WHAT IS SOON TO COME TO PASS IN THIS WORLD - BIBLE PROPHECY
- Thread starter MessageOfTheCross
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth."
The 'hour of trial' is another name for 'the Day of the Lord," which as the scripture states will be coming upon the whole world and which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. However, there is an underlying principle as to why the gathering of the church must take place prior to God's time of tribulation and this principle is Christ. Jesus took upon himself the wrath of God which every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. When we believed, we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and were reconciled to God. Since God's wrath has already been satisfied through Christ, God's wrath no longer rests upon those who believe. Based on this principle, the church must be gathered prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath.
In addition to this, we also have the wedding of the Lamb to His bride/church in Revelation 19:6-8, which demonstrates that the church is already in heaven. Then in Rev.19:14, we have Jesus returning to the earth to end the age and following Him out of heaven will be the bride/church wearing her fine linen, white and clean and riding on white horses. In order to follow the Lord out of heaven, you would already have to be in heaven. We also have the following:
"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
This is an excerpt describing Jesus returning to the earth to end the age and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers, which will be the church who will have previously been resurrected, changed and caught up. This also demonstrates that the church is already in heaven. We also have Jude quoting Enoch:
"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
Once again, the scripture above has the Lord coming down to the earth and coming with Him will be ten thousands of his saints.
The 'hour of trial' is another name for 'the Day of the Lord," which as the scripture states will be coming upon the whole world and which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. However, there is an underlying principle as to why the gathering of the church must take place prior to God's time of tribulation and this principle is Christ. Jesus took upon himself the wrath of God which every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. When we believed, we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and were reconciled to God. Since God's wrath has already been satisfied through Christ, God's wrath no longer rests upon those who believe. Based on this principle, the church must be gathered prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath.
In addition to this, we also have the wedding of the Lamb to His bride/church in Revelation 19:6-8, which demonstrates that the church is already in heaven. Then in Rev.19:14, we have Jesus returning to the earth to end the age and following Him out of heaven will be the bride/church wearing her fine linen, white and clean and riding on white horses. In order to follow the Lord out of heaven, you would already have to be in heaven. We also have the following:
"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
This is an excerpt describing Jesus returning to the earth to end the age and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers, which will be the church who will have previously been resurrected, changed and caught up. This also demonstrates that the church is already in heaven. We also have Jude quoting Enoch:
"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
Once again, the scripture above has the Lord coming down to the earth and coming with Him will be ten thousands of his saints.
-
1
- Show all
There is a lot of twisted presumptions in the above texts.
i agree there is no scripture that indicates a pretrib rapture. i don't believe Gods wrath will be pored out on His faithful, But a time of trouble is coming on this world such as never was before.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
God is able, more then able to save who He wants to save and He doesn't need to mysteriously make people disappear.
Jesus is our salvation, today is the day of our salvation and the time of trouble to come is not an issue for those that are secure in Jesus. If you are Secure in Jesus, you will be willing to give your life for His cause.
If that day comes on you and you are not ready, will your faith hold? but if that day comes, and you know it is a time of trouble such as no other you can prepare today and watch.
Mar_14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
Mat_24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
1Pe_1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
i agree there is no scripture that indicates a pretrib rapture. i don't believe Gods wrath will be pored out on His faithful, But a time of trouble is coming on this world such as never was before.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
God is able, more then able to save who He wants to save and He doesn't need to mysteriously make people disappear.
Jesus is our salvation, today is the day of our salvation and the time of trouble to come is not an issue for those that are secure in Jesus. If you are Secure in Jesus, you will be willing to give your life for His cause.
If that day comes on you and you are not ready, will your faith hold? but if that day comes, and you know it is a time of trouble such as no other you can prepare today and watch.
Mar_14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
Mat_24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
1Pe_1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
Hello TMS!
Yes, you are correct in that God is able to protect His people during the time of His wrath. However, considering the severity and magnitude of God's wrath, He would literally have to put force fields around every believer. I would suggest that you do an indepth study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. It makes more sense that the Lord would fulfill His promise to come and take us back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare, opposed to leaving us here while the seals, trumpets and bowl are taking place. Not to mention the fact that, what would the purpose of Jesus telling us to watch and be ready if His church was going to remain here? We are to be watching and ready so that the thief cannot take us by surprise. Paul, taught the gathering first, followed by the time of wrath.
Just as an example, at the sounding of the first trumpet, a third of the earth and trees are burned up. That can't happen without there being a great amount of fatalities.
At the sounding of the 2nd trumpet an object all ablaze hits one of the oceans killing all of the creatures in that body equaling a third over all the earth. Likewise, all of the ships in that body of water are destroyed equaling a third over all the earth. This will be the result of the giant tidal waves created from that object hitting the sea. How many many people on all of the ships? How many people in the coastal cities on every shore of that body of water will be killed? How far inland will the water travel, 50, 100 or more miles?
At the sounding of the 5th trumpet, an angel from heaven opens the Abyss and releases demonic beings that resemble locusts which have tails and stings like that of scorpions. According to scripture, the only people who are exempt will be the 144,000.
At the pouring out of the 4th bowl the sun will be given power to scorch the inhabitants of the earth, searing the with intense heat. Is God going to create forcefields around the believers within the church with built in air conditioning?
No, I don't think so! It makes more sense that the Lord would remove His church from the earth prior to His wrath in fulfillment of His promise in John 14:1-3, I Thess.4:16-18 and I Cor.15:51-53.
After Paul gave a detailed account of the dead rising and the living being changed and caught up, he said, "Therefore, comfort each other with these words. Likewise, when writing to Titus Paul mentions those waiting for the blessed hope-- the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Suffice to say, if the church was to go through the time of God's wrath, there would be nothing to comfort each other about and it would not be a blessed hope.
No, the Lord is going to keep His promise to gather us prior to His wrath. There would be no reason for the church to be here because when we believed, we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God.
The time of God's wrath is not the same as the trials and persecutions that Jesus said believers would have as a result of our faith. But will be God's direct wrath upon a prideful, arrogant, Christ rejecting world, who continue to willfully live according to the sinful nature. You need to understand the difference between the common trials and persecutions in contrast to the coming wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer
By the time the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments have completed, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. There would be no reason for the church to remain here
Yes, you are correct in that God is able to protect His people during the time of His wrath. However, considering the severity and magnitude of God's wrath, He would literally have to put force fields around every believer. I would suggest that you do an indepth study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. It makes more sense that the Lord would fulfill His promise to come and take us back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare, opposed to leaving us here while the seals, trumpets and bowl are taking place. Not to mention the fact that, what would the purpose of Jesus telling us to watch and be ready if His church was going to remain here? We are to be watching and ready so that the thief cannot take us by surprise. Paul, taught the gathering first, followed by the time of wrath.
Just as an example, at the sounding of the first trumpet, a third of the earth and trees are burned up. That can't happen without there being a great amount of fatalities.
At the sounding of the 2nd trumpet an object all ablaze hits one of the oceans killing all of the creatures in that body equaling a third over all the earth. Likewise, all of the ships in that body of water are destroyed equaling a third over all the earth. This will be the result of the giant tidal waves created from that object hitting the sea. How many many people on all of the ships? How many people in the coastal cities on every shore of that body of water will be killed? How far inland will the water travel, 50, 100 or more miles?
At the sounding of the 5th trumpet, an angel from heaven opens the Abyss and releases demonic beings that resemble locusts which have tails and stings like that of scorpions. According to scripture, the only people who are exempt will be the 144,000.
At the pouring out of the 4th bowl the sun will be given power to scorch the inhabitants of the earth, searing the with intense heat. Is God going to create forcefields around the believers within the church with built in air conditioning?
No, I don't think so! It makes more sense that the Lord would remove His church from the earth prior to His wrath in fulfillment of His promise in John 14:1-3, I Thess.4:16-18 and I Cor.15:51-53.
After Paul gave a detailed account of the dead rising and the living being changed and caught up, he said, "Therefore, comfort each other with these words. Likewise, when writing to Titus Paul mentions those waiting for the blessed hope-- the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Suffice to say, if the church was to go through the time of God's wrath, there would be nothing to comfort each other about and it would not be a blessed hope.
No, the Lord is going to keep His promise to gather us prior to His wrath. There would be no reason for the church to be here because when we believed, we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God.
The time of God's wrath is not the same as the trials and persecutions that Jesus said believers would have as a result of our faith. But will be God's direct wrath upon a prideful, arrogant, Christ rejecting world, who continue to willfully live according to the sinful nature. You need to understand the difference between the common trials and persecutions in contrast to the coming wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer
By the time the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments have completed, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. There would be no reason for the church to remain here
How about we take a critical view of the relevant Scriptures. Frankly nothing else matters. Certainly not Aristotelian or Hegelian logic......or any other philosophical musings for that matter.
No need to post the relevant Scriptures everyone knows what they are.
In many ways the Bible is anti-logic.......the Greeks considered it foolishness.
No need to post the relevant Scriptures everyone knows what they are.
In many ways the Bible is anti-logic.......the Greeks considered it foolishness.
-
1
- Show all
