Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

you believe people Christ died for remain lost in their sins, unjustified, unforgiven, thats unbelief !

nope ... all descendants of Adam are born as sinners and justified when God imputes righteousness ... just as is written in Scripture:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 – righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before (as you claim).

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before we believed".
.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... all descendants of Adam are born as sinners and justified when God imputes righteousness ... just as is written in Scripture:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 – righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before (as you claim).

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before we believed".
.

Again you believe people Christ died for remain lost in their sins, unjustified, unforgiven, thats unbelief !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Again you believe people Christ died for remain lost in their sins, unjustified, unforgiven, thats unbelief !

I believe Scripture when Scripture says the Lord Jesus Christ takes away the sin of the world, the whole world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


You, on the other hand, believe the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ was insufficient to cover the sins of the world, the whole world.

I believe in the 100% efficacy of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ ... that some reject Him and end up being cast into the lake of fire ... just as Scripture tells us:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain. And the verb is active, which means the person suppresses/restrains.
.

 

[brightfame52]

I believe Scripture when Scripture says the Lord Jesus Christ takes away the sin of the world, the whole world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


You, on the other hand, believe the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ was insufficient to cover the sins of the world, the whole world.

I believe in the 100% efficacy of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ ... that some reject Him and end up being cast into the lake of fire ... just as Scripture tells us:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain. And the verb is active, which means the person suppresses/restrains.
.

You may quote scripture all you want, you still in unbelief !

I believe in the 100% efficacy of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ .

Thats impossible since you believe people He died for wind up lost in their sins in unbelief.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You may quote scripture all you want, you still in unbelief !

nope ... I believe Scripture just as the Author of Scripture wrote it.

you, on the other hand, must manipulate the text ... at which point you no longer have Scripture. all you have is man's wisdom ... that's unbelief.

I believe in the 100% efficacy of the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ ... that some reject Him and end up being cast into the lake of fire ... just as Scripture tells us:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain. And the verb is active, which means the person suppresses/restrains.

Thats impossible

nope ... truth of Scripture and you suppress, restrain the the truth in unrighteousness concerning this issue ... just as revealed in Romans 1

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain. And the verb is active, which means the person suppresses/restrains.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[AcceptedintheBeloved]

Revelation 22:17-19

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... I believe Scripture just as the Author of Scripture wrote it.

you, on the other hand, must manipulate the text ... at which point you no longer have Scripture. all you have is man's wisdom ... that's unbelief.





nope ... truth of Scripture and you suppress, restrain the the truth in unrighteousness concerning this issue ... just as revealed in Romans 1

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain. And the verb is active, which means the person suppresses/restrains.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

You definitly dont believe that Jesus Death in and of itself Justified before God them He shed His Blood for, thats unbelief !

 

[brightfame52]

Justified from our sins before we believe !

Those of us who came to Faith in Christ, we were Justified from our sins before God before we came to believe, because before we believe God saith Isa 44:21-22

21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Lets notice the basis for Gods Call to His People for their return to Him or repentance, it was based upon , foundationed upon what He has already done, which was He hath blotted out their Transgressions, He had Redeemed them, which comes only by and through the Cross of Christ Col 2:13-14

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

You see that phrase "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way"

It means their sins and transgressions against Gods Law, and its the same as in Isa 44:22, He taketh them away by nailing them to Christ's Cross, Note: The OT Saints looked forward to the Blood of Christ that taketh away their sins] their sins as well as NT Saints were imputed to Christ, and so returning to God by Faith and Repentance is premised on what has been done [the forgiveness of sins and redemption by Christ] even before we believed, even before we existed ; You see Christ did not die for our sins when we believed, but way before we believed, and in the Eternal Counsels of God, before the world began Rev 13:8; 1 Pet 1:20 ! 16

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You definitly dont believe that Jesus Death in and of itself Justified before God them He shed His Blood for, thats unbelief !

Scripture tells us the Lord Jesus Christ shed His Blood for the world, the whole world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


You, on the other hand, believe the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ was insufficient to cover the sins of the world, the whole world.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Justified from our sins before we believe !

nope ... before you believed, you were not "Justified from [your] sins" ... you were dead in trespasses and sins, just as God tells you:

Ephesians 2:2-3 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Those of us who came to Faith in Christ, we were Justified from our sins before God before we came to believe

nope ... you need to read what is written in Scripture and believe what the Author of Scripture tells you:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

You see Christ did not die for our sins when we believed, but way before we believed

no one disputes this, brightfame52. We all acknowledge and agree that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins ... that He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The issue is when does God impute righteousness.

you believe God imputes righteousness before a person believes.

I believe God imputes righteousness at the time a person believes just as God tells us in Romans 4:20-5:1.


you believe faith is works on the part of the believer.

I believe faith is not works on the part of the believer just as God tells us in Rom 4:3-5:

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
.

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture tells us the Lord Jesus Christ shed His Blood for the world, the whole world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


You, on the other hand, believe the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ was insufficient to cover the sins of the world, the whole world.
.

Again unbelief has you. Those who Christ died for are Justified, Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Yet you teach sinners He shed His Blood for are yet condemned in their sins in unbelief !

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... before you believed, you were not "Justified from [your] sins" ... you were dead in trespasses and sins, just as God tells you:

Ephesians 2:2-3 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.





nope ... you need to read what is written in Scripture and believe what the Author of Scripture tells you:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ





no one disputes this, brightfame52. We all acknowledge and agree that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins ... that He is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The issue is when does God impute righteousness.

you believe God imputes righteousness before a person believes.

I believe God imputes righteousness at the time a person believes just as God tells us in Romans 4:20-5:1.


you believe faith is works on the part of the believer.

I believe faith is not works on the part of the believer just as God tells us in Rom 4:3-5:

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
.

Yes, those who Christ died for are Justified before God solely by His Blood before they believe, before they are born even. Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Now they find out about it by God given Faith sometime in their lifetime whenever God regenerates them and sends them the Gospel to believe.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Yet you teach sinners He shed His Blood for are yet condemned in their sins in unbelief !

yes ... being now justified ... therefore, being justified by faith – Rom 5:1.

being now justified ... not, as you claim, in eternity past.

Now they find out about it

... you twist the Scriptures in your futile effort to prop up erroneous dogma.


2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

yes ... being now justified ... therefore, being justified by faith – Rom 5:1.

being now justified ... not, as you claim, in eternity past.





... you twist the Scriptures in your futile effort to prop up erroneous dogma.


2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

Again Justification by Faith is no more than God given Faith seeing and receiving the Justification already accomplished for one by the Blood of Christ. Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

One is Justified by His Blood before they are given Faith to believe, and while they are ungodly.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Again Justification by Faith is no more than God given Faith seeing and receiving the Justification already accomplished for one by the Blood of Christ.

... according to Scripture, justification by faith is:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

One is Justified by His Blood before they are given Faith to believe, and while they are ungodly.

nope ... God tells us righteousnsess was imputed to Abraham when Abraham believed God.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

... according to Scripture, justification by faith is:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ





nope ... God tells us righteousnsess was imputed to Abraham when Abraham believed God.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

Again Justification by Faith is the evidence, the persuasion that one has been Justified by Christ, His Blood and His Righteousness.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Again Justification by Faith is the evidence, the persuasion that one has been Justified by Christ, His Blood and His Righteousness.

justification by faith is what God declares ...

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


your arguing with Scripture does not change the truth of Scripture to your stated belief.
.

 

[brightfame52]

justification by faith is what God declares ...

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


your arguing with Scripture does not change the truth of Scripture to your stated belief.
.

Justification by Faith is merely the knowledge given that one has been Justified by Christ.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Justification by Faith is merely the knowledge given that one has been Justified by Christ.

nope ... justification by faith is what God tells us in Scripture (notwithstanding your incessant attempts to align Scripture with your erroneous dogma).

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

vs 16-17 – believe the gospel ... result is salvation ... the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith because the justified one lives (and continues to live) by faith.


Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō = suppress, restrain] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vss 18-19 – suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... result is wrath of God because God revealed truth and the person rejected God.
.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... justification by faith is what God tells us in Scripture (notwithstanding your incessant attempts to align Scripture with your erroneous dogma).

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

vs 16-17 – believe the gospel ... result is salvation ... the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith because the justified one lives (and continues to live) by faith.


Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō = suppress, restrain] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

vss 18-19 – suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... result is wrath of God because God revealed truth and the person rejected God.
.

Yes it is