Where Wisdom Lies

[Rhomphaeam]

A "tested prophet" so he must have passed the test, and so what test does your church use on the prophets?

The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. Prov 14:15

While I have heard people claim 1 John 4:1 says not to believe not every prophet, but test the prophets whether that are of God, but even that is a merely a private interpretation of scripture.

I know the scriptures say not to believe every word, but to try the words whether they be of truth because there are many people who claim they are telling the truth but in 'reality' they are not. [See John 6:33]

"...and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. " Rom 16:18



For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Matt 6:21

But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. 1 Cor 7:33

Pretty much the entire direction of your words and claims, either by inference or else by express claim, is predicated to an assumption that the 'speaker' must be tested. And of course your application is to a claimed prophetic ministry of others claims as you have done here.

Then there is the last part which you cite to 1 Corinthians 7:3 which dials to the heart of the matter - what rationalists call causality.

Yet who's causality it that then?

Who is in the possession of this 'benefit'?

Is that they that are married? or they that are celibate?

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Just, read Hebrews Chapter 1 and continue on, you might find a lot about what is done by God for us through Son to us, and see God talks to his kids directly, and God reveals truth to us, his kids, such as
For me in my walk, God stuck this out to me Hebrews 5:12-Chapter 6. Also Chapter 10, really set me ablaze to see truth deeper, wider, higher and securely, it is God that has given and gives life to people, through his Son as risen for them. Those that believe God in this one work of Son for them. Are given this born new life to them. To learn new in as life continues forward. God who remains faithful in God's forgiveness, reconciliation. continues in his children and these children grow up spiritually maturely by God for them over time as one makes mistakes along the way

Thanks for that.

Hebrews Chapter Six is a rather difficult passage to understand and yet there have been many exceptional books written across almost the entire spectrum of the church in the last 100 years that hit the mark well in describing the nature of personal salvation extending beyond the fact of our receiving eternal life as an eternal possession.

Your response is reasonably set into an advice and as advice I cannot disagree with you. I suppose the actual difference between my willingness to read and agree with your advice, and why I wrote you, is the difference between being in two minds. Elijah had to ask Israel on Mount Carmel how long they would be in two minds. But he wasn't anticipating their answer. He knew their condition and so he was 'begging the question' as it were. In truth he was not looking to reason with anyone at all. Hence why he mocked the prophets of Ball, and then ordered them to be put to death. Israel knew whom they would be obligated to serve, just as Moses gave them the Law of God written in Stone.

Knowing which mind we are serving in is the connective material that grants mercy to Israel in her two minds.

In our case we have Christ.

 

[Ballaurena]

Thanks for your responses. I enjoyed reading them and can see that you most assuredly have a sound mind to reason away from the psycho babble that is now amusingly raising, itched, and making more 'prophets' than a pig farmer would dare to shake a stick at during rutting. Of course that is largely a derived innate pathology that may be induced out of necessity for the one whose mind is far too fragile otherwise.

It is of course the 'old school' prophets, that take their course from the claimed inception of the so called "Prophetic School" under the claimed hand of the last Judge over Israel and the First Prophet over a Nation that asked for a King to be over them. And their reason was straight forward and real. Samuel's two sons were corrupt and neither would be a choice that Israel would tolerate. When they got their king, they got Saul, and his reign lasted just.a few weeks and then God rejected him from being king over Israel. In choosing David the most singular difference is that David could NOT lie against God or consult necropsy (Necromancy in physical dial of the body itself). Saul could and did in the end resort to that in the Necromancer of En'Dor. But before that he exploited his new standing, NOT as a king because he knew that God had rejected him, rather as a 'changed man' when he also knew that as long as Samuel covered him with the people, he could speak in the prophetic voice. He did endlessly and did so to satiate his personal condition of being endlessly and emotionally driven internally so that he thought his kingship were a greater thing than obedience to God.

Samuel, both his experience arsing out of his sons, and his being given into the Temple under the hand of Eli the High Priest, and HIS two sons who would tear the priesthood from his hands and throw it into the very spirit that has informed the prophetic schools for the last 200 years. Dagon - in type and kind.

What may be easily missed is that the more mature end of the "Prophetic School' have taken their claim to the Ministry and Office of Elisha. During his more than 50 year service to Israel he began the process of showing that compassion and mercy are NOT excluded from the Judgements of God and can be worked out in daily life. - Based as was in his time Israel in obedience to God and under the Law of God. It is akin to the NT voice of God when we read that we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. That continuance to the NT scope of Salvation is nothing less than Christ Himself. That mystery is what every man, woman or child MUST receive if they are in any way going to take confidence in God in the years ahead.

It is a remarkable study that is implied in the scope of the prophetic school that has been growing into an increasing occult practise that defies reason and resists all rebuke. What is missing is the connective tissue that will present the occult reality of a visible and vocatively asserted psychophysical umbilicus (an implied neurology) yet exceeding known boundaries of newtonian physics) even accepting Einstein.

Believe it or not, Sir Issac Newton was on that case during the years he was writing his seminal work in Mathematics.

My point here, in that regard, is that John Maynard Keynes spoke of Sir Issac Newton in 1946 at the Tercentennial celebration of Newton, and postulated the question, "why do I speak of Newton as a Magician?" Keynes like Elisha was deeply interested in the cerebral relationship between governance, statute and consequence arsing out of its implication. Modern societies have know for at least 300 years that material science and seeming connected events such as are more explained as 'psychical events' in para psychology and are reduced to either innate or else acquired psychological behaviour in outworking in clinical psychology - are measurably real. And it is ONLY to the extend that behaviour can be expressed as 'aberrant' that one can actually say that a persons behaviour is wrong.

Most of what I encounter in this forum has some of that character to is, and of course there are some clear leads to a more reasoned outcome. As I say, I enjoyed your comments.

The real question one would assume is are there any real prophets outside Agabus (in your correction you understand).

Maybe I will get to your post later but today I'm zonked and more at cat meme level, so I thought I would share. Unfortunately some of them won't work. (Or maybe fortunately.)

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Pretty much the entire direction of your words and claims, either by inference or else by express claim, is predicated to an assumption that the 'speaker' must be tested.

Neither, clearly stated to test the words, whether they be of truth.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Neither, clearly stated to test the words, whether they be of truth.

Indeed. So as I asked is that imbibed truth to be applied by consumption or celibacy?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Which mind would you be using if I answered? (your rational or other)

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Which mind would you be using if I answered? (your rational or other)

The mind of a reasonable man who believes into Christ.

 

[PaulThomson]

I had been thinking more on the topic as I was doing my morning checklist and I intended to note my conclusions in the other thread that had generated this one if I happened on an opening. But I think it might be relevant here also considering the answer you graciously provided (btw, ty). Considering what possible 'moment' that I was saved, without question, I reached the determination that, though I had known that God existed, it wasn't until the moment that it was revealed Who existed that I then continued, unshakable, in faith. That is, it was just that I knew Jesus existed, but that I came to realize Who He Is, exactly, rather than wonder if He was of this character or of that. The moment I "lifted up my eyes," as an ancient Hebrew idiom would put it (that implies within the it scales falling from my eyes and seeing clearly) and beheld the Truth, that I then bowed my eyes, with my head, and not without my knee, to the ground in reverence... that from which I arose (stood in) and was baptized in His Name, having my sins washed away, and danced with pure joy.

I would say that truth is that which corresponds perfectly to reality: reality being things as they are.

Some suggest there are four ways of knowing which we develop from birth:
1. Participatory knowing: Learning by being involved in events. A new born baby gains this kind of knowledge.
2. Perspectival knowledge: Becoming aware that there are more perspectives than just my own on the reality in which I am participating. The baby learns that there are other persons distinct from themselves, and the same thing looks different when seen from from different perspectives.
3. Procedural knowledge: The child learns how to manipulate reality to achieve results. How to feed oneself, ho to tie shoe laces, how to read words.
4. Propositional knowledge: the child learns to make truth claims about reality based on information gleaned from the other three ways of knowing. This is a cup and it is red and empty.

Many Christians have elevated the fourth way of knowing to such a degree above the other three, that they feel it in necessary to attain a "faith" that can make truth claims having little or no grounding in the other three kinds of knowing, and having little or no correspondence to reality as determined by the other three kinds of knowing. It gets to a stage where truth claims are derived from other truth claims, and those from other truth claims, without any reference to the real world. And the conclusions thus arrive at are imposed on reality, as though being able to think in, create and wield propositions is the height of spirituality.

However, if one reads the Bible, one sees that whatever propositional truths are therein, their purpose is to help the person develop a more rounded and extensive competency in the other three, not to rein the in to the limitations of the person's list of faith/truth claims.

 

[Mem]

I would say that truth is that which corresponds perfectly to reality: reality being things as they are.

Some suggest there are four ways of knowing which we develop from birth:
1. Participatory knowing: Learning by being involved in events. A new born baby gains this kind of knowledge.
2. Perspectival knowledge: Becoming aware that there are more perspectives than just my own on the reality in which I am participating. The baby learns that there are other persons distinct from themselves, and the same thing looks different when seen from from different perspectives.
3. Procedural knowledge: The child learns how to manipulate reality to achieve results. How to feed oneself, ho to tie shoe laces, how to read words.
4. Propositional knowledge: the child learns to make truth claims about reality based on information gleaned from the other three ways of knowing. This is a cup and it is red and empty.

Many Christians have elevated the fourth way of knowing to such a degree above the other three, that they feel it in necessary to attain a "faith" that can make truth claims having little or no grounding in the other three kinds of knowing, and having little or no correspondence to reality as determined by the other three kinds of knowing. It gets to a stage where truth claims are derived from other truth claims, and those from other truth claims, without any reference to the real world. And the conclusions thus arrive at are imposed on reality, as though being able to think in, create and wield propositions is the height of spirituality.

However, if one reads the Bible, one sees that whatever propositional truths are therein, their purpose is to help the person develop a more rounded and extensive competency in the other three, not to rein the in to the limitations of the person's list of faith/truth claims.

Much thanks! This adequately explains the general tendency to dismiss my perspective as optical illusions. I appreciate that.
On pretty days, I enjoy cloud gazing, and some may think that I see what I want to see, but I know that God knows that I'm looking to see what I can, and so, I'm very rarely disappointed when the clouds begin forming a bunny rabbit, or a puppy, or maybe a duck. But what is especially delightful is when a friend shows me what they see also!

 

[homwardbound]

I would say that truth is that which corresponds perfectly to reality: reality being things as they are.

Some suggest there are four ways of knowing which we develop from birth:
1. Participatory knowing: Learning by being involved in events. A new born baby gains this kind of knowledge.
2. Perspectival knowledge: Becoming aware that there are more perspectives than just my own on the reality in which I am participating. The baby learns that there are other persons distinct from themselves, and the same thing looks different when seen from from different perspectives.
3. Procedural knowledge: The child learns how to manipulate reality to achieve results. How to feed oneself, ho to tie shoe laces, how to read words.
4. Propositional knowledge: the child learns to make truth claims about reality based on information gleaned from the other three ways of knowing. This is a cup and it is red and empty.

Many Christians have elevated the fourth way of knowing to such a degree above the other three, that they feel it in necessary to attain a "faith" that can make truth claims having little or no grounding in the other three kinds of knowing, and having little or no correspondence to reality as determined by the other three kinds of knowing. It gets to a stage where truth claims are derived from other truth claims, and those from other truth claims, without any reference to the real world. And the conclusions thus arrive at are imposed on reality, as though being able to think in, create and wield propositions is the height of spirituality.

However, if one reads the Bible, one sees that whatever propositional truths are therein, their purpose is to help the person develop a more rounded and extensive competency in the other three, not to rein the in to the limitations of the person's list of faith/truth claims.

Interesting, yet it is all work, mixing it with Faith, to think you got it and might not.
To understand and be in by one's esoteric knowledge or another one's. Amazing, no man/woman flesh can get in by work. Never has and never will. Yet the first birth flesh doesn't not give up on wanting to not ever die, and all flesh dies. (Just a fact.)
When God, the Father of the risen Son Jesus gives us new life in Son's risen life to simply abide in and not have to figure anything out again. Walking new in God's Spirit and Truth, learning to be dead to that first born flesh person. Alive to God in God's Spirit and Truth of risen Son given them to abide in.
If, going to that cross was/is willingly in vain. Then no way can God flow through people's veins
The death reconciled everyone as forgiven, that is a done work of Son for us the people as reconciled (Forgiven) forever in Father and Son for us to be new in his risen Life, that God Father gives and no one else can have, unless given it by God, Father and Son as won for them to simply be new
Take on my yoke (Father and Son as won) it is easy and real and simple, unless you the person is fighting this truth for you, stand to continue to believe God, receive from God and be new in God

John 4:23-24

Authorized (King James) Version

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Thanks, the way, the truth and new life offered us all in belief, we are 100% forgiven by God through Son for new life in his risen life to begin in and work through us. We at rest as God performs God's done work through us in love and mercy to all
Too simple, as has become not easy because of flesh works, and much discerning needed to learn in God, not ever quitting belief to God over it all, then one will grow up with Father and Son as seeing new and will be dead to their own first born self nature they were first born in under the first Adam
Romans 6:1-12