What if you die before water baptism?
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Eph 2:8,9 covers it nicely. If Salvation IS BY FAITH, then Baptism has nothing to do with it. I see no reason to assume that Baptism is anything other than a testimonial. why would you thionk getting wet, would have any spiritual significance.
THE REAL PROBLEM COMES IN when people who are Baptized falsely believe that it "Saves them", and don't find out until they're in HELL that the church LIED TO THEM about it.
THE REAL PROBLEM COMES IN when people who are Baptized falsely believe that it "Saves them", and don't find out until they're in HELL that the church LIED TO THEM about it.
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So go ahead and Baptize people and LIE TO THEM about what it does, if you don't know anymore about salvation that that.
I"m perfectly fine with being Baptized AFTER being Born Again, and indwelled by the Holy SPirit - in fact I was. it's O.K. to have your little ceremony, since the SPIRITUAL work is already done.
But teaching being Baptized WITHOUT Being Born again FIRST is a fatal dis-service to people, who may believe that they're O.K., when in fact, they're still DEAD in SIN. Baptism does NOTHING the remedy that situation.
I"m perfectly fine with being Baptized AFTER being Born Again, and indwelled by the Holy SPirit - in fact I was. it's O.K. to have your little ceremony, since the SPIRITUAL work is already done.
But teaching being Baptized WITHOUT Being Born again FIRST is a fatal dis-service to people, who may believe that they're O.K., when in fact, they're still DEAD in SIN. Baptism does NOTHING the remedy that situation.
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To be born again takes water and the Spirit. Jesus Himself said so.
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
After Jesus's sacrifice, that is exactly what we see.
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized(water) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Himself puts baptism before salvation.
Whoever believes (past tense) and is baptized (past tense) will be saved (future tense),
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
After Jesus's sacrifice, that is exactly what we see.
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized(water) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus Himself puts baptism before salvation.
Whoever believes (past tense) and is baptized (past tense) will be saved (future tense),
But if you pay any attenton at all to the context, it's obvious that the "Water" refers to "Natural birth", and the "Spirit" refers to the Born Again experience.
I'm well aware that "Baptismal Regenerationists", try to put "Water Baptism" everywhere, even when it doesn't belong.
SO spread your "Theology" and I'll oppose it.
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I'm not sure that it does.
The passage say unless a man be born of water and spirit he can not enter the kingdom.
If a man was naturally born of water, there would be no reason for Jesus to say this, unless you be born of water.
Since every one has the chance to be saved then all are born naturally, of what you call water that is.
There for the water Jesus must be talking about, must be different.
My belief is all tho you may not agree,
I believe jesus is refering to living water.
But where is that living water, is it in the washing of sins, is it in the forgiveness of sins.
Does the living water come first and then the spirit.
Do some receive the living water, but not the spirit.
Does the living water come from water baptism.
So anyhow, a lot of questions, but also ideas, I know, but with God the list of possibilities are endless.
I would say it probably best to hold water baptism as a sacred act, that leads to being born of living water.
And I would stick to those guns just in case.
As Jesus said go out and baptise.
But you don't have to stick to theese guns,
but I will because the gun of guns, the son of a gun, says his gun can smoke me to heaven or hell.
so I go with honouring his water baptism 😊
The passage say unless a man be born of water and spirit he can not enter the kingdom.
If a man was naturally born of water, there would be no reason for Jesus to say this, unless you be born of water.
Since every one has the chance to be saved then all are born naturally, of what you call water that is.
There for the water Jesus must be talking about, must be different.
My belief is all tho you may not agree,
I believe jesus is refering to living water.
But where is that living water, is it in the washing of sins, is it in the forgiveness of sins.
Does the living water come first and then the spirit.
Do some receive the living water, but not the spirit.
Does the living water come from water baptism.
So anyhow, a lot of questions, but also ideas, I know, but with God the list of possibilities are endless.
I would say it probably best to hold water baptism as a sacred act, that leads to being born of living water.
And I would stick to those guns just in case.
As Jesus said go out and baptise.
But you don't have to stick to theese guns,
but I will because the gun of guns, the son of a gun, says his gun can smoke me to heaven or hell.
so I go with honouring his water baptism 😊
For context...
In John 3:5, Jesus said UNLESS a person is born of water and Spirit they cannot enter the kingdom of God. It is illogical to suggest water was a reference to natural birth. There would be no need to tell people they MUST be born in order to be born again of the Spirit.
Furthermore, scripture reveals the truth. It is no accident that every detailed conversion account includes both water and Spirit. The individuals received the presence of the Holy Spirit and submitted to being baptized in water. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
In John 3:5, Jesus said UNLESS a person is born of water and Spirit they cannot enter the kingdom of God. It is illogical to suggest water was a reference to natural birth. There would be no need to tell people they MUST be born in order to be born again of the Spirit.
Furthermore, scripture reveals the truth. It is no accident that every detailed conversion account includes both water and Spirit. The individuals received the presence of the Holy Spirit and submitted to being baptized in water. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
There are no "Sacraments". They're "just another" phony Roman Catholic invention to keep their sheep in line.
BUT HEY!!! the largest Assembly of God church in our area held a "Splash party", and baptized just over 150 people in morning service. we'll have a Baptism at our place for new converts next week.
BUT HEY!!! the largest Assembly of God church in our area held a "Splash party", and baptized just over 150 people in morning service. we'll have a Baptism at our place for new converts next week.