What is your understanding of the consequences of Adam's sin?

[maxwel]

Have to disagree with you there young man.

Ignorance of sin is not a defense. I believe it is true that knowing, willing sins will be held to a higher standard, but the person/people worshiping false idols for instance, are still sinning even though they may not know that they are.

I do not however believe that children under the age of accountability are held responsible for their sin. I believe Christ's Blood covers them and the mentally challenged.

Actually, the bible seems to indicate people know perfectly well they are sinning against God, and they know right from wrong.

If that is the case, then it would be perfectly plausible for me to agree with Tourist here, and say that although humans are born with a corrupted nature, they are actually judged by their own individual sin.

For me, making this distinction seems entirely biblical.

And if people disagree... well... the earth will keep spinning, and sinners will keep sinning.
Little will change if we disagree.



.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Adam/Eve were created in the image / after the likeness of God:

Genesis 1:​

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26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

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27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.​

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Genesis 5:​

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1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;​

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2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.​

Descendants of Adam were begotten in the image / likeness of Adam (after the fall):

Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:​

After Pentecost, born again believers are a new creation in Christ:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

God works on the inward parts of the born again believer and begins to conform the born again one into the image of Christ (a task that will not be completed in this lifetime). However, there is a new heaven and a new earth coming and all believers (both OT and NT) will dwell there, serve well, and see His face:

Revelation 22:​

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2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. ​

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3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: ​

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4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.​

 

[Nehemiah6]

Adam/Eve were created in the image / after the likeness of God

But you have not really addressed the sin of Adam and its consequences. Seth was born with the sin nature and needed to be saved by grace. Neither righteousness nor unrighteousness are inherited, nor can they be attributed on the basis of the parents. As we see in Kings and Chronicles. righteous fathers produced evil sons, and vice versa.

 

[MattforJesus]

What is your understanding of the consequences of Adam's sin?

I am continually surprised by the number of Christians who deny original sin, biblically defined, or misunderstand it.

There are groups that specialize in this (Pelagians and the followers of Charles Finney in particular), however many normal, run of the mill Christians don't really seem to understand the chaos and disruption caused by Adam's sin. And, still others claim that every man is a "fresh Adam" and needs to sin himself before he is accounted as a sinner in God's sight. A simple reading of Romans 5 would refute this notion.

In my opinion, if someone denies original sin, they really can't understand the Bible very well.


Romans 5:15-21 15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(ESV)

No person is responsible for another person's sin, and they are not guilty of another person's sin.

If your father stole a car before you were born does it come upon you and you are guilty of it when you are born.

That does not make sense.

Adam and Eve's sin does not come upon anybody else for that is their sin not anybody else's sin, so we are not born with original sin upon us.

Adam and Eve were created knowing God, and it would of never entered their mind to eat of the tree unless an outside source tempted them.

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she said they could not eat of the tree for that is all she knew and could think.

So Satan tempted her with an alternate reality that God did not tell them that if she ate of the tree that she would be like god knowing good and evil, and she sinned.

Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam by showing him she did not die and nothing bad happened to her, and he sinned.

Then they had a choice between good and evil from then on.

So all of their offspring is born with a choice and Eve is the mother of all living so it covers everybody.

Since we are born with a choice between good and evil we are born not knowing God so we will do wrong before we come to God and repent of our sins, so everybody is a sinner in need of salvation.

But we are born innocent with no sin on our record until we sin because the sin of Adam and Eve does not come upon us.

Which is why the Bible says that the angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones, which they are protected spiritually during the time before accountability, and angels are ministering spirits to the saints those with an innocent nature which would include babies and small children.

For the Bible says all have sinned, done the act, not born with it, and fall short of the glory of God.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

It is not original sin as Adam and Eve's sin that comes upon us as that individual sin they did, but death came upon us who have not sinned according to their sin, testifying that their sin does not come upon us.

Unless you mean the consequences of sin coming upon all people, and not their sin they did coming upon them that makes them guilty.

Because when they say we are born with original sin it seems like they are saying that the sin of Adam and Eve comes upon us, which it does not for that is their sin.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

But you have not really addressed the sin of Adam and its consequences. Seth was born with the sin nature and needed to be saved by grace. Neither righteousness nor unrighteousness are inherited, nor can they be attributed on the basis of the parents. As we see in Kings and Chronicles. righteous fathers produced evil sons, and vice versa.

Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Each generation after Adam/Eve was born the after image/likeness of the generation before. You were born after the image/likeness of your father and moather. I was born after the image/likeness of my father and mother.


Romans 5:

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

At the same time, Romans 5 says that Adam's sin made all humans sinners.

Because sin nature, everyone will sin, it don't mean born guilty, only that because of the sin nature everyone will sin indeed and be guilty.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Death. wages justly earned, not only by and from adam, but by our own selfish desired. did adam sin? what are his wages? do we sin, what are our wages?

Read Romans 5. All men were made sinners through Adam's sin, just like all believers are made righteous through Christ's obedience.

If you reject one, then reject the other, because the parallel is clear.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Because sin nature, everyone will sin, it don't mean born guilty, only that because of the sin nature everyone will sin indeed and be guilty.

Romans 5 says that "condemnation" happened to all men through Adam's sin.

It isn't just physical death; it is spiritual condemnation.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

By the way, it doesn't surprise me much that a lot of people would reject the idea that Adam's sin is imputed to everyone personally, even though Romans 5 clearly teaches it.

The opposite view is Pelagianism of some variety, and Pelagianism is the religion of the natural man. Even Christians have a hard time reasoning according to the Bible, and not their own natural man.

Here's an audio on Pelagianism:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/saplayer/playpopup.asp?SID=12510125392

 

[Grandpa]

"Original sin* is actually a Roman Catholic term which originated with Augustine. But their understanding of its meaning is biblical.

"Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam." (New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia.)

The biblical statement is thus (Rom 5:12): Wherefore, as by one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Some falsely teach that the guilt of Adam was imputed to every human being. That is patently false. God does not hold people accountable for the sins of others -- only for their own sins.

Also, had there been no sin, there would have been no death, because the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).

The guilt of Adam is not imputed to every human being.

The CAUSE of Adams guilt is what is "imputed". The sin "nature".

And what is this sin "nature" or original sin?



The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life.

No one has to be taught these things. No one avoids them. They are inherited from Adam.


Not sure why people have such a hard time accepting this. Its a biblical fact. It can be seen in the smallest child all the way to the oldest adult.

 

[Grandpa]

It is infected with sin from birth.sin is satanic.

Its kind of harsh to call the body satanic.

Seems a little extreme. It has a sort of logic to it but not quite.


God has seen, in His Wisdom, to redeem fallen man from his fallen nature. But He hasn't seen to redeeming satan. So there must be some sort of difference.

The Lord Jesus was born with a body but He didn't sin.

So apparently the body itself is not inherently satanic but what we have inherited from Adam along with the body is what causes sin.

 

[PennEd]

I wouldn't disagree with that possibility, but nothing in the Bible teaches it. Instead, the Bible teaches that all are counted sinners by virtue of Adam's sin.

However, I have no issue with children and the mentally challenged being included under Christ's sacrifice. Perhaps all of those are "elect". I don't know. The Bible doesn't speak on that issue, nor does it teach an "age of accountability".

The inferences that others use are vague, including the age of those who entered the Promised Land (all those under 20 at the time of their rebellion). There's really no solid evidence.

Yes. Children are sinners too. However there is Biblical support that their sin is not imputed to them, and that Christ's blood covers them.
This may be MUCH more literal than we think:
Matthew 19:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


I don't see how you can reckon Paul saying at one time he was "alive" , without understanding that the time he was referring to was when he was a child:
Romans 7:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.


King David fully expected to see his son in the afterlife:
2 Samuel 12:23 New King James Version (NKJV)
23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”


Although we do not know what the age of accountability is, we can be sure that children will be saved. It may differ with each person, or it may be 13, when Jews are Bat and Bar Mitvahed.

 

[Grandpa]

Yes. Children are sinners too. However there is Biblical support that their sin is not imputed to them, and that Christ's blood covers them.
This may be MUCH more literal than we think:
Matthew 19:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


I don't see how you can reckon Paul saying at one time he was "alive" , without understanding that the time he was referring to was when he was a child:
Romans 7:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.


King David fully expected to see his son in the afterlife:
2 Samuel 12:23 New King James Version (NKJV)
23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”


Although we do not know what the age of accountability is, we can be sure that children will be saved. It may differ with each person, or it may be 13, when Jews are Bat and Bar Mitvahed.

I don't think there is really an age of "accountability". But God knows who are His.

Romans 9:11-13
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


A person doesn't work to become a Jacob. Neither does a person sin theirselves into an Esau.

They are born because God has willed it.


I can't tell you that I understand it. I can only tell you that is what the bible says. Too much imagination and philosophy involved in guessing Gods Way and Gods Plan.

 

[PennEd]

I don't think there is really an age of "accountability". But God knows who are His.

Romans 9:11-13
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.


A person doesn't work to become a Jacob. Neither does a person sin theirselves into an Esau.

They are born because God has willed it.


I can't tell you that I understand it. I can only tell you that is what the bible says. Too much imagination and philosophy involved in guessing Gods Way and Gods Plan.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but it doesn't change the point that all children will be saved.

Paul said he was alive, then he died. That has to be the case with all children before an understanding of the Law.
So that leads us to figure out just how old a child has to be, before their sin is imputed to them.

I agree that whatever age that is, is speculative.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The opposite view is Pelagianism of some variety, and Pelagianism is the religion of the natural man.

"Pelagianism is the unbiblical teaching that Adam's sin did not affect future generations of humanity."
https://www.gotquestions.org/Pelagianism.html

1. Without the divine revelation which is found in the Bible, none of us would understand that Adam's disobedience did in fact seriously impact humanity and all of creation.

2, This also confirms the necessity of believing (1) that Adam was indeed the first man ever created, and that the Genesis record is a brief, factual, sober, and historical record, and (2) that the Gap Theory, which claims the existence of a pre-Adamite earth, which was condemned because of sin, is totally bogus.

3. This also confirms that the age of the earth is no more than about 6,000 years, and that a totally biblical chronology has been created, using the date of Adam's creation as the beginning of "the Year of Man" (Anno Hominis, or AH).

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Yes. Children are sinners too. However there is Biblical support that their sin is not imputed to them, and that Christ's blood covers them.
This may be MUCH more literal than we think:
Matthew 19:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


I don't see how you can reckon Paul saying at one time he was "alive" , without understanding that the time he was referring to was when he was a child:
Romans 7:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.


King David fully expected to see his son in the afterlife:
2 Samuel 12:23 New King James Version (NKJV)
23 But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.”


Although we do not know what the age of accountability is, we can be sure that children will be saved. It may differ with each person, or it may be 13, when Jews are Bat and Bar Mitvahed.

All speculation, but I agree it is possible God might save all children.

However, he would not save them because they are sinless, because they bear the guilt of Adam's sin regardless of all else. Adam's sin is imputed to them, and they need a Savior too.

They will be able to proclaim Jesus as their Savior, too, regardless when they died, because they were sinners whether they actually committed an identifiable sin or not.

I don't really care much about debating ages of accountability...if I believed anything like that, I would call it "condition of accountability", though. This would be so that the mentally defective would fall under the same guideline.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The guilt of Adam is not imputed to every human being.

The CAUSE of Adams guilt is what is "imputed". The sin "nature".

And what is this sin "nature" or original sin?



The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh and the pride of life.

No one has to be taught these things. No one avoids them. They are inherited from Adam.


Not sure why people have such a hard time accepting this. Its a biblical fact. It can be seen in the smallest child all the way to the oldest adult.

I'm not sure what you are saying but the guilt and condemnation of Adam's sin was imputed to man, in the same way that Jesus' righteousness is imputed to all saved men per Romans 5.


The text specifically says all men were made sinners by Adam's one act of sin, and that condemnation is the result.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I see by the answers to the poll that most don't agree that mankind is alienated from other men, as well as themselves, due to the Fall.

My position would be that after the Fall, we see the creation shalom (peace, harmony) interrupted.

Five major areas are affected:

1) man's relationship with God
2) man's relationship with fellow man
3) man's relationship with the creation
4) man's relationship with himself
5) man's physical body begins to deteriorate, decay and die

We see that Adam and Eve begin to separate relationally after the Fall, and Adam blames Eve (and God) for his sin. Additionally, we see that problems in marital relationships are part of the "curse". So, this is what I mean by man's relationship with fellow man.

Due to the fact that man is at war with God, he cannot properly reflect God's love to others. His "mirror" is broken because God is no longer the center of his universe, and he is not reflecting God's holiness and love toward other men.

Regarding man's relationship with himself, mankind began to deceive himself due to the entrance of sin into his life. He no longer really knows himself. Jeremiah 17:9 would be an indication of that, plus Adam's attempt to justify himself by blaming his wife. He was deceiving himself into thinking he was right in this situation, and not to blame..which is evidence of self-righteousness.

Anyways that is why I included those two points...very few people apparently agree with me on that, or understood where I was going.

 

[Grandpa]

I'm not sure what you are saying but the guilt and condemnation of Adam's sin was imputed to man, in the same way that Jesus' righteousness is imputed to all saved men per Romans 5.


The text specifically says all men were made sinners by Adam's one act of sin, and that condemnation is the result.

The specific guilt of Adams specific sin is not necessarily passed on from Adam. Is basically what I am saying.

So I am agreeing with the scripture that says the children aren't guilty of their fathers sin.


What I am saying is that Adam passed on his sin nature. The part that naturally causes us to follow the Lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh and the pride of life.

I am making a distinction that maybe isn't made in scripture... To try and understand what Nehemiah6 was saying but still show that original sin and the sin nature is inherited through Adam.

So I am agreeing that all men are made sinners by Adam and that condemnation is the result. And I was trying to agree with Nehemiah6 that the children aren't guilty of their fathers sin at the same time.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The specific guilt of Adams specific sin is not necessarily passed on from Adam. Is basically what I am saying.

So I am agreeing with the scripture that says the children aren't guilty of their fathers sin.


What I am saying is that Adam passed on his sin nature. The part that naturally causes us to follow the Lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh and the pride of life.

I am making a distinction that maybe isn't made in scripture... To try and understand what Nehemiah6 was saying but still show that original sin and the sin nature is inherited through Adam.

So I am agreeing that all men are made sinners by Adam and that condemnation is the result. And I was trying to agree with Nehemiah6 that the children aren't guilty of their fathers sin at the same time.

OK..my conviction is that all mankind was represented by Adam and incur the guilt of his decision to reject God in the Fall.

I do not believe that subsequent sin accrues to the individual, but that Adam acted as our federal head, by virtue of physical birth, and his sin accrues to our account.

For those who accept Jesus as their Saviour, their federal head is Jesus, and his righteous acts are credited to their account. Therefore, they are accounted as righteous because their federal head is righteous.

The rest are condemned because their federal head is not Jesus, and they continue to be represented by their father, Adam. They have not experienced the spiritual rebirth, which brings them under the federal headship of Jesus.

This is, in essence, what Romans 5 is teaching.

The believer is represented by Jesus, and the unbeliever is represented by Adam. As a result, the believer is justified, and the unbeliever is condemned.

Praise be to Jesus, as our covenant head, who delivered believers from the curse of Adam's sin !!!!