What did Jesus write with His finger?

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Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
1,140
980
113
#41
The Pharisees who accused this woman were arrogant beyond belief. They brought this woman before a man they thought to be a real "country bumpkin". Their intent was to publicize his ignorance to everyone around. "Can anything good come out of Galilee?"

They knew Yeshua was not a priest and that the alleged adulteress woman had to be presented to a priest.
They knew the accused had to be presented before the altar, not in the courtyard.
They knew that her husband had to be the one to make the accusation. Only He could do so.
They knew that no one could be executed without at least two witnesses.
They presented no evidence but believed their position (and arrogance) was enough for conviction, all by itself.

And of course the question must be asked, how did they catch her in the very act? It would appear from the lack of witnesses they were trying to use Yeshua to cover up their own guilt. Could this be why Christ did not state her innocence, but also refused her condemnation?

I might also point out Hosea 4:14. God does not accept punishment of an adulterous woman while ignoring the sin of the male as some would believe. His judgments are just.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,652
5,907
113
#42
Considering the scripture never actually says this woman believed in Jesus, or that her sins were forgiven, I am always bothered whenever these scriptures are used in this manner: as there are far better verses that actually emphasize forgiveness and non-judgement.

The emphasis of this story is that the Pharisees were trying to trap Jesus- if they had actually wanted to stone this woman, they probably would have done so... in secret, perhaps, but we do see they are willing to cast stones later on, in spite of the Romans.

I think these verses are best understood in light of the preceding chapter, and the rest of John 8. Jesus is in the process of being rejected as Messiah by his people. In John 7 the people are amazed and everyone is debating about Jesus, and the Pharisees, who want to take Jesus say:

47“Have you also been deceived?” replied the Pharisees. 48“Have any of the rulers or Pharisees believed in Him? 49But this crowd that does not know the law, they are under a curse.” 50Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who himself was one of them, asked, 51“Does our law convict a man without first hearing from him to determine what he has done?” 52“Aren’t you also from Galilee?” they replied. “Look into it, and you will see that no prophet comes out of Galilee.”g

The problem is not the Pharisees Judging this woman (The Pharisees were using her as a prop, and I'm not even sure that they would have stoned her without Jesus)... the problem is they are pre-judging Jesus and saying the people listening to him are under a curse!!!

So in Chapter 8 Jesus is in fact teaching the people, (like they should be doing) and he demonstrates to the Pharisees that he will not be fooled by them. He IS the Messiah, and everything he claims to be, and there was nothing the Pharisees were going to be able to say or do that would throw him off- like everybody else, they needed to repent and follow him.

Then the rest of chapter 8, even the some Jews that believed in him ran into the same problems as the Pharisees once he convicted them of sin... and they tried to kill him, just like the Pharisees were plotting to do. They were willing to believe, up to the point they were told that they were not right with God. So, I think the real lesson of this- John 7, 8, 9... is summed up pretty good at the end of ch.9.
“For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind may see and those who see may become blind.” “If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains.” When we have blind-spots we don't want to shy away from conviction, we want to seek the Lord, so he will heal our bling spots.
“Actually it was Jesus who gave Moses the Law on Mount Sinai, and it was Jesus who wrote the Ten Commandments twice on tablets of stone! And Jesus does not contradict Himself.”

according to the Bible Moses gave the law

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

According to the Bible Moses spoke with an angel in the similitude of God on Mount Sinai

“This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

moses spoke with a similitude of the lord

“With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭12:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

according to the Bible the law was added because of sin , was ordained of angels and given by Moses mediation

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬a

according to the Bible God gave israel
Over to worship angels

“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:41-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

according to the Bible the law came from the disposition of angels

“Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:52-53‬ ‭

about the simplest understanding is to compare what Jesus taught with what Moses taught it’s not complex it just takes us being able to acknolwedge the truth

I showed you moses law of marriage and divorce and what Jesus the lord said

can you acknowledge it’s different even when you look directly at it ?

“And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him. And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

And they said,” Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. ( absolutely what Moses commanded )

And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. ( Jesus is telling them nope don’t follow what Moses taught you )


And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:2-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If I obey Moses I’m going to commit adultery

“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭24:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you can simply acknowledge it’s not the same which anyone who reads can do, it’s not the same to have a law saying go ahead and get divorced and re marry

and another word saying “ don’t get divorced and remarry that’s adultery “


Then we don’t have any argument but if your saying it’s to same to get divorced or start married we would t have much agreement

a once you realize it’s different and you already know Jesus doesn’t contradict himself it Keats you understand all th scripture telling us about the laws ordainement of angels and mediation of Moses but you’d have to acknolwedge the simple truth that it’s contrary to stay married or get divorced and remarry


once you acknolwedge it’s not the same command everything else starts making sense you can actually see Jesus quote what Moses taught and teach the opposite like this

“And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭21:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s a principle in the law equal and exact repayment

“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭19:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is Jesus speaking the contrary truth of God

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: (that’s a quote from Moses law )


but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the opposite it’s not and can’t be made I not the same it’s equal repayment for sin v pardon of sin and not retaliating not holding it against the person


The two testaments are contrary one is for making us guilty without excuse the other is for remitting sin and washing us clean
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,652
5,907
113
#43
I think it's important to understand the difference between a smite on the cheek....


and plucking somone's eye out...




If Will Smith slaps me in the face, I can just get over it like Chris Rock did. Chris handled that moment in a very Christlike manner...except for maybe the profanity, but for the most part, he took it like a man.

If Uma Thurman comes and plucks my eye out... I can forgive her too, but- she's paying for that eye. Maybe not with her own eye, but she if she doesn't settle with me in a timely fashion, we're going to court. If she is a Christian, we are going to the Church elders- who will also tell her to pay for my eye- which she will willingly do if she is a Christian.

The point of Jesus' teaching is that this Law was never about "how we treat people", or "how we treat sinners", This law was about what the government does to a seriously physically violent criminal. It doesn't give you the right to slap someone, just because they slap you; vengeance belongs to the Lord.
Lev19
18Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against any of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32, 35-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Does or would Jesus command such a thing? Or does it sound like this ordination ?

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

who was it that commanded a man to be killed by Gods people because he picked up a stick ? Is that our lord Jesus ?

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is this Jesus ?

Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”

or is this Jesus ? And are they exactly opposite or the same ?

“And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:48‬ ‭

“And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s how opposite Moses law is from the gospel as opposite as imputing sin without excuse or repentance

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-

and preaching the opposite of imputing sin and holding guilty remitting sins and declaring people righteous again the exact opposite preaching salvation through remission of those sins imputed by Moses law on purpose that’s it’s intent and use in the world

i can’t understand how people don’t see the opposite nature of what Moses taught to these people to hold the. Guilty

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gospel however is for Gods beloved children who have been pardoned by the lord not because of any word in the law but because of every word of the gospel