What is Faith?

[pablocito]

Lots of people think of faith in a sort of works mentality. Like My faith will do the job. However, faith is something gifted by God and did not come from our works. You could substitute the word Jesus for faith and get a little closer to the actual meaning. When the Bible says your faith has saved you, think of it more like your Jesus has saved you. Without him you would not have had the faith because if you have faith it is because he gave it to you. Jesus is called the faithful witness. If you are saved by faith, it was God's action and thank him for it. Ask him for his faith if you want more because he is the source of faith.

I am not going to quote bible references because I am sure you will recognize the words that I am speaking comes straight out of the bible.

Jesus went to the extent of telling the unbelievers in himself (Jesus), that since they could not believe in him, then they should at least believe him, if only for the works that he has done.

Jesus was saying believe me for my works. Works that no other man before or after has ever done. God's ways are past finding out.
Which man has ever walked on water or which man has ever stopped the wind or storm.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Correct. FAITH = BELIEF = TRUST.

Yet we have people trying to complicate things and tie faith into a knot. There is also a group of Christians who insist that saving faith is a gift from God. But since God wants all men to be saved, He would simply give that gift to all (if indeed this was the case). But the truth of the matter is that God has given the Gospel of Christ to mankind in order to generate faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption. Hence "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God (the Gospel). (Rom 10:17; 1 Peter 1:23-25) Therefore sinners are justified by grace through faith + NOTHING.

My Calvinist friends kept telling me the gift is faith rather than everlasting life / salvation, thereby limiting the grace offered of the atonement. However very many times we are told that "the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.". Romans 6:23

If our new friend takes me up on that new challenge, it's more likely that he will discover this profound truth you quoted and something that defies coincidence. I'll leave it at that so I don't rob him of a blessing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus was clear. At the POINT of saving faith, the believer possesses eternal life and shall never perish.

I know that it is possible that we may never be able to reconcile our differences and that is perfectly OK.

I wonder why 2 very straightforward verses seem so hard to accept.

There are hundreds of different sects of Christianity today in the world.

But I am willing to state what I believe and why I believe it.

Which is what I have done.

But first I would like to ask a question.

(By the way fake means feigned and feigned faith is mentioned several times in the bible)

Could you please quote the verses?

Also I am unable to find - "saving faith" in the bible.

But faith IS directly associated with salvation/eternal life.

So the question is how would you interpret this verse. Jesus here was addressing Peter.

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

I don't need to "interpret" the verse. Jesus was clear enough. Jesus prayed that Peter's faith would not fail. And it didn't. His 3 denials weren't a failure of faith, but a failure of courage. And Jesus then told Peter that when he recovered from his guilt, he was to encourage and strengthen his fellow believers.

But none of this is relevant to eternal security.

 

[pablocito]

I am not going to quote bible references because I am sure you will recognize the words that I am speaking comes straight out of the bible.

Jesus went to the extent of telling the unbelievers in himself (Jesus), that since they could not believe in him, then they should at least believe him, if only for the works that he has done.

Jesus was saying believe me for my works. Works that no other man before or after has ever done. God's ways are past finding out.
Which man has ever walked on water or which man has ever stopped the wind or storm.

It's not complicated.
In fact, it's so simple that a child can understand it.
It's like drinking water.
Is that difficult?
It's like eating bread.
Faith is like walking through a door.
How hard is that?
These analogies of faith were given by Jesus to you, personally. He gave the book for each and every person to benefit from in the most profound way.

The term "faith" is the same word for "believe."

If you are sincerely asking, then you will gladly take me up on an easy assignment.
Just read the Gospel of John (KJV).
Take one chapter at a time and underline each time the words believe (th, s, ed,) in it's various tenses is used. Take the number of times and put that at the top of the page of each and every chapter. When you are done, take the total sum and post it here. It should be significant to you if you don't make a mistake. You aren't allowed to use a software program or concordance for the answer. This must be done on a regular hard copy of the King James Holy Bible the long way to be of help. By the end you will know what faith/believe is in a way that will be of great benefit.

Have a blessed weekend.

Health and Happiness

I am starved for good godly people to dissect the bible for the truth, as Jesus states explicitly that you will find him in the scriptures if you search therein for him.

You mentioned the gospel of John, I wouldn't mind going through that book with you word for word, as I have a passion for it.
But to be forewarned is to be forearmed as the book of John is not as simple as you stated above about the term "faith".

I use a software program called e-sword to find words or verses in the bible. I considered myself a computer programming whiz until I gave up all things computer for the word of God. The bible uses the word "search" over and over again when instructing us to search for God or search for the truth within the scriptures.

Commentaries, Concordances and "the like" are off limits to me because the bible is from God and God is more perfect than any man, in explaining his own word.

Finally man-made aids cannot bring you to truth. It has to come directly from God, through his Holy Spirit. Therefore man-made aids are a literal trap into heresy and damnation.

Yes, in times past God used men, but today God gave us his entire word, complete, nothing missing and expects us to do right by him, by not plagiarizing other people's work, often of the devil, but coming front and center, directly before his throne. (Yes, the veil was broken so that we have the right to do so.)

 

[TabinRivCA]

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jms 2:14-17

 

[birdie]

I am not going to quote bible references because I am sure you will recognize the words that I am speaking comes straight out of the bible.

Jesus went to the extent of telling the unbelievers in himself (Jesus), that since they could not believe in him, then they should at least believe him, if only for the works that he has done.

Jesus was saying believe me for my works. Works that no other man before or after has ever done. God's ways are past finding out.
Which man has ever walked on water or which man has ever stopped the wind or storm.

Thanks Pablocito. My post is intended to say that the faith that is used to do good works is from God, not that faith doesn't produce good works. Definitely faith produces good works. That faith originates from God, it is a gift from God is what I am saying. Some people think it originates from themselves, their own good works.

 

[pablocito]

FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus was clear. At the POINT of saving faith, the believer possesses eternal life and shall never perish.

I wonder why 2 very straightforward verses seem so hard to accept.


Which is what I have done.


Could you please quote the verses?


But faith IS directly associated with salvation/eternal life.


I don't need to "interpret" the verse. Jesus was clear enough. Jesus prayed that Peter's faith would not fail. And it didn't. His 3 denials weren't a failure of faith, but a failure of courage. And Jesus then told Peter that when he recovered from his guilt, he was to encourage and strengthen his fellow believers.

But none of this is relevant to eternal security.

I will not confuse the issue here,
You have introduced several words in your explanation:
denial, failure, courage, guilt, encourage and strengthen

The verse simply states:
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

The part of the verse that we are concerned with is:

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for these, that thy faith fail not:

This verse is very simple and one does not need to go into an exposition of the bible to explain it.

I don't need to "interpret" the verse. Jesus was clear enough. Jesus prayed that Peter's faith would not fail. And it didn't. His 3 denials weren't a failure of faith, but a failure of courage. And Jesus then told Peter that when he recovered from his guilt, he was to encourage and strengthen his fellow believers.

But none of this is relevant to eternal security.

I don't need to "interpret" the verse. Jesus was clear enough. Jesus prayed that Peter's faith would not fail. And it didn't. His 3 denials weren't a failure of faith, but a failure of courage. And Jesus then told Peter that when he recovered from his guilt, he was to encourage and strengthen his fellow believers.

But none of this is relevant to eternal security.

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jms 2:14-17

Really, it is a no brainer as Paul says that out of Faith, Hope, Love (charity),
That love is the greatest. (1st Cor 13)

Jesus himself said a new commandment I bring unto you.
Greater love hath no man, than a man lay down his life for his brethren.

John in 1st John says that love is everything.
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

You have hit the nail on the head. I certainly do not like beating around the bush or having hit and miss trauma.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I am starved for good godly people to dissect the bible for the truth, as Jesus states explicitly that you will find him in the scriptures if you search therein for him.

You mentioned the gospel of John, I wouldn't mind going through that book with you word for word, as I have a passion for it.
But to be forewarned is to be forearmed as the book of John is not as simple as you stated above about the term "faith".

I use a software program called e-sword to find words or verses in the bible. I considered myself a computer programming whiz until I gave up all things computer for the word of God. The bible uses the word "search" over and over again when instructing us to search for God or search for the truth within the scriptures.

Commentaries, Concordances and "the like" are off limits to me because the bible is from God and God is more perfect than any man, in explaining his own word.

Finally man-made aids cannot bring you to truth. It has to come directly from God, through his Holy Spirit. Therefore man-made aids are a literal trap into heresy and damnation.

Yes, in times past God used men, but today God gave us his entire word, complete, nothing missing and expects us to do right by him, by not plagiarizing other people's work, often of the devil, but coming front and center, directly before his throne. (Yes, the veil was broken so that we have the right to do so.)

I didn't know that you already read it. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence. Glad that you are familiar with the Gospel. It has many layers for certain. Each time I read it, I always learn something new. After many times, I noticed a common theme coming up. That's where your question reminded me of that theme. I noticed that just about every cult, denomination and pseudo Christian group agrees that Jesus bore our sins, died, and arose the third day. However, I also noticed that they kept adding additional requirements to man to basically earn salvation. I asked God for complete clarity on what He required of mankind. I was led to the gospel of John, because unlike the other books, it was also written to answer that question to the lost world.

In my search, I read the book a couple times and came up with different numbers, so I made mistakes. Since 7 is the number of completion and perfection, I wanted to be certain by rereading it seven times through and following the description that I shared with you. If I used a Bible search tool, I never would have received the same blessing as I did through diligence of reading it again. That's what I have challenged others to do do on their own for that same reason. I can think of no more important subject to study in any university than the subject of how we receive eternal life from the Savior.

 

[pablocito]

Thanks Pablocito. My post is intended to say that the faith that is used to do good works is from God, not that faith doesn't produce good works. Definitely faith produces good works. That faith originates from God, it is a gift from God is what I am saying. Some people think it originates from themselves, their own good works.

You are 100% right.
Without God we can do nothing, and everything comes from God. God is the source. But not only the source but the beginning and end of everything, including our faith.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I agree with what you said as far as a believer is concerned.
But I have one question for you how does an unbeliever gain faith. Is it possible.?

we can’t brother

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭

if we can’t accept there’s a God first then everything falls apart we can’t believe in his son or redemption. Just as of we can’t accept he rewards those who diligently seek him we can be led to believe we’re not commanded to do anything there are certain things we absolutely have to believe there is one God , who has become flesh and manifest himself in Christ the son which is what identifies by faith the sons of God

now if someone can accept there is a God the. You have the first brick laid of a foundation d are open vessel to receive faith

see if I simply don’t believe in God I can’t possibly accept Jesus or will not bother hearing his word ot has become foolishness to me because I didn’t believe there was a God to begin with how can I believe he sent Jesus ? The son of God ?

but if I believe there’s a God later when I hear the truth I can then believe he sent his son

I hope and pray many who haven’t believed eventually do but only God can reach us but our part is to hear and accept him and believe unto salvstion

as anything I say it’s only my own belief but I don’t think non believers can be saved humans all
Have faith but we place it in the wrong things

non believers have faith in non e natural thy at they see if they can’t see it it’s not real . Christian’s believe what God said Will be later , is more real than what they see now

our e tire faith is based on what God told us is ahead if we believe we believe we have eternal life only because Jesus said it , we believe we are the children of God only because he said it and we believe in him

faith is enough to save the worst of us but without belief there can be no faith in God

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Remember strong meat is for maturity

“But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:14‬ ‭KJV‬

but babes also just digest milk and grow thereby until they are ready for strong meat

“as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he puts it in those types of terms because we understand those terms we can think of how a baby isn’t able to eat steak and potatoes it would choke them and be a detriment. But also a ten year old can’t survive on the proteins and vitamins of only milk

Gods word has milk that produces babes and keeps them strong but then eventually he begins feeding us strong meat thereby our muscles of faith grow up and we start to stand by the faith given us

 

[Magenta]

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe
that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭

Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬
We're on a run
Hebrews 11 6

 

[FreeGrace2]

I explained a verse:
I don't need to "interpret" the verse. Jesus was clear enough. Jesus prayed that Peter's faith would not fail. And it didn't. His 3 denials weren't a failure of faith, but a failure of courage. And Jesus then told Peter that when he recovered from his guilt, he was to encourage and strengthen his fellow believers.

I will not confuse the issue here,
You have introduced several words in your explanation:
denial, failure, courage, guilt, encourage and strengthen

The verse simply states:
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

The part of the verse that we are concerned with is:

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for these, that thy faith fail not:

This verse is very simple and one does not need to go into an exposition of the bible to explain it.

But you asked me to. And I did.

What do you think Jesus meant?

 

[pablocito]

I explained a verse:
I don't need to "interpret" the verse. Jesus was clear enough. Jesus prayed that Peter's faith would not fail. And it didn't. His 3 denials weren't a failure of faith, but a failure of courage. And Jesus then told Peter that when he recovered from his guilt, he was to encourage and strengthen his fellow believers.

But you asked me to. And I did.

What do you think Jesus meant?

Since you want to expand on the scope of the verse, I will just say that Peter's faith failed when he began to sink, when walking on water.

Also Jesus called Peter, Satan, because of his misunderstanding of the will of God, causing him to tempt Jesus.

I only said the things above because you chose to go there, which really is irrelevant to our discussion.

 

[pablocito]

we can’t brother

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭

if we can’t accept there’s a God first then everything falls apart we can’t believe in his son or redemption. Just as of we can’t accept he rewards those who diligently seek him we can be led to believe we’re not commanded to do anything there are certain things we absolutely have to believe there is one God , who has become flesh and manifest himself in Christ the son which is what identifies by faith the sons of God

now if someone can accept there is a God the. You have the first brick laid of a foundation d are open vessel to receive faith

see if I simply don’t believe in God I can’t possibly accept Jesus or will not bother hearing his word ot has become foolishness to me because I didn’t believe there was a God to begin with how can I believe he sent Jesus ? The son of God ?

but if I believe there’s a God later when I hear the truth I can then believe he sent his son

I hope and pray many who haven’t believed eventually do but only God can reach us but our part is to hear and accept him and believe unto salvstion

as anything I say it’s only my own belief but I don’t think non believers can be saved humans all
Have faith but we place it in the wrong things

non believers have faith in non e natural thy at they see if they can’t see it it’s not real . Christian’s believe what God said Will be later , is more real than what they see now

our e tire faith is based on what God told us is ahead if we believe we believe we have eternal life only because Jesus said it , we believe we are the children of God only because he said it and we believe in him

faith is enough to save the worst of us but without belief there can be no faith in God

If I am understanding you right I believe that the following 2 verses summarizes what you are trying to say.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Since you want to expand on the scope of the verse, I will just say that Peter's faith failed when he began to sink, when walking on water.

All of them failed in the demonic storm when they all thought they were going to drown.

Also Jesus called Peter, Satan, because of his misunderstanding of the will of God, causing him to tempt Jesus.

Peter tempted Jesus??

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If I am understanding you right I believe that the following 2 verses summarizes what you are trying to say.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

yeah that would fit right in there

this is what I would quote if I was summarizing

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you know how I quoted this earlier

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

if we first are an atheist who truly can’t accept the existence of God a ( non believer ) it’s impossible for them to believe the gospel and be saved

I was thinking when you asked about a non believer how they could get faith that you were asking about someone who doesn’t believe in Gods existence they don’t believe “he is “ so this assures they can never accept the gospel about him becoming flesh and dying for our sins or being raised to life again

if I’m a non believer it all becomes foolishness in my mind because I’m beginning with the notion “ God doesn’t exist “ this is a foundation that cannot stand or hold the weight of truth

if we are able to believe God exists then when we hear the gospel we can believe the gospel and name of the savior ( not all do ) but if they first can’t acknowledge Gods existence they could never gain faith

if you have a person that can acknowledge God sent his son like you quoted there at that point your going to be saved if you don’t let it go but instead begin hearing what God said will save us which is why the gospel is preached in all the world to all people and that’s what builds faith
it’s different if we’re a young struggling Christian who does believe it’s true and just can’t yet live up to it they have salvation in thoer grasp if they hold tight and if those will let Christs word into thier heart and belief that is where faith comes from and is established

of i don’t believe at all in God I could never accept the gospel of his son

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬
We're on a run
Hebrews 11 6

“A touchdown run “ haha sorry it’s football season

 

[Evmur]

The bible states that -
"Without faith it is impossible to please God"

So what is the definition of faith?

The bible's definition of faith is -

Faith is the substance of things hoped for,
The evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1)

In our world of the 5 senses (and for some who also claim a 6th sense),
the bible's definition is out of this world, and does not fit any model of any known definition on the face of this earth.

Can you imagine sending some astronauts to the moon and telling them, we hope you reach there, because we really don't have any evidence that you will actually reach there.

You probably would have to go to the mental institutions or "like places" to secure any volunteers for such a mission. For sure the millionaire, with his huge wealth here on this earth would not go.

Everyone in today's world in his right state of mind, will want some guarantee for anything he does.

Would you go to your job, working for 8 hours, knowing that there is no guarantee that you will be paid. I doubt it, especially with the scams and greed that people resort to.

I wonder if anyone would like to comment on this definition of faith by the bible, for faith is the requirement into the kingdom of God.

Yet the new birth is tangible and substantial even if it is unseen. What we experience inwardly is a foretaste of the heaven we are promised.

 

[pablocito]

All of them failed in the demonic storm when they all thought they were going to drown.


Peter tempted Jesus??

I think we are seeing the bible through two different lens. Thus I would say that we should at least not debate any more of the bible. The bible warns us against foolish talk or arguments.