Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind, the world, the whole world:


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Jesus Christ died only for that part of mankind that believe on Him because they were Justified by His Blood.

 

[brightfame52]

sure ... and I've got a bridge to sell you.

"that world" is the world in which you and I live at this time. If there were no "sin upon it", there would be no need for us to look forward to the world that is to come.

Revelation 21:

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

...

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


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Why dont you believe the world Christ Lambed for had its sin taken away ? It says so right here

Jn 1:29

Scripture tells us the Lord Jesus Christ is the lamb slain before the foundation of the world.

That does not mean the Lord Jesus Christ "put away the sins" of some sub-set of humanity (the "elect"). The Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of all descendants of Adam, the world, the whole world:


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Christ put away the sins of them He died for at the Cross. So they were Justified by the Cross before they were born. One doesnt have to be born in order for God to impute their sins to Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 5:12 tells us that through Adam, sin entered the world.

The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone sinned before they were born.


Romans 5:12 tells us that death passes to all because all sin.

The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone sinned before they were born.


Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.


Ezekiel 18:

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
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So do you believe men sinned in Adam before they had a physical being ? Yes or No please ?

 

[VARob]

The Jesus Christ I love and Worship died only for the Elect and it Justified them before God.

You should learn who the real Jesus Christ is.

 

[brightfame52]

sure ... and I've got a bridge to sell you.

"that world" is the world in which you and I live at this time. If there were no "sin upon it", there would be no need for us to look forward to the world that is to come.

Revelation 21:

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

...

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


.
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Why dont you believe the world Christ Lambed for had its sin taken away ? It says so right here

Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith does not justify. It is God Who justifies.





According to you, it makes no difference whether the "Justified" is conscious of whether he/she is justified cuz he/she is "elect".


Your dogma falls apart on so many levels when scrutinized under the light of Scripture.
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Yes it is God that Justifies, but because of that, God given Faith justifies in that it reveals to the Justified, their Justification in their minds and hearts to give peace. I have been witnessing this very thing to you for a very long time.

 

[brightfame52]

Now you have done a complete 180 from what you submitted in Post #1384

So do you now agree that all mankind has faith ... that mankind has the capacity to believe?





Faith is an inherent part of mankind. No one ... not even "Gods Elect" ... has faith "birthed in them". We can be weak in faith due to our rejection of truth; or we can be strong in faith.

When we do not reject truth, God strengthens the faith we do have so that we become strong in faith.

If we reject truth, God can also strengthen our unbelief as He did with pharaoh.

What Does It Mean to Be “Born of the Spirit?”​

​

The Bible says that it is necessary for human beings to be “born of the Spirit” if they want to know the true God and eventually get into heaven. This is not something optional. Rather it is absolutely necessary.​

​

We learn several things about “being born of the Spirit” from Scripture.​

​

First, each of us needs a spiritual rebirth before we can enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus called it being “born again.” As we have each been born physically we also need to be born spiritually.​

​

The reason we need this spiritual rebirth is because none of us can get to heaven based upon our good deeds. Indeed, our sin has separated us from the God of the Bible. Thus, no matter how good we may be, we will never be “good enough.”​

​

The new birth consists in believing in Jesus Christ as Savior. Faith must be placed in Him and Him alone. When we do this we become “born again.”​

​

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Com...hat-does-it-mean-to-be-born-of-the-spirit.cfm​

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So did you understand ? Man naturally has a faith, but not the Faith of Gods Elect which is the fruit of the Spirit and sanctification. See Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 which man naturally doesnt have.

 

[brightfame52]

There is no justification before faith as you have been shown over and over in this thread alone (as well as in other threads you have started).

The commentary you submitted in your Post #1399 consists of a conflation of verses in Scripture.

You ripped verses from the context in which they have been placed by the Author of Scripture.

You then manipulated the text to promote your erroneous dogma.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
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Yes it is Justification before God before Faith, since Christ died for people before they believe. Everyone Christ died for are automatically Justified before God as a benefit of Christs death.

You should learn who the real Jesus Christ is.

May God help you, because I serve the True Jesus.

 

[VARob]

May God help you, because I serve the True Jesus.

The True Jesus died for everyone.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You see one whom Christ died for does not need to be Justified by Faith in order to be Justified before God or in His sight, for to be Justified by faith is only to benefit the Justified one in knowing of his or her Justification before God, for it is only a necessary consequence of having been Justified before God by the sole obedience of Christ

sigh ... instead of using man's logic to make Scripture fit into your erroneous dogma, you need to bring your erroneous dogma into alignment with Scripture.

Wherever your dogma does not align with Scripture, get rid of the error. Just let go of it and trust God that your world will not crumble.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Once again Jesus Christ didn't die for every individual of mankind, yet He died for every and all Justified person within all mankind.

Scripture according to brightfame52:


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world all Justified person within all mankind.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world all Justified person within all mankind, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever all Justified person within all mankind believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world all Justified person within all mankind to condemn the world all Justified person within all mankind; but that the world all Justified person within all mankind through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world all Justified person within all mankind.


what a farce!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

Again all men are not given Faith

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
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[brightfame52]

The time of their Justification before God ?

What is, for those Christ died for, what is the time of their Justification before God ?

For those Christ died for, they are Justified before God, when God see's and accepts Christ's blood for the full satisfaction of all their sins against His Law and Justice; for that ransom blood shed for them did set them free from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13 and did purge them from all guilt of their sins Heb 1:3 and presents them for Christ's blood sake, blameless, unreprovable in His sight Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

And these results are are solely done by HIMSELF Heb 1:3, through the body of His Flesh,

No other causes of collaboration were needed or used to bring about these blessed and merciful results ! 11

 

[brightfame52]

The True Jesus died for everyone.

Unfortunately, thats a false jesus. The True Jesus death Justified them He died for, and the Just shall live by Faith. Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[Runningman]

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..Eph 2:3

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in Rom 4:5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in

tresspasses and sins, while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace..Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condtion we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..

From my perspective, I would add 2 Corinthians 5:21 to this, as I think it supplements it with a bit more information.

2 Cor. 5:21 KJV
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Notice being made the righteousness of God is totally dependent upon being "in Him." This is key.

How are we "in Him?"

 

[brightfame52]

sigh ... instead of using man's logic to make Scripture fit into your erroneous dogma, you need to bring your erroneous dogma into alignment with Scripture.

Wherever your dogma does not align with Scripture, get rid of the error. Just let go of it and trust God that your world will not crumble.


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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You arent paying attention are you ? Reread what you quoted.

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture according to brightfame52:


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world all Justified person within all mankind.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world all Justified person within all mankind, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever all Justified person within all mankind believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world all Justified person within all mankind to condemn the world all Justified person within all mankind; but that the world all Justified person within all mankind through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world all Justified person within all mankind.


what a farce!!!
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Again the all of mankind that Jesus died for are Justified before God because of it. Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

See the all here have received Justification of life ! So common reasonable scriptural and spiritual sense knows the all here cannot include the unjust who go into eternal death.

So Christs death is for all who are Justified unto life, and them only !

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
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lol thats talking about members of the body of Christ, read the context Rom 12:3-5

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Paul has stated elsewhere and I have shown you, that all men dont have Faith, they werent given faith 2 Thess 3:2

2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Now Rom 12 :3 God has dealt to the saints a measure of Faith. Peter writes in a similar fashion when writng to the saints 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Now neither Peter here, nor Paul in Rom 12 are speaking to or of the unregenerate portion of mankind. You are reaching and desperate, you are violating the rules of context as well.

 

[brightfame52]

From my perspective, I would add 2 Corinthians 5:21 to this, as I think it supplements it with a bit more information.

2 Cor. 5:21 KJV
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Notice being made the righteousness of God is totally dependent upon being "in Him." This is key.

How are we "in Him?"

The Elect are in Him first and foremost by Divine Election which occurred prior to the world beginning. Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

So God put them in Christ before the foundation, and so Paul wrote 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 5:18 the all men refers to all the elect. The all men in Rom 5:18 are the same called the many in Rom 5:19.

Since (according to you) the "all men" in Rom 5:18 as well as "the many" in Rom 5:19 refers only to "the elect", then "the elect" are only ones who are condemned (vs 18) and made sinners (vs 19) which means that all the rest of mankind are not condemned nor made sinners.

I will no longer debate with you concerning Rom 5:18-19. I have shown you that your complete and utter mangling of God's Word has led you so far astray that you are unable to discuss these verses in any meaningful manner.

Such a shame that you have been deceived by your erroneous wind of doctrine.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
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