I agree with you that those verses are references to end-times events like the great tribulation and second return of Christ. The bit about the great flood and Noah's ark are just used to illustrate what the second return of will look like. The parallel is easy to understand because those in the ark were saved from the flood, those outside the ark were not saved. Those who are in Christ are saved, those are who not in Christ are not saved. So what does that look like exactly? Matthew 24:31, 40-41 describe it as His elect being gathered by angels, His elect being Christians. Important note is that Matthew 24:29-31 says that the "gathering of His elect" is associated with the second return of Christ which doesn't happen until after the great tribulation, if we are to take these verses as literally chronological which seems like a logical assumption.
Which Delivered Us from the Wrath to Come. (1Th 1:10)
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You are so thoroughly confused that you really need to go to someone and humbly ask them to teach you sound doctrine. Right now that statement shows that you are clueless about (1) the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church (a single event) and (2) the end of the world (which never happens since God creates a New Heavens and a New Earth).
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We should not confuse the Tribulation Saints with the Church. What we see in Revelation is that the Gospel will be preached primarily to the Jews by Moses and Elijah during the Tribulation, and people will be saved. These will also be the ones who refuse to take the Mark of the Beast and are therefore beheaded. But during this time the Church (the Body of Christ until the Resurrection/Rapture) is in Heaven, and it is those saints who descend with Christ and the holy angels at His Second Coming. Following that the Tribulation Saints are resurrected and join all the others.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Rev 20:4)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Rev 20:4)
One issue that is up for debate is whether Paul's letters to the Body of Christ, Romans to Philemon will also apply to that "Gospel" that is preached during the Great Tribulation.
Will it still be by faith apart from works? Do I need to add in the work of "refusing to take the Mark of the Beast" in order to be considered a saint in the end?
Will it still be by faith apart from works? Do I need to add in the work of "refusing to take the Mark of the Beast" in order to be considered a saint in the end?
The gospel will be preached right up till the last day .The day it meets its fulfillment. No need to create Hollywood drama.
We are in the great tribulation called the last days. It began when the time of reformation came. A time like never before or ever again. It will end on the last day. We walk by faith the unseen eternal .The evil generation seeks after a sign as if the kingdom did come by observation.
We are in the great tribulation called the last days. It began when the time of reformation came. A time like never before or ever again. It will end on the last day. We walk by faith the unseen eternal .The evil generation seeks after a sign as if the kingdom did come by observation.
It is interesting how people can be so confident about things the Bible does not say. The Bible does not say that Moses and Elijah are the two witnesses. It does not say that the church will be in heaven during the tribulation, or that the church is raptured prior to it. The people of the church are called 'saints' throughout scripture, and we do not see John calling anything but a local congregation 'church', though Paul uses the term.
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Here's proof from scripture.
The rapture;
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17)
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53)
But it happens after the resurrection. Which happens on the last day
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV 1900)
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28–29)
“And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” (John 6:39)
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:44 (HCSB)
“so man lies down and does not rise; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor arise from their sleep.” (Job 14:12) (NET)
The rapture;
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17)
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53)
But it happens after the resurrection. Which happens on the last day
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV 1900)
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28–29)
“And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” (John 6:39)
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:44 (HCSB)
“so man lies down and does not rise; until the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor arise from their sleep.” (Job 14:12) (NET)
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Wrath
The only mention of the wrath of God concerns a time period of afew years where God takes out his wrath on mankind, and his tim eof being patient is completed. It is specifically adressed in the book of revelation. where we are told even the kings of the earth proclaim the day of the Lords wrath is come and who can withstand it
As for the final judgment.
That is not God's wrath, It is him giving people what they deserve.
He paid the price for their sins, They CHOSE to reject his great salvation. so he will send them to a place he had no desire to send them to. But as a loving God, he would not force them to receive him.
so to say hell is wrath I think would be misleading
The only mention of the wrath of God concerns a time period of afew years where God takes out his wrath on mankind, and his tim eof being patient is completed. It is specifically adressed in the book of revelation. where we are told even the kings of the earth proclaim the day of the Lords wrath is come and who can withstand it
As for the final judgment.
That is not God's wrath, It is him giving people what they deserve.
He paid the price for their sins, They CHOSE to reject his great salvation. so he will send them to a place he had no desire to send them to. But as a loving God, he would not force them to receive him.
so to say hell is wrath I think would be misleading
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In the signified interpretation used in parables of Revelation. Thousand years = a unknown
Yes Moses and Elijah in parables are used to represent the two witnesses of God (sola scriptural) The law and the prophets) Moses and Elijah's bodies have long turned to dust .
Its the letter of the law that will be cast into the lake of fire as the second death .The death of death itself.
We are in the tribulation .(last days) One like never before or ever again. The church is going nowhere until the last day
Those kind of idea of Zombies walking around with new creatures which no one knows what will will be made of (not corrupted flesh and blood) is more of a Hollywood drama type.
The thousand years is simply a unknown. In the twinkling of the eye ..the old things will not be remembered or ever come to mind. No signs as a wonder. Last day .
Yes Moses and Elijah in parables are used to represent the two witnesses of God (sola scriptural) The law and the prophets) Moses and Elijah's bodies have long turned to dust .
Its the letter of the law that will be cast into the lake of fire as the second death .The death of death itself.
We are in the tribulation .(last days) One like never before or ever again. The church is going nowhere until the last day
Those kind of idea of Zombies walking around with new creatures which no one knows what will will be made of (not corrupted flesh and blood) is more of a Hollywood drama type.
The thousand years is simply a unknown. In the twinkling of the eye ..the old things will not be remembered or ever come to mind. No signs as a wonder. Last day .
It could be turning things right side up.
He chose us (blind and deaf) We had no means to chose him (without faith) . He must do the first work and provide His new creature new spirit life in order to replace the temporal corrupted spirit. .That which was subject to the letter of the law, death. . . . dying suffering.
We who do have the rest (sabbath) from being yoked with Christ have his power the of God in these earthen bodies of death .Just as Jesus.
The wrath of God "hell" is the suffering unto death. The wage of sin is being revealed to the whole world from heaven. This was ever since the letter of the law was violated in the garden ."You shall surely not die" The nakedness of mankind revealed in Romans 1:18
The outcome of the wrath is death. . . never to rise to new spirit life. Death the "greatest tribulation". In that way there is no need to create different kinds tribulations as wonderment's.
The great tribulation called Jacobs trouble began when Jesus said; "it is finished" (the best news). The veil was rent indicating the Son of man was here and demonstrated the work of Him and the Father and left never to put on the flesh of mankind ever again .(God is not a man as us)
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1:18
Not the wrath will be revealed (future) but constantly is being revealed. No need to look out the window .Its not what goes into a person that defiles him its what comes out that must be covered up.
Jesus alone knew no sin. We walk by faith just as he and the father demonstrated.
If that is not what law concerning His wrath represents as the worst possible tribulation.(Romans 1:18) Then what ? Why look for a greater tribulation?
What kind of tribulation are others thinking of. And where do we find the reference in the bible of a greater than death tribulation ?
It would seem tribulations are like the idea of dispensations. . . dividing the word to search out "that kind of manner".
No foundation as a prescription in the bible for that kind of searching.
