What does, “But the one who endures to the end will be saved” mean?

[JohnBiycs]

The faith of Christ involves much more than just sitting in a church pew or writings about it in internet forums.
When Paul wrote those letters they were under dire straights of life and death struggle.

Christ Himself taught take up your cross and follow Him. He didn't say don't do anything. Following takes action not word alone. (James 1:22). Taking up ones cross to follow Christ means to the death.



I believe it means just what it says. The question is knowing what to endure. The verse context is Antichrist and delivering up before the Devil ( Revelation 2:10). Jesus warns there not to fall into apostasy aka idolatry. The whole context of Revelation is Satan standing in Jerusalem claiming to be God to the world. If they do not wait for the truth Christ, they didn't endure until the end.

 

[Icedaisey]

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Barnes:

But the son of perdition - See the notes at Mat_1:1. The term son was given by the Hebrews to those who possessed the character described by the word or name following. Thus, sons of Belial - those who possessed his character; children of wisdom those who were wise, Mat_11:19. Thus Judas is called a son of perdition because he had the character of a destroyer. He was a traitor and a murderer. And this shows that he who knew the heart regarded his character as that of a wicked man one whose appropriate name was that of a son of perdition.

Clarke:

But the son of perdition - So we find that Judas, whom all account to have been lost, and whose case at best is extremely dubious, was first given by God to Christ? But why was he lost? Because, says St. Augustin, he would not be saved: and he farther adds, After the commission of his crime, he might have returned to God and have found mercy. Aug. Serm. 125; n. 5; Psa_146:1-10. n. 20; Ser. 352, n. 8; and in Psa_108:1-13. See Calmet, who remarks: Judas only became the son of perdition because of his wilful malice, his abuse of the grace and instructions of Christ, and was condemned through his own avarice, perfidy, insensibility, and despair.

2 Thessalonians 2.

Well after Judas' suicide and prophecy of the Son of Perdition.

As I said, Judas was not the Son of Perdition.

Your verse calls him a son of Perdition.

 

[DavidTree]

I assume you meant SENT for the Jews only. (I have lots of typos also on here, you can only edit for 5 minutes, which makes no sense, so I don't even try) So my reply would be this.

Matt. 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

When I say Jews I, of course, mean Israel because te Jews are ALL Israel, the bible can prove this in Ezekiel 37.

So, unless Jesus lied, it's not a false doctrine, he would even let the 70 he sent out while he was still alive go unto the Gentiles.

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The rest I can answer like this, I didn't say Jesus was not sent as a Sacrifice for the whole world, I stated Jesus' Ministry was unto the Jews ONLY. We are speaking about DOCTRINES given by Jesus. He was able to be merciful unto the woman WITHOUT Ministering unto her like he ministered unto the Jews. Jesus was sent unto the Jews only, thus just like he refused to even speak to the Samaritan woman,

Yes, your post says 'same' instead of sent - i agree with you on the 5 min window for editing - which is too short

AGREE - Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah and the lineage of David through Mary. He was first sent to His own - Israel.

But not only to Israel according to the flesh - but to the lost sheep of the 'House' of Israel - God's House of Prayer for all nations.
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations. - Isaiah 57: 7 7 is REST

This is who our Lord came for and to - to the Jew first but also to the Gentiles - Isaiah 57
Thus says the Lord:
“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

3Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.

6“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

He was first sent to the Jews, but NOT to the Jew only.

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[DavidTree]

I assume you meant SENT for the Jews only. (I have lots of typos also on here, you can only edit for 5 minutes, which makes no sense, so I don't even try) So my reply would be this.

Matt. 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

When I say Jews I, of course, mean Israel because te Jews are ALL Israel, the bible can prove this in Ezekiel 37.

So, unless Jesus lied, it's not a false doctrine, he would even let the 70 he sent out while he was still alive go unto the Gentiles.

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The rest I can answer like this, I didn't say Jesus was not sent as a Sacrifice for the whole world, I stated Jesus' Ministry was unto the Jews ONLY. We are speaking about DOCTRINES given by Jesus. He was able to be merciful unto the woman WITHOUT Ministering unto her like he ministered unto the Jews. Jesus was sent unto the Jews only, thus just like he refused to even speak to the Samaritan woman,

CONTINUED:
But not only to Israel according to the flesh - but to the lost sheep of the 'House' of Israel - God's House of Prayer for all nations.

Luke 2: 22-32
And when the time of purification according to the Law of Moses was complete, His parents brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord, as it is written in the Law of the Lord: “Every firstborn male shall be consecrated to the Lord”, and to offer the sacrifice specified in the Law of the Lord: “A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.”

Now there was a man in Jerusalem named Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. The Holy Spirit had revealed to him that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. Led by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. And when the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for Him what was customary under the Law, Simeon took Him in his arms and blessed God, saying:
“Sovereign Lord, as You have promised,
You now dismiss Your servant in peace.
For my eyes have seen Your salvation,
which You have prepared in the sight of all people,
a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
and for glory to Your people Israel.”

Our Lord was not only sent to Israel - During our Lord's Ministry on earth, many Gentiles came to believe in Him - He did not reject them.
The woman from canaan with the demn possessed daughter was not seeking Christ for salvation but for her daughters freedom from the demon. And what the Lord say to her?

Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

My House shall be a House of prayer for all nations - The Lord is the House of God - the Temple of God.

 

[DavidTree]

In 1 Corinthians 9:21 (kjv), Paul says that he is under the law to Christ; not that he is under the law of Christ.

For though I am free from all people, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may gain more. 20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without the Law, I became as one without the Law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might gain those who are without the Law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak; I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

 

[ewq1938]

As I said, Judas was not the Son of Perdition.

Your verse calls him a son of Perdition.

No, it says "the son of perdition".

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[justbyfaith]

For though I am free from all people, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may gain more. 20To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without the Law, I became as one without the Law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might gain those who are without the Law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak; I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

In the kjv:

1Co 9:19, For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20, And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law.
1Co 9:21, To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22, To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23, And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

 

[DavidTree]

In the kjv:

1Co 9:19, For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20, And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law.
1Co 9:21, To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22, To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23, And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

your striving over a word that does not change what Paul said - Read it again until you get it.

We are no longer under the law - its gone - it only remains to judge and condemn unbelievers - the Jew first and also to the Gentile.

The Gospel is for believers - the Jew first and also the Gentile.

You who seek to be under the Law are astranged/separated from Christ. Paul used the Law to win those under the Law to Christ.

 

[Icedaisey]

No, it says "the son of perdition"

I said your verse in your post that I quoted calls Judas a Son of Perdition. And it does. From your post above.
Mat_11:19. Thus Judas is called a son of perdition because he had the character of a destroyer. He was a traitor and a murderer.

And your newest verse refers to the Son of Perdition. Which would again be referring to Satan. He entered one of Jesus' Disciples.

Meanwhile the one by whom Jesus was betrayed was Ciaphas who oversaw the whole deal between the temple elders and Judas. Who was paid 30 pieces of silver, the price usually paid to purchase a slave. Judas betrayed Jesus by the intention of Ciaphas and the elders of the Sanhedrin.

The key to knowing Judas was forgiven by Jesus, God, is when we're told of Judas not realizing what he had actually done when giving Jesus the kiss so that he would be arrested.

And Jesus, before he died asked the Father to forgive them, for they know not what they do. That included Judas.

How do we know this? Because Judas was at the last supper and took part in the first Communion.

If Judas was condemned, then so too must Peter be for denying Jesus 3 times, as Jesus foresaw. Matthew 10:33 But whoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 26

 

[ewq1938]

I said your verse in your post that I quoted calls Judas a Son of Perdition.

The verse says THE son of perdition not A son of perdition.

And it does. From your post above.
Mat_11:19. Thus Judas is called a son of perdition because he had the character of a destroyer. He was a traitor and a murderer.

That isn't the text of verse but is commentary from a scholar about the verse.

And your newest verse refers to the Son of Perdition. Which would again be referring to Satan. He entered one of Jesus' Disciples.

Scholars say it's a reference to Judas, not satan in that verse. The term also applies to satan but he is not only one who is son of perdition.

If Judas was condemned, then so too must Peter be for denying Jesus 3 times, as Jesus foresaw.

Scripture condemns Judas but does not condemn Peter.

1: Judas was a devil..................................John 6:70-71
2: Judas was a traitor................................Luke 6:16
3: Judas was a betrayer.............................Multiple scriptures.
4: Judas was a thief..................................John 12:6
5: Judas didn't care for the poor..................John 12:6
6: Judas was spiritually unclean..................John 13:11
7: Judas guilty of a greater sin...................John 19:11
8: Judas is a wicked man............................Psalms 109:6
9: Judas is condemned...............................Psalms 109:7
10: Judas is lost........................................John 17:12
11: Judas is the son of perdition..................John 17:12
12: Judas' prayer is sin................................Psalms 109:7
13: Judas deserves no mercy.......................Psalms 109:12
14: Judas committed suicide........................Matthew 27:5
15: Judas influenced by Satan......................John 13:2
16: Judas had Satan within him....................Luke 22:3-6
17: Judas harmed Christ..............................John 13:18, Psalms 41:9
18: Judas better off never born....................Mark 14:18-2, Matthew 26:24
19: Judas knew he sinned against Jesus........Matthew 27:3-5
20: Judas' habitation to be desolate.............Acts 1:20, Psalms 69:25

 

[Icedaisey]

The verse says THE son of perdition not A son of perdition.






That isn't the text of verse but is commentary from a scholar about the verse.

The verse says a Son of Perdition. When you defended it in a different post you didn't refer to a scholars commentary.
Mat_11:19. Thus Judas is called a son of perdition because he had the character of a destroyer. He was a traitor and a murderer.

 

[Icedaisey]

The verse says a Son of Perdition. When you defended it in a different post you didn't refer to a scholars commentary.
Mat_11:19. Thus Judas is called a son of perdition because he had the character of a destroyer. He was a traitor and a murderer.

And Albert Barnes was not a Scholar, he was a Theologian from Rome. He died in the 1800's.

While Adam Clarke, whose commentary did not include that Matthew verse, was a Bible Scholar and a Methodist Theologian. And also died in the 1800's.

 

[ewq1938]

The verse says a Son of Perdition.

I don't even think can take you seriously anymore.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[ewq1938]

While Adam Clarke, whose commentary did not include that Matthew verse, was a Bible Scholar and a Methodist Theologian. And also died in the 1800's.

LOL...that commentary was on the Matthew verse!

 

[Icedaisey]

LOL...that commentary was on the Matthew verse!

That's not what I was talking about. I think you know that. Or, if not, maybe pay attention so you know what is being said.
From your post #170
That isn't the text of verse but is commentary from a scholar about the verse.( End post)
That Scholar you claimed later was Barnes in his Matthew commentary .

My comment pertaining to your claim Barnes was a scholar:

And Albert Barnes was not a Scholar, he was a Theologian from Rome. He died in the 1800's.

While Adam Clarke, whose commentary did not include that Matthew verse, was a Bible Scholar and a Methodist Theologian. And also died in the 1800's(end post)

 

[Icedaisey]

I don't even think can take you seriously anymore.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Go ahead and believe that. Because to do so you have to accept as part of your belief that the Son of Perdition partook of the first Communion led by Jesus.

 

[ewq1938]

Go ahead and believe that.

Yeah scripture says it so, of course, I will believe it. You have been proven WRONG, over and over.

 

[walknlight]

Hi!

belief that the Son of Perdition partook of the first Communion led by Jesus.

I clearly understand what you are saying:

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Angels

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

^^Those who are His...
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It was after communion , satan entered in Judas, not that he was satan himself....

God Bless!

 

[Gideon300]

I think you need to read God's Word "and not add to it and take away from it."

This Scripture rebukes pre-trib and supports what the LORD did say "He who endures to the end."

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables
2 Timothy 4: 1-5

But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

You need to find out what it means to be saved. You cannot be unborn again. Eternal life is... eternal. Timothy was exhorted to be watchful because he was saved, not so that he could be saved.

 

[Gideon300]

The faith of Christ involves much more than just sitting in a church pew or writings about it in internet forums.
When Paul wrote those letters they were under dire straights of life and death struggle.

Christ Himself taught take up your cross and follow Him. He didn't say don't do anything. Following takes action not word alone. (James 1:22). Taking up ones cross to follow Christ means to the death.



I believe it means just what it says. The question is knowing what to endure. The verse context is Antichrist and delivering up before the Devil ( Revelation 2:10). Jesus warns there not to fall into apostasy aka idolatry. The whole context of Revelation is Satan standing in Jerusalem claiming to be God to the world. If they do not wait for the truth Christ, they didn't endure until the end.

Christians work because they are saved. They do not work to be saved. And the work that God requires? Read John 6:29