When are we saved ?

[throughfaith]

You understood the gospel without the Spirit teaching you? Really?

We don't get the Spirit until after we believe . Eph 1.13 -14

 

[throughfaith]

When the bride bid you to come,did the Spirit also say to you “come”? Rev 22:17

oh were back to that verse again . No voices are heard. Its written for our understanding. its not saying " listen out for his voice " .

 

[OIC1965]

We don't get the Spirit until after we believe . Eph 1.13 -14

He does not I dwell us until we believe, but He May speak to us and we may hear Him before we believe. Remember, He will convict the world of...

 

[OIC1965]

oh were back to that verse again . No voices are heard. Its written for our understanding. its not saying " listen out for his voice " .

When people heard and learned of the Father in the Gospels, did they hear His audible voice? No. Same with Spirit. Nice try...not really.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I keep trying . When is the Adoption according to Rom 8.23 and what is it ?

Adoption is a process. It begins by choosing who to adopt (Before the foundation of the world). Next comes the legal fees (Christ's payment of their sins on the cross). Next is to bring the adopted children home (When Jesus returns to gather his elect, chosen, from the four winds of the earth, and takes them home).

 

[throughfaith]

When people heard and learned of the Father in the Gospels, did they hear His audible voice? No. Same with Spirit. Nice try...not really.

Through the scriptures.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I think all of this comes down to whether we see saving faith as a gift in the Reformed view.

If Faith must be gifted then God again is picking and choosing, I cannot see anyway around that. .. unless we can say that faith is gifted to all... but how can such faith not lead to salvation if it is indeed faith.

Faith is IN Jesus for salvation ... it is connected to Him... not just a disconnected concept one adopts.

The natural man, before he has been regenerated only has faith in man, and his accomplishments. He does not have spiritual faith. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, which is given in regeneration.

 

[lenna]

Just having fun after the stress in this thread.

Yes they do.. I love Quebec, the north is beautiful, Montreal, Quebec City ..but yes they are are quite anti English, I have an Italian last name so they are not so rough on me.

there is a large population of Italians in Montreal...East end if I remember I think? I once had quite a few Italian friends...Christians that I met

well my last name (before marriage) is as English as it can get...so. alot of French people do not have the anti sentiments to be fair, but there is enough of it

stress in THIS thread? did I miss it ?

Quebec is beautiful and we used spend our summers up north in the Laurentians and later on, in the Lanaudière area, the elevation is higher there...Mt Tremblant and Tremblant park etc. I will always miss it I guess

 

[throughfaith]

Adoption is a process. It begins by choosing who to adopt (Before the foundation of the world). Next comes the legal fees (Christ's payment of their sins on the cross). Next is to bring the adopted children home (When Jesus returns to gather his elect, chosen, from the four winds of the earth, and takes them home).

Whist that inductive reasoning fits the calvinist narrative, it completely ignores the redemption of the body . This is called the Adoption . We become ' a child ' of God ( sons ) not through the process of adoption . But through regeneration. Through the new birth . Hence we are waiting FOR THE ADOPTION . Otherwise Romans 8.23 is a lie . Romans 8 .23 doesn't say " we recieve the final , climactic completion of our adoption " . No its all to do with our bodies .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Adding to the word of God there .

You are saying that scripture is not the word of God. That could be a dangerous place to be.

 

[throughfaith]

The natural man, before he has been regenerated only has faith in man, and his accomplishments. He does not have spiritual faith. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, which is given in regeneration.

The moment man changes his mind when confronted with the Gospel is to believe it . Mans soul still has the capacity to get married, get a degree , build space rockets , believe the Gospel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes

But he did predestined certain people based on his will. That whoever sees and believes has eternal life.

To say God did not know who would chose freely to believe in him, is to take away Gods power.

By God's foreknowledge, he could see that the natural man would never seek him, without his intervention. Isaiah 64:6-7.

 

[Magenta]

oh were back to that verse again . No voices are heard. Its written for our understanding. its not saying " listen out for his voice " .

God does still speak to people. Yes, audibly.

It is bothersome due to it being false, that some say He does not

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By God's foreknowledge, he could see that the natural man would never seek him, without his intervention. Isaiah 64:6-7.

True. But not the way you think. Regeneration can not precede justification. Unless God breaks his own rules

 

[throughfaith]

God does still speak to people. Yes, audibly.

It is bothersome due to it being false, that some say He does not

Which scripture says that God speaks to people audibly today ?

 

[lenna]

Matthew 12 (ESV)

18 "Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.

this is a prophecy concerning Jesus

this is not proof of election

this is proof God performs His word

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Whist that inductive reasoning fits the calvinist narrative, it completely ignores the redemption of the body . This is called the Adoption . We become ' a child ' of God ( sons ) not through the process of adoption . But through regeneration. Through the new birth . Hence we are waiting FOR THE ADOPTION . Otherwise Romans 8.23 is a lie . Romans 8 .23 doesn't say " we recieve the final , climactic completion of our adoption " . No its all to do with our bodies .

You seem to be struggling, and grasping at straws. You, very well, know that adoption is a process, and we, as a society, use the same process in this day and time. God predestinated us unto the adoption by Jesus Christ, and he paid the adoption price, by his death.

 

[lenna]

Grace means by God's work, not by man's work. Grace wasn't 'not by works', it took God's son to work to give his life, so we may receive the gift of God's grace.

are you comparing what Christ did on our behalf as opposed to 'works' in scripture in the NT?

seriously?

 

[lenna]

BenjaminN said:
Matthew 12 (ESV)

18 "Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles.




God chose Yeshua ha'Maschiach / Jesus the Messiah for working his salvation of grace. Just like God chose our Redeemer, he also chose the redeemed.

gaaaaa!

Jesus is God's only Son. He was there at creation.

God did not choose Him in the sense people may have a special calling on their life

I cannot believe how you are confusing scripture that pertains to Jesus only, as something applicable to ourselves

no really. it is yet another grave error found that can be added to so many others in this forum

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The moment man changes his mind when confronted with the Gospel is to believe it . Mans soul still has the capacity to get married, get a degree , build space rockets , believe the Gospel.

Yes, the natural man still has the capacity to get married, get a degree, build space rockets, but he does not have the capacity to believe in the things of the Spirit. It may do you good, to reread 1 Cor 2:14. The gospel is about spiritual things.