What if you die before water baptism?

[Pilgrimshope]

that's the one 😋

Yeah how are you getting from there to we can be personal lambs lol? I’m not following that just Jesus explaining that bekievers are going to hear his voice and follow him there are no acrusly sheep and lambs he’s talking about his followers and how they will perceive him like a shepherd they’ll recognize his voice and won’t run away

 

[Mem]

yeah this day you mean ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your right not everyone’s going to receive the same thing someday we should actually hear him now so when this day comes we aren’t telling him our works don’t apply

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not too sure the mindset “ refuse to hear or do anything God taught us to do just say you’re already saved “ is actually the way to be saved but i suooose everyone needs to decide who to believe

Jesus ? His apostles ? Someone else ? We’re all free to choose that’s the idea of sending this to all creation

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He gave everyone the same choice

Shaking the stick of God's wrath at me (as if you could even pick it up) but that won't change my position of what I wrote earlier concerning the referenced verses, Mark 16:15-6. That being believeth and is baptized is namely the same event, i.e. believeth = is baptized and is baptized = believeth. A rose by any other name is still a rose, but nobody is saved baptized in the name of water.

 

[Magenta]

John 10:27-28

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Shaking the stick of God's wrath at me won't change my position of what I wrote earlier concerning the referenced verses, Mark 16:15-6. That being believeth and is baptized is namely the same event, i.e. believeth = is baptized and is baptized = believeth. A rose by any other name is still a rose, but nobody is saved baptized in the name of water.

I was just quoting from the apostle paul and what he wrote to the church of you look at it like he was shaking a stick at then maybe ask yourself why ?

maybe they thought “ it doesn’t matter what we do now we’re all saved “ maybe paup was trying to save thoer souls by telling them “ you better repent “ I mean isn’t that what he’s saying there ?

If you understood what he’s ac try ally doing there you’d get it it’s meant to put a fear in us so if we find ourselves sinning we will repent knowing th at we have to answer for our deeds

He wasn’t shaking a stick he was trying to get the truth into them

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-

It’s just what it is he’s told us so we can repent and hear him and be saved rether than burned up

 

[Pilgrimshope]

John 10:27-28

John 10:27-28

Amen hearing and following Jesus will never fail

 

[Mem]

I was just quoting from the apostle paul and what he wrote to the church of you look at it like he was shaking a stick at then maybe ask yourself why ?

maybe they thought “ it doesn’t matter what we do now we’re all saved “ maybe paup was trying to save thoer souls by telling them “ you better repent “ I mean isn’t that what he’s saying there ?

If you understood what he’s ac try ally doing there you’d get it it’s meant to put a fear in us so if we find ourselves sinning we will repent knowing th at we have to answer for our deeds

He wasn’t shaking a stick he was trying to get the truth into them

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-

It’s just what it is he’s told us so we can repent and hear him and be saved rether than burned up

Mark says in v.16, telling all that whoever does not believe is condemned, following his statement that affectively says, "whoever believes and (by saying believe I mean 'truly' believes as witnessed by the baptism by confirmation of the Holy Ghost' answer in his/her being, 'Amen!') is baptized. That is not 'will be' nor 'was' neither before nor after believing but as.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Mark says in v.16, telling all that whoever does not believe is condemned, following his statement that affectively says, "whoever believes and (by saying believe I mean 'truly' believes as witnessed by the baptism by confirmation of the Holy Ghost' answer in his/her being, 'Amen!') is baptized. That is not 'will be' nor 'was' neither before nor after believing but as.

Alrighty 🙂

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yeah how are you getting from there to we can be personal lambs lol? I’m not following that just Jesus explaining that bekievers are going to hear his voice and follow him there are no acrusly sheep and lambs he’s talking about his followers and how they will perceive him like a shepherd they’ll recognize his voice and won’t run away

lol if.you can't see Christians are lambs we will have to separate 😋

 

[Pilgrimshope]

lol if.you can't see Christians are lambs we will have to separate 😋

alright I guess lol ……”the lambs “and sheep refer to the followers of Jesus his disciples

a it sounds to me like your trying to say one disciple can take another disciples sin onto themselves as some form of atonement or intercession like Jesus did or I’m not sure what

is that what your trying to say ? Because haha I think we may have to part ways if that’s the case 😂

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

alright I guess lol ……”the lambs “and sheep refer to the followers of Jesus his disciples

a it sounds to me like your trying to say one disciple can take another disciples sin onto themselves as some form of atonement or intercession like Jesus did or I’m not sure what

is that what your trying to say ? Because haha I think we may have to part ways if that’s the case 😂

I'm saying lambs can forgive sin 😋

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I'm saying lambs can forgive sin 😋

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-38‬ ‭

were taught that we need to forgive we’re meant to hear and believe

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-38‬ ‭

were taught that we need to forgive we’re meant to hear and believe

this was the lords prayer spoke to his disciples. Which means only the lambs can forgive sin 😊

It's also a prophecy for all lambs

The goats can not forgive sin and spew there camel spit 😋

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-38‬ ‭

were taught that we need to forgive we’re meant to hear and believe

I will postpone are separation 😂

 

[Pilgrimshope]

this was the lords prayer spoke to his disciples. Which means only the lambs can forgive sin 😊

It's also a prophecy for all lambs

The goats can not forgive sin and spew there camel spit 😋

I’m not too sure I understand what you’re saying Jesus taught his disposes to forgive others bekievers will hear that and learn to forgive others because thier lord taught them and they believe in him …

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.


But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we were to shorten this up and make it concise

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, ( repent )

and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. ( receive the gospel )

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to hear our shepherds word and follow where he leads us like sheep would follow a shepherd forgivness is something he taught us the lord who forgave us taught us to forgive.

His sheep will hear and follow thier shepherd

“For ye were as sheep ( it’s a figurative reference for understanding ) going astray;

but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t understand what you’re saying I don’t really know what you mean I’m not saying you’re wrong just I don’t get what you’re saying.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I’m not too sure I understand what you’re saying Jesus taught his disposes to forgive others bekievers will hear that and learn to forgive others because thier lord taught them and they believe in him …

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.


But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we were to shorten this up and make it concise

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, ( repent )

and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. ( receive the gospel )

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to hear our shepherds word and follow where he leads us like sheep would follow a shepherd forgivness is something he taught us the lord who forgave us taught us to forgive.

His sheep will hear and follow thier shepherd

“For ye were as sheep ( it’s a figurative reference for understanding ) going astray;

but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t understand what you’re saying I don’t really know what you mean I’m not saying you’re wrong just I don’t get what you’re saying.

read the lords prayer again,

It says if you forgive sin the lord will forgive you.

Easy peasy

You forgive a sin then the lord takes it away

Do ye follow 😊

 

[Pilgrimshope]

read the lords prayer again,

It says if you forgive sin the lord will forgive you.

Easy peasy

You forgive a sin then the lord takes it away

Do ye follow 😊

I’ve lost interest lol I just quoted that verse to you now your telling me what it says lol let’s find a different subject this one’s going in circles

 

[Pilgrimshope]

read the lords prayer again,

It says if you forgive sin the lord will forgive you.

Easy peasy

You forgive a sin then the lord takes it away

Do ye follow 😊

HE says if you forgive sin of others

Your Father will forgive you of yours

He doesn’t say if you forgive someone else they are now forgiven what if they don’t forgive others lol? Then how would you forgiving them forgive anyone ?

We all have the one judge who taught that and then sent it to all people to hear and believe so when this day comes

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have this testimony

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we aren’t merciful and forgiving that’s the type of judgement we’re going to face if we are forgiving , merciful , non judgemental that’s the king of judgement we’ll receive this is the judge speaking here

“Be ye therefore merciful, ( instruction ) as your Father also is merciful.( example )

Judge not, ( instruction ) and ye shall not be judged result )

condemn not,

and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it isn’t that now we can forgive others and they are forgiven and reconciled to God it’s that he’s teaching us his judgement so we can repent he’s teaching us to not be judgemental people who go around condemning others because we’re Christian’s not to hold grudges against people because he forgave us all our trespasses

Our place is to be the students or the disciples like children learning from thier father how to live life

a Jesus is teaching and shouting “ believe me and live forever with ne in my kingdom “

those things he teaches are the principles of his eternal kingdom it’s a teacher - disciple relationship

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yes his disciples can forgive anyone can forgive when someone offends them we need Gods forgivness to be saved though

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

[

HE says if you forgive sin of others

Your Father will forgive you of yours

He doesn’t say if you forgive someone else they are now forgiven what if they don’t forgive others lol? Then how would you forgiving them forgive anyone ?

We all have the one judge who taught that and then sent it to all people to hear and believe so when this day comes

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have this testimony

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we aren’t merciful and forgiving that’s the type of judgement we’re going to face if we are forgiving , merciful , non judgemental that’s the king of judgement we’ll receive this is the judge speaking here

“Be ye therefore merciful, ( instruction ) as your Father also is merciful.( example )

Judge not, ( instruction ) and ye shall not be judged result )

condemn not,

and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it isn’t that now we can forgive others and they are forgiven and reconciled to God it’s that he’s teaching us his judgement so we can repent he’s teaching us to not be judgemental people who go around condemning others because we’re Christian’s not to hold grudges against people because he forgave us all our trespasses

Our place is to be the students or the disciples like children learning from thier father how to live life

a Jesus is teaching and shouting “ believe me and live forever with ne in my kingdom “

those things he teaches are the principles of his eternal kingdom it’s a teacher - disciple relationship

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yes his disciples can forgive anyone can forgive when someone offends them we need Gods forgivness to be saved though

np billy I will leave it to dawn on you like the Morningstar 😂

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I’ve lost interest lol I just quoted that verse to you now your telling me what it says lol let’s find a different subject this one’s going in circles

I've been quoting you the lords prayer for 3 pages lol 😂

 

[Moses_Young]

Anyone claiming we have to do any work for our salvation - including baptism - is preaching a different gospel.

Yeah because Jesus came to teach everyone faith means never having to hear or obey God lol that will save us and show our faith

John 6:27 -29
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:40-47
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 6:51-57
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.