must know what a spirit is in order to figure out what an evil spirit is.

She was possessed by Satan of course. Her desire being for one man, her husband, is just part of how God commanded her to break the spell (and the defiance of this command for women is a sign of being in the service of Satan). Genesis 3:6 shows the first demonic possession, right after the Three Lies are cast into her by the serpent her mind is bent and she looks at everything all wrong even though the Fall has not actually occurred yet. As the Lies run around in her mind she eats from the tree forbidden.

No, if someone lies then they are just doing the bidding of the Devil, serving in his spiritual kingdom, as per the verse "when the Devil speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies."
Yes, the serpent is the one called Satan and Devil, the Three Lies are the Original Sin and also are the power of the demons, and he will also never be forgiven for doing this.

Three lies under Adam and Eve temptation?. can you explain further please?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Where does 'possession' come into your argument.

I just see your posts on this tgread are full of nonsequitors--conclusions not justified by tge arguments you made.

I'm not making an argument, but nevertheless, the point is the possession of the woman by Satan happened how? Via the Three Lies. These are the demons and why their creation is the unforgiveable sin and also the original sin.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

Three lies under Adam and Eve temptation?. can you explain further please?

Again? Just read Genesis 3.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Again? Just read Genesis 3.

read it and still no clue

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

read it and still no clue

From verses 1-5 what do you see happen? In verse 6 what is the result of the action taken in verses 1-5?

 

[infinitekhanol]

From verses 1-5 what do you see happen? In verse 6 what is the result of the action taken in verses 1-5?

I actually saw one lie that has to do with pride of life

 

[presidente]

I'm not making an argument, but nevertheless, the point is the possession of the woman by Satan happened how? Via the Three Lies.

What do you mean by 'possession'? Do you mean the Serpent had some kind of legal ownership of the woman? If so, what scripture states that. The Bible teaches that the earth is the LORD's and everything in it.

Do you mean the woman was 'possessed' in the sense of being demonized? Where does the scripture teach that?

These are the demons and why their creation is the unforgiveable sin and also the original sin.

God is the creator, and God is not guilty of original sin. If demons are angels, God did not commit the unpardonable sin by creating angels that rebelled. If demons are the spirits of the Nephilim, there is no evidence that anyone in that passage spoke evil of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12 has to do with sins forgiven unto men, not that 'sons of God' of the Genesis 6 era.

I think you have your own definition of 'demon' that does not align with what a demon is in scripture. But it is hard to figure out what you are trying to say with your esoteric approach to conversation.

Also 'original sin' is a historical theological term that has to do with man's early sin and whether it is imputed to later descendants. Your use of the term in this context is confusing.

 

[presidente]

My take on this

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.------- 1John 5:6

Jesus said, he will send the Holy Spirit to teach and guide "us" into all truth ---John 16:13, 15:26. 14:26. When we blaspheme the Holy Spirit, how do we know and accept the truth? Our blasphemy connotes rejection of truth stemming from unbelief. The Pharisees believed albeit wrongly that Jesus power to heal and cast out devil came from the devil himself, as a result, they rejected and refused to believe in him.

Jesus said what he said because, as he told us in John 3:19, when one does not believe in him, he is already condemned because light was manifested to him, but he chose darkness instead. Part of the teaching and guidance of the Holy Spirit is to remind us of Christ Jesus and his works ( John 14:26) - that Light that came into the world. So, when we reject the truth of the Holy Spirit working through the power of the Cross, what other hope have we?

God's forgiveness remains available but how do you receive it when you have condemned yourself by choosing to permanently remain in falsehood. God does not force people against their will. ( And when he seems to, from our own perceptions, it is because he does not want any of his children to perish)

The scripture tells us that light came into the world, dwelt with them, came unto his own and his own received him not but as many as received him, to them he gave power to become the sons of God even to them that believe in him.---- John 1:1 -14. The Holy Spirit

The unforgivable sin in Mark 3 and Matthew 12 has to do with speaking. It is 'blasphemy.' Blasphemy in English has to do with speaking evil of what is holy. It translates a Greek word that has to do with speaking against, vilifying.

Neither in Greek nor English do the words mean 'to die in unbelief', 'to continue in unbelief' or 'never to believe.' They don't mean 'reject' or 'not accept.'

__Maybe__ blasphemy can extend to the written word.

Continuing in unbelief is not the unpardonable sin because one could continue in unbelief for a while and repent. Saul/Paul went through a period of unbelief. Dying in unbelief is not a sin, because dying isn't a sin. Jesus died. Stephen died. That wasn't sinful. The unbelief part is the sin part of 'dying in unbelief' and one can be forgiven through Christ of unbelief if he does so before death.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

What can corrupt a man If It comes In and goes out without changing the man's heart.If what comes Into him changes his HEART THEN It has changed him.
Mark 7:15
King James Version

There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

 

[infinitekhanol]

The unforgivable sin in Mark 3 and Matthew 12 has to do with speaking. It is 'blasphemy.' Blasphemy in English has to do with speaking evil of what is holy. It translates a Greek word that has to do with speaking against, vilifying.

Neither in Greek nor English do the words mean 'to die in unbelief', 'to continue in unbelief' or 'never to believe.' They don't mean 'reject' or 'not accept.'

__Maybe__ blasphemy can extend to the written word.

Continuing in unbelief is not the unpardonable sin because one could continue in unbelief for a while and repent. Saul/Paul went through a period of unbelief. Dying in unbelief is not a sin, because dying isn't a sin. Jesus died. Stephen died. That wasn't sinful. The unbelief part is the sin part of 'dying in unbelief' and one can be forgiven through Christ of unbelief if he does so before death.

For me I think it is very simple. Speaking evil of that which is holy comes from unbelief. if one believes, he will not speak evil of that. And that unbelief or the evil mind leads to an action. If the Pharisees believed, they would not have made the statement they made. And because they did not believe, they did not accept the words and works of Jesus. The issue is not just the word spoken. We need to look at other key elements in that spoken word like the cause and effect.

If someone willfully, knowingly and willingly chooses darkness over light . There is no forgiveness. No amount of prayer fasting or intercession that can result to forgiveness. He has condemned himself and will bear the consequences. Repentance gives him forgiveness but not for that willful act he knowingly committed for the punishment must be fully served.

Death is the wages of sin as bible says. And dying in unbelief is definitely a sin depending on how you look at it --- whether a mortal or venial sin , either way it is a sin. --- For mortal and venial sin, see 1John 5:16 -18

 

[presidente]

If someone willfully, knowingly and willingly chooses darkness over light . There is no forgiveness. No amount of prayer fasting or intercession that can result to forgiveness. He has condemned himself and will bear the consequences. Repentance gives him forgiveness but not for that willful act he knowingly committed for the punishment must be fully served.

So if someone knowingly and wilingly chooses darkness, then repents and believes in Jesus, do you not believe that He can be forgiven?

Do you believe former witches and Satanists who become Christians aren't real Christians?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

I actually saw one lie that has to do with pride of life

How do you only see one? Do you assume the other two sentences that Satan speaks are true? Far be it, every time Satan speaks in the Bible he is lying, that is why he is called the Devil.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

What do you mean by 'possession'? Do you mean the Serpent had some kind of legal ownership of the woman? If so, what scripture states that. The Bible teaches that the earth is the LORD's and everything in it.

Do you mean the woman was 'possessed' in the sense of being demonized? Where does the scripture teach that?



God is the creator, and God is not guilty of original sin. If demons are angels, God did not commit the unpardonable sin by creating angels that rebelled. If demons are the spirits of the Nephilim, there is no evidence that anyone in that passage spoke evil of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12 has to do with sins forgiven unto men, not that 'sons of God' of the Genesis 6 era.

I think you have your own definition of 'demon' that does not align with what a demon is in scripture. But it is hard to figure out what you are trying to say with your esoteric approach to conversation.

Also 'original sin' is a historical theological term that has to do with man's early sin and whether it is imputed to later descendants. Your use of the term in this context is confusing.

Yes, Satan owned her via the Lies. She obeyed Satan's voice rather than God's voice. However, she did not directly disobey God outright or go out into the Garden that day looking to just outright turn against God obviously. She ate because the serpent committed the original sin by creating the Three Lies.

Well, how does one forge a Lie? Well via word and spirit, which is breath, of course. So, Satan does a very horrendous thing here in the spiritual actually when he creates the first Three Lies, the first sin remember too. He had to break the Spirit of Truth, by which all living creatures, including himself, were made by God in the beginning, in the first two chapters, made perfect by God at that and made in the truth. Remember Jesus interestingly says of Satan that he did not abide in the truth from the beginning, so he departed from truth, literally stopped living in the truth and became the father of lies. With the Three Lies the serpent overcame the woman's mind and possessed her to the point that she ate the fruit forbidden, and also gave it to the man, who is the image of God, to kill him. This is where the demons came from, which are evil spirits, also called devils too whereas their creator, the Devil (which means the Liar) is the serpent and how he got that name.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I'm new here but was reminded by this thread of a couple sermons I recently heard on the subject. I'll just post this 1 minute short for those interested. It's not nearly as detailed as you all are getting into, but it's a quick reference.

 

[infinitekhanol]

So if someone knowingly and wilingly chooses darkness, then repents and believes in Jesus, do you not believe that He can be forgiven?

Do you believe former witches and Satanists who become Christians aren't real Christians?

Repentance gives him forgiveness but not for that willful act he knowingly committed for the punishment must be fully served.

Repentance goes with sincerity or integrity of heart. So, my specific answer to your question is it depends.

I am thinking that, my post which you responded to, is enough to give overall answer to your question most especially the reading in 1 John5:16 - 18. Notwithstanding, I believe it boils down to the heart.

1. there is a heart that is willfully wicked, finds pleasure and rejoices in wickedness. Shine the light on him continually, he chooses iniquity over light. For the riches and pleasures of it have hardened his heart and blinded his eyes

2.there is a heart that is wicked out of ignorance

3.there is a heart we humans see as wicked but God sees otherwise.

4. there is a heart ------ -----

God judges the heart. It is their heart that will determine whether they are true Christians or not.

We must not fail to relate the consequences of sin to the multiplication and extent of it. When we sin, there is always a call for repentance and God gives space to repent. When we do not heed to that call, and instead continue to multiply by dwelling more in that sin, a time comes when our cup of iniquity will be full (only God knows the time) and then we must serve out the consequences of our action whether we repent or not.

We will of course be forgiven if we repent but that repentance will not remove the consequences of our action once the time is ripe and judgement pronounced. This stands true whether in the OT or NT.
You can see this in

a. God's dealings with Israelites of old
b. the case of Cain
c. the case of David and Uriah
d. the case of Apostle Paul
e others mentioned in the scripture

 

[infinitekhanol]

How do you only see one? Do you assume the other two sentences that Satan speaks are true? Far be it, every time Satan speaks in the Bible he is lying, that is why he is called the Devil.

I seem to be lost here. What other two sentences? The devil's lie is captured in verse 5. -- KJV.

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

I seem to be lost here. What other two sentences? The devil's lie is captured in verse 5. -- KJV.

Verse 1 introduces Satan and what he is and his origin. In this same verse he tells the First Lie saying crookedly that God said she has freewill to eat any of the trees. Verse 2 and 3 the woman correctly replies back that God actually said they can eat any of the trees except for the tree forbidden, and if they do eat from it, they will die, which is indeed what God said. Verse 4 the Devil spouts the Second Lie saying that she certainly won't die for eating from the tree. Verse 5 is the Third Lie and the Devil tells her that God doesn't want her to eat from the tree because if she eats from the tree she will become like God. All taken together the Three Lies overrun her mind and convince her to eat the tree and give to her man also in verse 6, the Fatal Verse.

 

[infinitekhanol]

Verse 1 introduces Satan and what he is and his origin. In this same verse he tells the First Lie saying crookedly that God said she has freewill to eat any of the trees. Verse 2 and 3 the woman correctly replies back that God actually said they can eat any of the trees except for the tree forbidden, and if they do eat from it, they will die, which is indeed what God said. Verse 4 the Devil spouts the Second Lie saying that she certainly won't die for eating from the tree. Verse 5 is the Third Lie and the Devil tells her that God doesn't want her to eat from the tree because if she eats from the tree she will become like God. All taken together the Three Lies overrun her mind and convince her to eat the tree and give to her man also in verse 6, the Fatal Verse.

Well, what I am seeing in verse 1 after the introduction of the serpent is a question posed to Eve by the serpent and not a statement as you tried to point out.

Verse 4 shows the devil's statement of lie. Verses 4 and 5 are taken together as the lie of the devil. Why is it so? Let's look at it this way. God told Adam, do not eat this fruit. why? because you will die the day you eat of it. Satan says to Eve after she answered his question, you will not die. why? because God knows that your eyes will be opened and you will become as gods knowing good and evil the day you eat it, which was a reason he gave to prove to her that they will not surely die. So, the lie of the devil is --saying and showing to prove that God lied which he, having being once an angel of light knows that God can never lie. He had the understanding of the truth but stood against the truth and continues to stand against the truth. He lied to deceive. Guile was found in him.

Verse 5 is not really a lie but truth laced in falsehood in order to deceive. The same trick he used during one of Jesus's temptation.

St Paul warns us of the wiles of the devil.

 

[Funkus]

If Eve was possessed then so was Adam since the enemy would be speaking through Eve to him it's no different than the enemy going straight to Adam. If Adam wasn't possessed but Eve was then Adam is merely deceived, then why couldn't Eve be merely deceived?
Is there any real difference between being deceived and possessed though, i could see the two being comparable
But there isn't grounds to place greater blame to either one of them, if anything a suspicion if Adam and Eve had been together they would have been strong enough to resist but not either one alone. That nets out to equal blame