Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Another consideration:
[taken from BibleHub... under Commentaries... quoting excerpt]
"and to seal vision and prophet] i.e. to set the seal to them, to ratify and confirm the prophets’ predictions, the figure (cf. John 3:33; John 6:27) being derived from the custom of affixing a seal to a document, in order to guarantee its genuineness (Jeremiah 32:10-11; Jeremiah 32:44). The close of the 70 weeks will bring with it the confirmation of the prophetic utterances (such as those just quoted) respecting a blissful future.
"A.V., R.V., ‘seal up,’ means to close up, preclude from activity, the sense of the expression, upon this view, being supposed to be that, prophecies being fulfilled, prophet and vision will be needed no more."
--Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/daniel/9-24.htm
[end quoting]
____________
I'm not sure... but I do not see the definite article ('the') with "prophecy" in v.24... as you have it ^
https://biblehub.com/text/daniel/9-24.htm
[this is why I see the explanation I quoted making more sense than what you've stated
]
[taken from BibleHub... under Commentaries... quoting excerpt]
"and to seal vision and prophet] i.e. to set the seal to them, to ratify and confirm the prophets’ predictions, the figure (cf. John 3:33; John 6:27) being derived from the custom of affixing a seal to a document, in order to guarantee its genuineness (Jeremiah 32:10-11; Jeremiah 32:44). The close of the 70 weeks will bring with it the confirmation of the prophetic utterances (such as those just quoted) respecting a blissful future.
"A.V., R.V., ‘seal up,’ means to close up, preclude from activity, the sense of the expression, upon this view, being supposed to be that, prophecies being fulfilled, prophet and vision will be needed no more."
--Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/daniel/9-24.htm
[end quoting]
____________
I'm not sure... but I do not see the definite article ('the') with "prophecy" in v.24... as you have it ^
https://biblehub.com/text/daniel/9-24.htm
[this is why I see the explanation I quoted making more sense than what you've stated
]-
2
- Show all
Another consideration:
[taken from BibleHub... under Commentaries... quoting excerpt]
"and to seal vision and prophet] i.e. to set the seal to them, to ratify and confirm the prophets’ predictions, the figure (cf. John 3:33; John 6:27) being derived from the custom of affixing a seal to a document, in order to guarantee its genuineness (Jeremiah 32:10-11; Jeremiah 32:44). The close of the 70 weeks will bring with it the confirmation of the prophetic utterances (such as those just quoted) respecting a blissful future.
"A.V., R.V., ‘seal up,’ means to close up, preclude from activity, the sense of the expression, upon this view, being supposed to be that, prophecies being fulfilled, prophet and vision will be needed no more."
--Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/daniel/9-24.htm
[end quoting]
__________
I'm not sure... but I do not see the definite article ('the') with "prophecy" in v.24... as you have it ^
https://biblehub.com/text/daniel/9-24.htm
[this is why I see the explanation I quoted making more sense than what you've stated ]
[taken from BibleHub... under Commentaries... quoting excerpt]
"and to seal vision and prophet] i.e. to set the seal to them, to ratify and confirm the prophets’ predictions, the figure (cf. John 3:33; John 6:27) being derived from the custom of affixing a seal to a document, in order to guarantee its genuineness (Jeremiah 32:10-11; Jeremiah 32:44). The close of the 70 weeks will bring with it the confirmation of the prophetic utterances (such as those just quoted) respecting a blissful future.
"A.V., R.V., ‘seal up,’ means to close up, preclude from activity, the sense of the expression, upon this view, being supposed to be that, prophecies being fulfilled, prophet and vision will be needed no more."
--Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges - https://biblehub.com/commentaries/daniel/9-24.htm
[end quoting]
__________
I'm not sure... but I do not see the definite article ('the') with "prophecy" in v.24... as you have it ^
https://biblehub.com/text/daniel/9-24.htm
[this is why I see the explanation I quoted making more sense than what you've stated
]
Re the sealing and the revelation, it is the same concept as the tying and the unloosing.
(In fact the imagery of a knotted bag is for me easier to grasp).
Only Jesus can break the seals - i.e. make the revelation - in Revelation.
As for the "CUT OFF" phrase (re: "the Messiah the Prince")...
... see my Post #882 (continued in Post #883) of a different thread (page 45, there):
[scroll down a bit to start at the "[quoting old post]" part... and esp info further on down]
- https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4115642
... see my Post #882 (continued in Post #883) of a different thread (page 45, there):
[scroll down a bit to start at the "[quoting old post]" part... and esp info further on down]
- https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4115642
-
1
- Show all
E
But its not a messianic prophecy, thats the issue, To claim it is a messianic only is to take it out of context.
Daniel was not praying about the coming messiah, He prayed about the sin of the people and the fact the 70 years were almost completed and Israel had not yet repented.
Its a prophecy concerning Israel and her sin, and all prophecy related to her.
Daniel was not praying about the coming messiah, He prayed about the sin of the people and the fact the 70 years were almost completed and Israel had not yet repented.
Its a prophecy concerning Israel and her sin, and all prophecy related to her.
-
1
- Show all
E
He came and was cut off (killed) after the 69th week (As the prophet said, he will come on a donkey)
when he was killed only 69 weeks had been completed. There was no 70 weeks.
We have to go to other prophesies and his own words to determine when he returns. In jesus own words. He will return because if he did not no flesh would survive. this would be the end of the great tribulation period. or the second half of the final week. or as Gabriel puts it. the end of the consummation which is poured out on the desolate.
Dan 9: Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”
when he was killed only 69 weeks had been completed. There was no 70 weeks.
We have to go to other prophesies and his own words to determine when he returns. In jesus own words. He will return because if he did not no flesh would survive. this would be the end of the great tribulation period. or the second half of the final week. or as Gabriel puts it. the end of the consummation which is poured out on the desolate.
Dan 9: Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”
E
For all your research, you overlooked my key point: that the transgression of Israel is complete.
then why are they not living in the land? Why did the land get destroyed according to lev 26? Why are they still in sin?
I read your post. I just can not agree with it.
Remember, we must look at all prophecy
The below has not yet happened?
ez 37:
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
This is when Israel will make a complete end of her transgressions.
Yours is one way to view it, but not the only way. Remember, the Pharisees had very specific ways of interpreting the messianic prophecies, yet when the Messiah came along, He did not fit their preconceived ideas, and they didn't recognize Him. To me, the futurist approach to Daniel 9 suffers from exactly the same error.
-
1
- Show all
You are defining "everlasting righteousness" in a self-determined context when there is a different context given us. We are told this is a period of 70 Weeks--not 490 Years. What this means is that the Weeks are all consecutive, or they can not be considered to be a 70 Week period. If it is 69 Weeks separated by any length of time with the 70th Week, then they are two separate periods, a 69 Week period and a one Week period.
Furthermore, the 70th Week does not appear to be a full Week of 7 years, since we are told something happens in the midst of the Week. Even if the 70th Week is half a Week, it is still the 70th and last Week of the 70 Week period.
So in light of the fact this is a single consecutive period of 70 Weeks, the 70th Week *cannot* be a future period of time. It had to have been fulfilled in the time of Christ, who is cut off after the 69 Weeks, resulting in the termination of OT offerings in the midst of the 70th Week. Christ's death brought about the termination of OT sacrifices. And the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Abomination of Desolation follows soon after the completion of this 70 Week period. All of this was fulfilled in history.
And so, when we look at "everlasting righteousness," how are we to explain it as "brought in" in the time of Christ? Quite simply, Christ himself was the "everlasting righteousness" who appeared on behalf of human salvation. He said he was the way, the truth, and the life. As such, he was the epitome of "everlasting righteousness," or "eternal life." And this appearance did, in fact, take place at his 1st Coming.
Again, if the context is the 70th Week, we must ask how Christ's 1st appearing brought about an end to sin? We are told that his death on the cross, the sacrifice of the righteous for all human sin, brought about the eternal judgment of all sin on earth. This was a legal act, and not the full outcome of this judgment.
To "finish transgression" may have to do with the fact that Israel's sin was brought to complete maturity in the time of Christ, when they rejected him and allowed him to be crucified. This brought Israel's sin to the point of eternal judgment, not that the nation would be destroyed, but that all in Israel who reject Christ will be eternally cut off from Israel in the future.
And this fact was shown by God causing the religion of Israel to be completely destroyed under the Law, making all true worship take place through Christ. The temple was destroyed for all time, and Israel was scattered until the time when Christ will come back to bring spiritual restoration to the Jewish people.
Prophecy was fulfilled in the death of Christ. Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished." This didn't mean that there would be no more prophecy and no more fulfillment of prophecy. No, this just meant that Christ's death was the critical aspect by which all of God's promises would be fulfilled. To "seal" this vision is to warrantee that it would happen.
The early Church Fathers saw the "most Holy" as representative of Christ himself, since the temple had been rejected by Christ and devoted to destruction. And so, this "anointing" was God's selection of a new "holy place," namely Christ himself.
Furthermore, the 70th Week does not appear to be a full Week of 7 years, since we are told something happens in the midst of the Week. Even if the 70th Week is half a Week, it is still the 70th and last Week of the 70 Week period.
So in light of the fact this is a single consecutive period of 70 Weeks, the 70th Week *cannot* be a future period of time. It had to have been fulfilled in the time of Christ, who is cut off after the 69 Weeks, resulting in the termination of OT offerings in the midst of the 70th Week. Christ's death brought about the termination of OT sacrifices. And the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Abomination of Desolation follows soon after the completion of this 70 Week period. All of this was fulfilled in history.
And so, when we look at "everlasting righteousness," how are we to explain it as "brought in" in the time of Christ? Quite simply, Christ himself was the "everlasting righteousness" who appeared on behalf of human salvation. He said he was the way, the truth, and the life. As such, he was the epitome of "everlasting righteousness," or "eternal life." And this appearance did, in fact, take place at his 1st Coming.
Again, if the context is the 70th Week, we must ask how Christ's 1st appearing brought about an end to sin? We are told that his death on the cross, the sacrifice of the righteous for all human sin, brought about the eternal judgment of all sin on earth. This was a legal act, and not the full outcome of this judgment.
To "finish transgression" may have to do with the fact that Israel's sin was brought to complete maturity in the time of Christ, when they rejected him and allowed him to be crucified. This brought Israel's sin to the point of eternal judgment, not that the nation would be destroyed, but that all in Israel who reject Christ will be eternally cut off from Israel in the future.
And this fact was shown by God causing the religion of Israel to be completely destroyed under the Law, making all true worship take place through Christ. The temple was destroyed for all time, and Israel was scattered until the time when Christ will come back to bring spiritual restoration to the Jewish people.
Prophecy was fulfilled in the death of Christ. Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished." This didn't mean that there would be no more prophecy and no more fulfillment of prophecy. No, this just meant that Christ's death was the critical aspect by which all of God's promises would be fulfilled. To "seal" this vision is to warrantee that it would happen.
The early Church Fathers saw the "most Holy" as representative of Christ himself, since the temple had been rejected by Christ and devoted to destruction. And so, this "anointing" was God's selection of a new "holy place," namely Christ himself.
-
2
- Show all
E
Daniel is forbidden in Israel
Because messiah did not come in 69 weeks as prophesied.
And I know mine is not the only view. I am just explaining my view. and showing why I can not interpret your view. I am giving a second view.
Dan 9 has not been fulfilled. There was never an abomination fo desolation in AD 70. this alone shows that it could not be fulfilled. this is not to include everything else that has yet to happen.
Because messiah did not come in 69 weeks as prophesied.
And I know mine is not the only view. I am just explaining my view. and showing why I can not interpret your view. I am giving a second view.
Dan 9 has not been fulfilled. There was never an abomination fo desolation in AD 70. this alone shows that it could not be fulfilled. this is not to include everything else that has yet to happen.
No. I am not re-defining everlasting righteousness. So firstly let's see what Peter says about the New Heavens and the New Earth.
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (2 Pet 3:13)
What does this mean in practical terms? That all sin, evil, and corruption will be absent from the earth after the Great White Throne Judgment and after it has been supernaturally cleansed by fire. God will establish His literal Kingdom on earth through Christ and there must be everlasting righteousness on earth after that (particularly in Israel since Daniel speaks of Israel as "thy people").
This corresponds to Isaiah 61:11 and other Scriptures: For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.
In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. (Jer 33:16)
And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness. (Zech 8:8)
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. (2 Pet 3:13)
What does this mean in practical terms? That all sin, evil, and corruption will be absent from the earth after the Great White Throne Judgment and after it has been supernaturally cleansed by fire. God will establish His literal Kingdom on earth through Christ and there must be everlasting righteousness on earth after that (particularly in Israel since Daniel speaks of Israel as "thy people").
This corresponds to Isaiah 61:11 and other Scriptures: For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.
In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. (Jer 33:16)
And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness. (Zech 8:8)
Even if we use the [Traitor] Josephus' writings describing the 70 A.D. Events, he does not clarify the Sun turned black as night, the Moon turned to blood, or that Christ Returned. And if we want to be theoretical here, he does not even describe a single Event where the Man of Desolation sits upon the the Temple Throne and proclaims he is God before the Temple's destruction. For those claiming some are reading into scripture, it appears more likely that others are reading into the writings of Josephus.
Christ proclaimed the Events of the [Great Tribulation] would be like nothing that took place prior or afterwards. As a Veteran Member of the United States Military, I can promise what I've read from Josephus' writings compared to what I've seen is no comparison on a destructive level. When I hear/read others proclaiming 70 A.D. Destruction was the Great Tribulation like never nor ever seen before, I quickly realize how VERY LITTLE in experience those people are. And to be blunt, how inadequate their opinion is!
-
2
- Show all