Who Justifieth the Ungodly

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#21
it seems like evil deeds we continue doing and don’t repent of will be what’s not left Unpunished

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems like our deeds in Christ are what we are going to be faced with and not whether we say we have faith or not but did we act in faith of not ?

Do you agree we’re going to be judged by our deeds and either have eternal life

Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

, or wrath , indignation , tribulation based on our continuance on doing the wrong things ?

“unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,”


so is faith just saying we’re justified or living that out in deed and truth repenting and walking in the good works of Christ ?
Sounds like a rabbit trail and evasion from the points made.
 

Mofastus

Active member
May 23, 2019
400
225
43
#23
Friend the Holy Ghost didn't die for sins, neither does scripture declare that. You quoting that scripture is pointless in that regard.
pointless ? you think scripture is pointless? you typed there was no word about it, and there was in the bible, that's the point !!!, you replying was pointless, you deny you were mistaken, strike 2 "Friend"
 

Mofastus

Active member
May 23, 2019
400
225
43
#24
Friend the Holy Ghost didn't die for sins, neither does scripture declare that. You quoting that scripture is pointless in that regard.
and since you are denying scripture you want to deny 2 Corinthians 3:17 ?

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
get the Point! yet? or how about John 4:24

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The Bible confirms itself with itself far beyond the understanding of men, and when men decide to dictate it's meaning blindly and are even shown their blindness and remain in denial, that's pride. the whole of John 14 speaks about why it says what it says in Acts 20;28, 2 Corinthians 3:17, John 4:24, and whether these things are pointless to you, I rejoice in their significance and the confirmations in scripture of the very truth of who God is, and without Him our faith and understanding is "pointless!"
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#25
Rom 5:1

Being Justified by Faith !

What does this mean ? For many deceivers are out in the world and have so misapplied this verse to make it say something that it really does not say or mean, and that is that one is saved or Justified before God because of their Faith, meaning their act of believing, that their act of believing is the causative reason of their Justification before God ! Let me say without hesitation that this teaching is false in that its against the True basis of Justification, and that namely is the Lord Jesus Christ. Against His accomplishment on the cross Its the blood of Jesus Christ and the grace of God that Justifies sinners, and i will prove this from scriptures. Also keep in mind, that Faith is a noun not a verb as in something we do, but its a substance.

Rom 5:1

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Let me start off by saying, what Paul does not mean here, and that is, Paul is not teaching that one is Justified [before God] by or because of their act of Faith, since #1, Faith is a noun in this verse..and if we use the verb believing, then we are saying that God Justified because of something I did, which was believe..Thats works..

And even more so, Paul cannot contradict his own teaching in other portions of Gods word as to the True source of Justification before God! First of all Paul teaches that the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus Christ Rom 5:9a

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Paul clearly teaches that Justification is by the blood of Jesus Christ.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#26
So Paul declares that the elect having been Justified by Christ blood, shall be delivered from the wrath to come..

2ndly, Paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Christ] Justification comes upon all men, that is, all men in Him at the time of His righteous act..observe Rom 5:18b

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This reads in exact contrast with the results of the one who made offence [ Adam] resulting in Gods condemnation and Judgment .for each of the heads brought about a Divine Judicial verdict on all those whom they represented. By the righteousness or righteous act of Jesus Christ, meaning His death, the free gift of Justification of life came upon [ not was offered or made available] but came upon all men [ in Christ at the time , his seed, as Adam had a seed in him] unto Justification of life..

The Justification unto life by the right act of one, called down the free Gift of Justification of life..

Thats why Paul wrote earlier in Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The redemption that is in Christ Jesus, again pointing to His redeeming blood and or death..

So we know Paul did not mean in Rom 5:1 that the elect are Justified by their act of believing or Faith, because it again contradicts Paul's overall teaching of this subject, and would make void the accomplishment of the redeeming death and blood of Jesus Christ and thats what satan and his messengers desire to do, to take the crown from Jesus head, and place it upon the head of man.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#27
So, so far in exposing the False teaching that the elect are saved or Justified because of their act of Faith or believing..we see that contradicts other clear teaching of paul that #1, the elect are Justified by the blood of Jesus christ Rom 5:9

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

That is when He bore their sins as prophesied Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. [shed His blood]

2ndly we find that paul teaches that by the righteous act of one [ Jesus christ] Justification came upon all men..not offered, not made available, but Sovereignly came upon them..Rom 5:18


18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


Now show me in this verse where it says that Justification of life came upon all men because they had faith ?

Thirdly, Paul teaches in vs 19 of Romans 5:19 that by the obedience of one, many shall be made righteous ..

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now where does it say that by their faith shall many be made righteous ? Paul says by the obedience of one many shall be made righteous..Now who is that one ?
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
#28
Rom 5:1

1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Let me start off by saying, what Paul does not mean here, and that is, Paul is not teaching that one is Justified [before God] by or because of their act of Faith, since #1, Faith is a noun in this verse..and if we use the verb believing, then we are saying that God Justified because of something I did, which was believe..Thats works..
In order to understand Rom 5:1, the workman who needeth not to be ashamed needs to read the verse in the context within which it sits.

The first word in Rom 5:1 is "therefore" [Greek οὖν], which is a conjunction.

From Meyer's NT Commentary:

Romans 5:1.[1129] Οὖν draws an inference from the whole of the preceding section, Romans 3:21 to Romans 4:25, and developes the argument in such a form that ΔΙΚΑΙΩΘΈΝΤΕς, following at once on ΔΙᾺ ΤΉΝ ΔΙΚΑΊΩΣΙΝ ἩΜ., heads the sentence with triumphant emphasis. What a blessed assurance of salvation is enjoyed by believers in virtue of their justification which has taken place through faith, is now to be more particularly set forth


In looking back to Romans 4, we read:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


If we believe (Rom 4:25), we are justified by faith (Rom 5:1) and being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Everything from God to us comes to us through our Lord Jesus Christ. Without Him, we are naked and have no standing before the Father.



And for those who insist that somehow "faith" / "believing" on the part of the born again one is "works", God has something to say about that as well:

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Faith is not works.



 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
#29
brightfam52 said (bold mine):
Now show me in this verse where it says that Justification of life came upon all men because they had faith ?
poor debate tactic to limit the response to "this verse". sneaky sneaky :sneaky:


What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?
Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.
The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.
Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.
Second Timothy 2:15 commands us to use exegetical methods: “Present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.” An honest student of the Bible will be an exegete, allowing the text to speak for itself. Eisegesis easily lends itself to error, as the would-be interpreter attempts to align the text with his own preconceived notions. Exegesis allows us to agree with the Bible; eisegesis seeks to force the Bible to agree with us.
The process of exegesis involves 1) observation: what does the passage say? 2) interpretation: what does the passage mean? 3) correlation: how does the passage relate to the rest of the Bible? and 4) application: how should this passage affect my life?
Eisegesis, on the other hand, involves 1) imagination: what idea do I want to present? 2) exploration: what Scripture passage seems to fit with my idea? and 3) application: what does my idea mean? Notice that, in eisegesis, there is no examination of the words of the text or their relationship to each other, no cross-referencing with related passages, and no real desire to understand the actual meaning. Scripture serves only as a prop to the interpreter’s idea.


 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#30
In order to understand Rom 5:1, the workman who needeth not to be ashamed needs to read the verse in the context within which it sits.

The first word in Rom 5:1 is "therefore" [Greek οὖν], which is a conjunction.

From Meyer's NT Commentary:

Romans 5:1.[1129] Οὖν draws an inference from the whole of the preceding section, Romans 3:21 to Romans 4:25, and developes the argument in such a form that ΔΙΚΑΙΩΘΈΝΤΕς, following at once on ΔΙᾺ ΤΉΝ ΔΙΚΑΊΩΣΙΝ ἩΜ., heads the sentence with triumphant emphasis. What a blessed assurance of salvation is enjoyed by believers in virtue of their justification which has taken place through faith, is now to be more particularly set forth


In looking back to Romans 4, we read:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


If we believe (Rom 4:25), we are justified by faith (Rom 5:1) and being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Everything from God to us comes to us through our Lord Jesus Christ. Without Him, we are naked and have no standing before the Father.



And for those who insist that somehow "faith" / "believing" on the part of the born again one is "works", God has something to say about that as well:

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Faith is not works.
So do you understand that Paul isnt saying that the Justified are justified before God because of their act of believing ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#31
brightfam52 said (bold mine):

poor debate tactic to limit the response to "this verse". sneaky sneaky :sneaky:


What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?
Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.
The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.
Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.
Second Timothy 2:15 commands us to use exegetical methods: “Present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.” An honest student of the Bible will be an exegete, allowing the text to speak for itself. Eisegesis easily lends itself to error, as the would-be interpreter attempts to align the text with his own preconceived notions. Exegesis allows us to agree with the Bible; eisegesis seeks to force the Bible to agree with us.
The process of exegesis involves 1) observation: what does the passage say? 2) interpretation: what does the passage mean? 3) correlation: how does the passage relate to the rest of the Bible? and 4) application: how should this passage affect my life?
Eisegesis, on the other hand, involves 1) imagination: what idea do I want to present? 2) exploration: what Scripture passage seems to fit with my idea? and 3) application: what does my idea mean? Notice that, in eisegesis, there is no examination of the words of the text or their relationship to each other, no cross-referencing with related passages, and no real desire to understand the actual meaning. Scripture serves only as a prop to the interpreter’s idea.
So can you show me in Rom 5:18 that Justification came upon all men because of their faith ? What does the verse say was the cause of justification of life coming upon all men ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#32
Paul then goes on to write that the elect are Justified by Grace Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

And this is freely, without cause of us, Just being of the election of grace. Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption [blood] that is in Christ Jesus:

The word freely here is the greek word:

dōrean: which means:


freely, undeservedly and is translated without a cause as here:

Jn 15:25

25But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.


Redemption is through His blood, of which His Grace operates towards the elect..

Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

In light of these scriptures, we continue to expose the false teaching of the antichrist followers who would take the crown from Jesus head and place it upon their own.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
#33
more of the same poor debate tactic ... :rolleyes:
So can you show me in Rom 5:18 that Justification came upon all men because of their faith ? What does the verse say was the cause of justification of life coming upon all men ?
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.



Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ



Romans 5:1 clearly states the born again one has been justified by faith.

You don't have faith that what is stated in Romans 5:1 is truth? Go to God and ask Him to reveal His truth to you. James tells us:

James 1:

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
#34
And this is freely, without cause of us, Just being of the election of grace. Rom 3:24

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption [blood] that is in Christ Jesus:
sigh ... more of your shenanigans ... ripping a verse out of its context and then using it to support your eisegesis ... sneaky sneaky :sneaky:


Romans 3:

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.



 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#35
sigh ... more of your shenanigans ... ripping a verse out of its context and then using it to support your eisegesis ... sneaky sneaky :sneaky:


Romans 3:

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
There another that's not used quite as much.He that sins is of the devil
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#36
more of the same poor debate tactic ... :rolleyes:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ



Romans 5:1 clearly states the born again one has been justified by faith.

You don't have faith that what is stated in Romans 5:1 is truth? Go to God and ask Him to reveal His truth to you. James tells us:

James 1:

5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
More evasion and rabbit trail. I asked you about Rom 5:18 and you go through all this.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#37
sigh ... more of your shenanigans ... ripping a verse out of its context and then using it to support your eisegesis ... sneaky sneaky :sneaky:


Romans 3:

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
How were they Justified according to Rom 3:24 friend ?
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,674
113
#38
More evasion and rabbit trail. I asked you about Rom 5:18 and you go through all this.
only in the mindset of brightfame52 is expounding the word of God equal to "evasion and rabbit trail" ... :rolleyes:



2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.




How were they Justified according to Rom 3:24 friend ?
context, context context.

Why is it important to study the Bible in context?
It’s important to study Bible passages and stories within their context. Taking verses out of context leads to all kinds of error and misunderstanding. Understanding context begins with four principles: literal meaning (what it says), historical setting (the events of the story, to whom is it addressed, and how it was understood at that time), grammar (the immediate sentence and paragraph within which a word or phrase is found) and synthesis (comparing it with other parts of Scripture for a fuller meaning). Context is crucial to biblical exegesis in that it is one of its most important fundamentals. After we account for the literal, historical, and grammatical nature of a passage, we must then focus on the outline and structure of the book, then the chapter, then the paragraph. All of these things refer to "context."
...
The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.



2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#39
Justified before believing !

The False teachers of today have turned what is the evidence of Justification into a condition to get salvation or Justification..

When the fact of the matter is, the elect are Justified before they believe, which is understood if we consider Rom 4:5

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Notice, but believeth on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly !

The scripture does not term any who are believers Ungodly, we have our names from post conversion, such as saints, living stones, babes in Christ, beloved, holy brethren and ect, but seeing here Paul writes that God Justifieth the Ungodly, then believers are Justified before believing..

You see their [ the elect] believing did not Justify them, but Christ Justified many by baring their sins Isa 53:11

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He [ Jesus Christ] in taking away the sin of the elect made us righteous, and this was our Justification..

Jn 1:29

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


Rom 5:8

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Christ death Justified us [ the elect] while we were sinners, ungodly..

This was before we believed, for I was Justified by Christ death in 33 ad, before I was manifested [ born] in 1957..

Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

reconciliation and Justification are of the same sort, acceptance with God in Favor, and yet this occurred while we were sinners, before we believed, how ? by the death of His Son.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#40
only in the mindset of brightfame52 is expounding the word of God equal to "evasion and rabbit trail" ... :rolleyes:


2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.





context, context context.

Why is it important to study the Bible in context?
It’s important to study Bible passages and stories within their context. Taking verses out of context leads to all kinds of error and misunderstanding. Understanding context begins with four principles: literal meaning (what it says), historical setting (the events of the story, to whom is it addressed, and how it was understood at that time), grammar (the immediate sentence and paragraph within which a word or phrase is found) and synthesis (comparing it with other parts of Scripture for a fuller meaning). Context is crucial to biblical exegesis in that it is one of its most important fundamentals. After we account for the literal, historical, and grammatical nature of a passage, we must then focus on the outline and structure of the book, then the chapter, then the paragraph. All of these things refer to "context."
...
The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.



2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
More evasion and rabbit trail. I asked you how were they Justified according to Rom 5:18 you evaded, again How so according to Rom 3:24 and more evasion.