What if you die before water baptism?

[Pilgrimshope]

understood completely

The way I look at is Jesus did not need to be saved and was baptised.

I views this as two things, one he wanted to show even saved people should get baptised and unsaved people.

Next questions
Is there or should there be a limit on water baptism ?

And has a lost practice been lost amongst the church

So now the different practices

Well if a saved person does water baptism like Jesus then there must be something very special about doing it.

One thing that springs to mind is not a practice of mine, but is a view point of other denominations, that one form of baptism of cleansing of sins is to confess your sins before God to a brother in christ also , which does not include water baptism, the practices of catholics.

Now to the baptism of John the Baptist, when John the Baptist baptized people, did he say confess your sins before God before baptizing And did they confess there sins to John, before he baptized them.

If there was such a legitimate case for this has something been lost.

If there is no legitimate case for this can you show me other wise.

“I views this as two things, one he wanted to show even saved people should get baptised and unsaved people.”

It’s a promise to those who believe brother that’s who’s saved

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”( prophetic)
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus said that is the power of it we trust him so we follow

“Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. ( he speaks it ) And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.

And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.”( this is always the result since he said let there be light )
‭‭John‬ ‭4:50-51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, ( this is unheard of in thier culture yet his loving God touches this man who no one would have dared touch ) saying, I will; be thou clean. ( he speaks it ) And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.”( the result )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full. ….And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. ( he speaks )

( result ) And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:37, 39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. ( he speaks )

And straightway the damsel arose, ( the result ) and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭5:41-42‬ ‭KJV


“And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.( he speaks )

And he that was dead came forth, ( the result ) bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So if he’s speaking to a person the same power flows through the person if they hear and believe and act

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a notice he told Moses something to do and then said something that seems unbelievable at least in comprehensible but Moses acts on his word and it happens as his word declared through Moses hearing and believing and acting


i believe that principle is the same with what he’s said in the gospel about salvation it is sent to all creation not only baptism but all he taught about salvstion and life everlasting in his kingdom

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i believe when Jesus said that it’s also the same if we hear and believe we’ll act and that same assurance and power will always remain because of his words who created all things

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus said He was to be baptized by John in order to fulfill all righteousness.

Yeah and we who need it say “ nah that’s not important lol

 

[Pilgrimshope]

this is how I see it
When you light a candle it is never dark and you do not hide the candle under a bowl,

Nope you put the candle on a stand so that those who come in can see it 😊


This is why Jesus got baptised

a yeah I think undersrsnd what you mean he’s the light of the world after all

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I wonder If Jesus has a choice of preference when washing feet 😊.

He could have hired a manicure but he never, and I wonder if he washed stinky feet too.

How would he have coped with bunions or athletes foot.

I would imagine he wouldn't of cared really.

But with me he would probably have to perform a miracle to stop me from laughing as my feet are so ticklish, I wonder if Jesus would actually stop you from laughing tho 🤣

When he says that he’s talking about serving each other in general th rough our lives as we are able to help and love one another

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus was baptized by John, which was a baptism of REPENTENCE.

Jesus REPENTED of his present life (Head of Mary's family, and a Professional carpenter), and walked out into his teaching ministry.

REPENTENCE has nothing to do with SIN necessarily. It simply means a "change of direction".

John's baptism isn't related to the baptism of Born Again Christians.

i see we’ll your opinion is valid thanks for expressing it

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

a yeah I think undersrsnd what you mean he’s the light of the world after all

Yes that too, I was thinking Jesus Got baptised to encourage baptism in water, and to not be silly about doing it, even if your saved or think your saved 😊

A person whos saved may feel there's no need to show his light or confess there sins before there brother.

But there is Jesus the light of the world being baptized before brothers.

No doubt, John the Baptist would not have said confess your sins to Jesus, as John the baptist was known to be born of the spirit , so John the Baptist knew who he was.

So the light was blessing the light.

Jesus took the sins away of the world of John the Baptist i feal.

My feeling is Many sins had passed through John, when he baptised people.

And when John ducked him under water Jesus actually took all of Johns sins away.

Well that's what I feal.

All tho we have many other ideas to.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

“I views this as two things, one he wanted to show even saved people should get baptised and unsaved people.”

It’s a promise to those who believe brother that’s who’s saved

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”( prophetic)
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus said that is the power of it we trust him so we follow

“Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. ( he speaks it ) And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.

And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.”( this is always the result since he said let there be light )
‭‭John‬ ‭4:50-51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, ( this is unheard of in thier culture yet his loving God touches this man who no one would have dared touch ) saying, I will; be thou clean. ( he speaks it ) And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.”( the result )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full. ….And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. ( he speaks )

( result ) And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:37, 39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. ( he speaks )

And straightway the damsel arose, ( the result ) and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭5:41-42‬ ‭KJV


“And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.( he speaks )

And he that was dead came forth, ( the result ) bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:43-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So if he’s speaking to a person the same power flows through the person if they hear and believe and act

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a notice he told Moses something to do and then said something that seems unbelievable at least in comprehensible but Moses acts on his word and it happens as his word declared through Moses hearing and believing and acting


i believe that principle is the same with what he’s said in the gospel about salvation it is sent to all creation not only baptism but all he taught about salvstion and life everlasting in his kingdom

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i believe when Jesus said that it’s also the same if we hear and believe we’ll act and that same assurance and power will always remain because of his words who created all things

Yes the saving part is faith to

Of course I don't disagree with that,

Faith is given in two ways, and more faith can be given to those who seek it.

But where is the faith if a brother can't trust a brother in baptising you before God,

The spiritual aspect is there in the old testament too.

At what point where they practicing water baptism in the old testament, as in the same same way as John the Baptist.

What was the saving part of water baptism before the resurrection of Jesus

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes that too, I was thinking Jesus Got baptised to encourage baptism in water, and to not be silly about doing it, even if your saved or think your saved 😊

A person whos saved may feel there's no need to show his light or confess there sins before there brother.

But there is Jesus the light of the world being baptized before brothers.

No doubt, John the Baptist would not have said confess your sins to Jesus, as John the baptist was known to be born of the spirit , so John the Baptist knew who he was.

So the light was blessing the light.

Jesus took the sins away of the world of John the Baptist i feal.

My feeling is Many sins had passed through John, when he baptised people.

And when John ducked him under water Jesus actually took all of Johns sins away.

Well that's what I feal.

All tho we have many other ideas too.

That’s an interesting thought thanks for sharing.

You know Jesus says that John the Baptist is Elijah the prophet who Malachi says would come before the dreadful day of the lord came upon Jerusalem

theres some in prophecy about John also he was foretold to immediately precede the messiahs first coming to israel

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes the saving part is faith to

Of course I don't disagree with that,

Faith is given in two ways, and more faith can be given to those who seek it.

But where is the faith if a brother can't trust a brother in baptising you before God,

The spiritual aspect is there in the old testament too.

At what point where they practicing water baptism in the old testament, as in the same same way as John the Baptist.

What was the saving part of water baptism before the resurrection of Jesus

indeed I like alotnof what your saying there and agree

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

If I never hear something how can I believe it ?

“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. A


By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet,

moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:3, 6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

Yeah and we who need it say “ nah that’s not important lol

I don't know what you mean by that... .. but I do believe Jesus did fulfill all righteousness .

 

[Mem]

Is there such a baptism which is done without water?

 

[Mem]

I'm could paint with watercolor, or I could paint with oil, but either way, I'm painting. And it seems to me that this argument is the same as arguing that I'm not painting unless I use watercolor.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

indeed I like alotnof what your saying there and agree

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

If I never hear something how can I believe it ?

“Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. A


By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet,

moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:3, 6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Great points, with the faith part, I was expressing having in faith in confessing your sins to a brother, before God in water baptism, is a sign of faith that you not only want to be forgiven, but you also want the light of the world that exists in brothers to know you have sincerity, 😊

Where else I was going with the faith part is having faith that a brother who is saved also has the authority to be a lamb for the lord,

As in the sense that the sin's you confers to your brother can be passed to your brother, and then the holy spirit takes them from your brother 😊.

I feal John the Baptist was such a person.

I also feal Jesus has left this gift to all. brothers.

But i feal water baptism may be a way to confess from the heart where by the sincerity is heard by the spirit.

Theres are minor sins and major sins.

Minor sins can become serious I feel if there constantly repeated,

I think you call them habitual sins I'm not sure of the spelling,

Like a minor sin may become habitual,

Where they are constantly repeated,

Such sins may require water baptism of sincerity before a brother

Or at least the brother who is in habitual sin should find someone to confess to.

But I kinda of get lost with this idea holding any water excuse the joke 🤣 Because I just don't know really

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't know what you mean by that... .. but I do believe Jesus did fulfill all righteousness .

What I meant was Jesus didn’t need his sins remitted because he did t have any sin sinners need tbier sins remitted was what I meant …..he did it to show his followers the right way consider this progression

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water,

he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,


and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


only sinners need remission of sins and new birth as the children of zgod Jesus didn’t need it he did it to show us the right way

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Great points, with the faith part, I was expressing having in faith in confessing your sins to a brother, before God in water baptism, is a sign of faith that you not only want to be forgiven, but you also want the light of the world that exists in brothers to know you have sincerity, 😊

Where else I was going with the faith part is having faith that a brother who is saved also has the authority to be a lamb for the lord,

As in the sense that the sin's you confers to your brother can be passed to your brother, and then the holy spirit takes them from your brother 😊.

I feal John the Baptist was such a person.

I also feal Jesus has left this gift to all. brothers.

But i feal water baptism may be a way to confess from the heart where by the sincerity is heard by the spirit.

Theres are minor sins and major sins.

Minor sins can become serious I feel if there constantly repeated,

I think you call them habitual sins I'm not sure of the spelling,

Like a minor sin may become habitual,

Where they are constantly repeated,

Such sins may require water baptism of sincerity before a brother

Or at least the brother who is in habitual sin should find someone to confess to.

But I kinda of get lost with this idea holding any water excuse the joke 🤣 Because I just don't know really

Yeah I’m not sure anyone can take on anyone else’s sins for them or anything not sure bout what your saying in this one lol

“for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die,

but after this the judgment:

so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the one sacrifice for the sins of the whole world

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To put any faith in anyone else for your sins isnt something I would be able to really understand

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yeah I’m not sure anyone can take on anyone else’s sins for them or anything not sure bout what your saying in this one lol

“for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die,

but after this the judgment:

so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the one sacrifice for the sins of the whole world

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To put any faith in anyone else for your sins isnt something I would be able to really understand

yeah I'm not sure either but I know the op might be worried, maybe he might think this who knows really

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yeah I’m not sure anyone can take on anyone else’s sins for them or anything not sure bout what your saying in this one lol

“for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die,

but after this the judgment:

so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the one sacrifice for the sins of the whole world

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To put any faith in anyone else for your sins isnt something I would be able to really understand

So what is the point in confessing your sins before man before baptism,

What reason could there be.

Else where it says in the bible you must also repent of any sins you commit to your brother to there face.

Obviously this is a separate matter to water baptism but there is a connection



I've Said A few.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So what is the point in confessing your sins before man before baptism,

What reason could there be.

Else where it says in the bible you must also repent of any sins you commit to your brother to there face.

Obviously this is a separate matter to water baptism but there is a connection



I've Said A few.

The Old Testament promised that God was going to take tbier sins away that’s why everyone was flicking to John , and make a new covenant so they were coming confessing th ier sins like zgod had called for for ages if we don’t acknolwedge we have sinned we can never repent of sin

“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.( look at mark chapter 1)

Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:3-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember Jerusalem was allowed to accept the people who were scattered into the surrounding nations under Greece who were suffering under Babylon Persia then Greece . The Grecian rule slot into four regions and the region of Jerusalem allowed the exiled Israelites under the Babylonian exile to return finally it’s why in Jesus time the region is filled with the Jews again

age said when he brought them back to thier land he would do this

“Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭36:25-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God told them in the old testement he was going to sent remission of sins before the messiah arrived

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So what is the point in confessing your sins before man before baptism,

What reason could there be.

Else where it says in the bible you must also repent of any sins you commit to your brother to there face.

Obviously this is a separate matter to water baptism but there is a connection



I've Said A few.

NOt really seperate it’s the baptism of repentance and remission of sins

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

NOt really seperate it’s the baptism of repentance and remission of sins

it could be a mercy issue or something.

I know of issues from children feeling they won't be forgiven, you know like a child who's been bullied by a father who hates them.

They Run away thinking there father will kill them and won't forgive

Then there made to feel the same way about God.

It could be just believing God Has mercy