What must we do?

[Blik]

That isn't what I said. Frankly, I'm tired of responding to your misrepresentations of my words. I know you can read, but between your eyes reading and your fingers typing, the words of others are consistently twisted.


Either we are subject to the Mosaic law or we are not. It's not a buffet where you can pick and choose. Those in Christ are not subject to the Mosaic law, because our relationship with God is not based on law, but on faith.

n

That isn't what I said. Frankly, I'm tired of responding to your misrepresentations of my words. I know you can read, but between your eyes reading and your fingers typing, the words of others are consistently twisted.


Either we are subject to the Mosaic law or we are not. It's not a buffet where you can pick and choose. Those in Christ are not subject to the Mosaic law, because our relationship with God is not based on law, but on faith.

Evidently I am incapable of understanding the way you believe in scripture. You keep saying we are not subject to the Mosaic law, and then you keep saying you didn't say that.

The law was given to Moses on Sinai, given in rules that was changed to the law given in our hearts. The law tells us what sin we are to ask forgiveness for, and I know from your posts that you are not promoting sin. So, you must think of this question as you have decided to do, and I will stick to the way I understand it.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Rom_7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

The commandment didn't deceive, it was sin that deceived. by knowing the law sin was revealed and sin equals death. No commandments = no sin. verse 13 answers the question.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Anything and everything that is not Faith in Christ and His Finished Work at Calvary Cross will deceive. It is Law. Rom. 8:2, Gal. 2:18, 20-21

 

[Dino246]

Anything and everything that is not Faith in Christ and His Finished Work at Calvary Cross will deceive. It is Law. Rom. 8:2, Gal. 2:18, 20-21

^^^ This is more unscriptural corruption. ^^^

Here is what Scripture actually says:

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life [a]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Galatians 2:18-21 For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a wrongdoer. For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Nothing in those passages says or even hints that "anything and everything... will deceive. It is Law".

In Romans 8:23, Scripture says "Whatever is not of faith is sin," but the context is not about the Law.

 

[Dino246]

n
Evidently I am incapable of understanding the way you believe in scripture. You keep saying we are not subject to the Mosaic law, and then you keep saying you didn't say that.

The law was given to Moses on Sinai, given in rules that was changed to the law given in our hearts. The law tells us what sin we are to ask forgiveness for, and I know from your posts that you are not promoting sin. So, you must think of this question as you have decided to do, and I will stick to the way I understand it.

Here are my words from post #28, in which I was responding to MessageOfTheCross: "Galatians is addressing the error of returning to the Mosaic law."

Here are your words from post #33, in which you were responding to me: "If the Mosaic law was from our Lord, and if you believe our Lord is Holy, that He is our creator and created us and the earth, how can you say that all the law that the Lord gave is such we must not return to it?"

Notice the distinct difference in wording: "the error of returning to the Mosaic Law" vs "the law that the Lord gave is such that we must not return to it". In a nutshell, I said, "the error of returning" while you said, "returning to the error".

If you had merely quoted my exact words, as I have recommended to you several times, there would be no issue. I have told you before that every time you paraphrase me (or others), you change the meaning significantly. So, PLEASE STOP PARAPHRASING ME, because you consistently get it wrong.

Now, to the issue at hand: We Gentile Christians are NOT subject to the Mosaic law, and we never were! The early Christians, many of whom were ethnically Jewish, would have grown up under the Law. In Christ they were set free, but misguided false teachers came along and told them that they had to add adherence to the Mosaic law to faith in Christ, and they told the same to Gentile Christians. There was much confusion, and Paul wrote to the Galatians to sort out the mess. The truth is that in Christ, we are fully acceptable to God, and any attempt to add adherence to the Law to our already-sufficient faith actually hinders our relationship with God.

 

[Blik]

Here are my words from post #28, in which I was responding to MessageOfTheCross: "Galatians is addressing the error of returning to the Mosaic law."

Here are your words from post #33, in which you were responding to me: "If the Mosaic law was from our Lord, and if you believe our Lord is Holy, that He is our creator and created us and the earth, how can you say that all the law that the Lord gave is such we must not return to it?"

Notice the distinct difference in wording: "the error of returning to the Mosaic Law" vs "the law that the Lord gave is such that we must not return to it". In a nutshell, I said, "the error of returning" while you said, "returning to the error".

If you had merely quoted my exact words, as I have recommended to you several times, there would be no issue. I have told you before that every time you paraphrase me (or others), you change the meaning significantly. So, PLEASE STOP PARAPHRASING ME, because you consistently get it wrong.

Now, to the issue at hand: We Gentile Christians are NOT subject to the Mosaic law, and we never were! The early Christians, many of whom were ethnically Jewish, would have grown up under the Law. In Christ they were set free, but misguided false teachers came along and told them that they had to add adherence to the Mosaic law to faith in Christ, and they told the same to Gentile Christians. There was much confusion, and Paul wrote to the Galatians to sort out the mess. The truth is that in Christ, we are fully acceptable to God, and any attempt to add adherence to the Law to our already-sufficient faith actually hinders our relationship with God.

I like your "we are fully acceptable to God", I think that through Christ we are made righteous. What I can not accept is "any attempt to add adherence to the law actually hinders our relationship", for as we repent we attempt adherence to the law and the Lord asks us to repent.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom_8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

How do we walk after the Spirit? How does the Holy Spirit mortify the deeds of the flesh?

 

[WalkerAllan]

Hi, which part of Aus do you live in? I live in WA.

We live on the Central Coast of NSW. We have a son who lives in Perth and we have visited WA quite a lot in the past but you have locked us out at the moment.

 

[WalkerAllan]

WALKING AFTER THE SPIRIT​

There exist within the redeemed child of God that which could be described as two sources of life and energy. The first is the indwelling life of Christ (Galatians 2:20), the divine nature (2 Peter1:4). The second is what the KJV refers to as the “natural man” and the NIV as “the person without the Spirit” (1 Corinthians 2:14), perhaps what we could also call the “self life.”

What this means is that although we have been redeemed through the blood of the new covenant and been made part of the “new creation” in Christ, we still have the choice to derive the strength we need to live our lives from out of our own inner resources quite apart from the energising power and direction of the Spirit of God. In other words, it is possible to live out of the energy provided by our own will, our own strength, our natural wisdom and out of a sense of self-righteousness.

In so doing we are bypassing the glories of our inheritance in Christ in which he has already given us “everything we need for life and godliness” (2 Peter 1:3). We are losing sight of the fact that it is Christ who is made unto us wisdom from God (1 Corinthians 1:30), has freely given to us, under the terms of the New Covenant, the “gift of righteousness” by which we are to “reign in life” (Romans 5:17; 2 Corinthians 5:21) and who lives in us (shares his life with us) to strengthen us with all might and power in our inner man that we might be “filled to the measure of all the fullness of God” (Ephesians 3:16‑19).

To “walk after the Spirit,” therefore, means that the energy and activities of the “self life” are to be abandoned. This is what is being talked about in Hebrews chapter 4.
Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. (Hebrews 4:1)
For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience. (Hebrews 4:8‑11)

“His own work” from which we are to rest is the work and influence of the natural person. Paul certainly understood this very keenly.
…But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Corinthians 12:9‑10, NIV)

The “weakness” that Jesus was referring to here was the weakness of the “natural person” or the “flesh.”

A fundamental truth to be grasped here is that this “weakness” cannot be brought about by our own efforts or our own will. Such an idea is a complete contradiction in terms. It is completely the work of the Holy Spirit. The moment we try to become involved in this process all we do is bring to a halt the work that the Spirit of God is doing within us. Our part is to willingly and joyfully embrace his dealings in our lives.
Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. (James 1:2‑4, NIV)

It is the difficult circumstances in which we find ourselves from time to time that the Holy Spirit uses to weaken the “natural person.” It is often only when we “come to the end of ourselves” and we have nothing but the Word of God on which we can rely that we begin to find the glory of our inheritance in Christ.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬​

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ephesians 1:17-19

We

Our "Temples" are built only by Grace through Faith in Christ and the Finished work at Calvary Cross where the victory was won (Col. 2:13-15). This "ACT of Faith" allows the Holy Spirit to carry out "both the will and to do of His good pleasure (Phil. 2:13)," that always delivers us unto the Death of Christ, which guarantees us the benefits of Calvary (Rom. 6:3-5, Psalms 103:2) so that the life of Christ can manifest Himself through us (2 Cor. 4:10-12).

The flesh cannot carry out the will of God (what the scriptures ask of us to do).

Any Believer who tries or attempts to do what the scriptures ask of us to do in their own ability, strength, will power, or any other self-sufficiency way, becomes a "transgressor" - Gal. 2:18, Grace stops immediately (Gal. 2:21). The works of the flesh will manifest (the sin nature will come alive - the Law of sin and death). Gal. 5:19-21, Rom. 8:2

Only through faith in the Cross of Christ does the Holy Spirit give one eyes to see (John 3:3-5), therefore when we begin trusting in anything other, we go blind (2 Peter 1:9) once again. Peter wrote that because he experienced it first hand, Gal. 2.

where in the Bible does anyone teach to have faith in the cross ? It actually doesn’t it says to put faith in Jesus Christ who suffered on the cross for sin.

The cross is something our lord did for us who believe in him . What you are saying is equivalent to telling ancient Israel “ don’t worry about what it was God said , just have faith in the atonement sacrifice “

There’s no salvation apart from the gospel Jesus preached

“Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:47-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They couldn’t see him either , but she did her many sins and all . she wasn’t saved by faith in a cross but in the lord , the cross is meant to bring people to him and his word not replace it .

The resurrection should give people assurance that Jesus is the one who is appointed the judge

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

That’s the reason the resurrection is important because prophecy said the Christ would rise from the dead after dying for sins and his word would be the judgements of God forever without change addition or omission.

the one who said “ I’m from God believe my words and you will live I’m going to die for sin and be raised to Life again “

that’s what prophecy foretold so when he rose up everyone understood “ he is the one to hear and be saved , he is the one God sent to bring forth judgement into truth and give light to the world .

a covenant requires first the word to be spoken , and then it requires the testator to shed the blood of that covenant he made by his words. Jesus preached the gospel said it was forever and then said any who believe will be saved . That’s the covenant he made and his blood was shed to seal that forever .

to have faith on the cross isn’t a biblical concept , to have faith in Jesus Christ as the Bible presents him is

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

We


where in the Bible does anyone teach to have faith in the cross ? It actually doesn’t it says to put faith in Jesus Christ who suffered on the cross for sin.

The cross is something our lord did for us who believe in him . What you are saying is equivalent to telling ancient Israel “ don’t worry about what it was God said , just have faith in the atonement sacrifice “

There’s no salvation apart from the gospel Jesus preached

“Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:47-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They couldn’t see him either , but she did her many sins and all . she wasn’t saved by faith in a cross but in the lord , the cross is meant to bring people to him and his word not replace it .

The resurrection should give people assurance that Jesus is the one who is appointed the judge

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭

That’s the reason the resurrection is important because prophecy said the Christ would rise from the dead after dying for sins and his word would be the judgements of God forever without change addition or omission.

the one who said “ I’m from God believe my words and you will live I’m going to die for sin and be raised to Life again “

that’s what prophecy foretold so when he rose up everyone understood “ he is the one to hear and be saved , he is the one God sent to bring forth judgement into truth and give light to the world .

a covenant requires first the word to be spoken , and then it requires the testator to shed the blood of that covenant he made by his words. Jesus preached the gospel said it was forever and then said any who believe will be saved . That’s the covenant he made and his blood was shed to seal that forever .

to have faith on the cross isn’t a biblical concept , to have faith in Jesus Christ as the Bible presents him is

The Cross of Christ is synonymous with the same meaning as the Lamb of God, the Blood of Jesus, the Finished Work, Crucified with Christ, in Christ, baptized into Jesus Christ, baptized into His Death, Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, Calvary, planted together in the likeness of His Death, Atonement, and Sacrifice.

If it doesn't point to this above, it is a bag of flesh talking (a form of Godliness). 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 23, 1 Cor. 2:2

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Cross of Christ is synonymous with the same meaning as the Lamb of God, the Blood of Jesus, the Finished Work, Crucified with Christ, in Christ, baptized into Jesus Christ, baptized into His Death, Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, Calvary, planted together in the likeness of His Death, Atonement, and Sacrifice.

If it doesn't point to this above, it is a bag of flesh talking (a form of Godliness). 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 23, 1 Cor. 2:2

your making things up in my opinion circular logic to sprint past the salvation laid out for all people .

you know how for instance Paul might say “ you are the children of God but faith “ he’s talking to people who believed the things Jesus preached about the father that is how his children are born believing the gospel

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-37‬ ‭
this is Jesus the son the much announced and promised messiah speaking the truth about the father about believers and about himself the gospel of his eternal kingdom

when we get to Paul and peter and them they are preaching things from that understanding already established. Jesus teachings are about God the father , his son and his children who are given eternal Life All those things he preached before the cross are the very foundation and immutable stone upon which salvation even exists .

the children are born through the son and his word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can’t know God the father without believing the gospel the lord preached

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭

what an invitation sent out to all the world for salvation come to the lord and learn of him and find rest for the soul , a burden that is light and a yoke that wears easy .

Jesus is a teacher for those who hear him

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the only way to the father is through Jesus

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me...

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:1, 6-7, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m all for what he did for us on the cross , that doesn’t in any way imaginable change anything he said pertaining to salvation it makes everything he said about salvation possible and believable

 

[Blik]

What we must do is to get rid of our sin that separates us from our Lord, for sin kills. Isaiah 59:2 but your iniquities have made a separation
between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you
so that he does not hear.

God hates sin, if we accept the Lord within we accept that, we turn our back on our sin and accept God's way. In Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.

The only way to rid ourselves of sin is to accept Christ's payment for them, It isn't the work we do to live without sin that gives us righteousness. But if we still will to sin, if we don't take on Christ's attitude towards sin, we lie about that. Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left .,,,,,,,,,30. For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.