We the new chosen people, are Jews no longer chosen people?

CS1 · Feb 7, 2022

the answer is no. The Jews are still the people of God. Yet they must come by way of Jesus to be saved. God has made a Covenant with Isreal that has never changed. The Geographical location known as Israel is still prophetically relevant, if it was not then Jesus could come back to Clevland. IF the people did not matter Jesus could come back to Muslims

pittsburghjoe · Feb 7, 2022

CS1 said:

It did change ...on The Cross:

Authentic Jews couldn't be Reborn like us ...they couldn't be spiritually resurrected like us ...they couldn't perceive the test we are in. If GOD Sealed a Jew, they had Faith in The City built without hands and were Later resurrected with/after CHRIST.

People that call themselves "Jews" today don't have access to the Image of The Last Adam because they REFUSE The High Priest, Lord JESUS CHRIST.

The City built without hands is The Kingdom of the Body of CHRIST. You can't claim be a Jew with Faith in It after JESUS Arrived! THE KINGDOM IS NOW.

CS1 · Feb 7, 2022

pittsburghjoe said:

That is not what Romans 11:11-24

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [d]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

says nor did Jesus say it FYI Jesus said " You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know because salvation is from the Jews. "

pittsburghjoe · Feb 7, 2022

CS1 said:

That is not what Romans 11:11-24

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [d]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

says nor did Jesus say it FYI Jesus said " You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know because salvation is from the Jews. "

You are just like everyone else pretending 70 A.D. didn't happen. What do you think The City built without hands is about? Yes, they are The Root ...the real Jews are The Root ...not what we have today.

CS1 · Feb 7, 2022

pittsburghjoe said:

FYI 70 AD is not Roman 11:11-24 You are acting Like Jesus should not come back to Israel as HE left it? 70 AD doesn't remove the word of God. You deal with the word of God and Let 70 AD take care of 70 AD

Jocund · Feb 7, 2022

Edify said:

Eph 2:11Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,d but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.

Go back to the old paths.... read your Bibles, those of you who think Israel is cast off.
Romans 10:1 Brothers,a my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.b

Gee whiz, who wrote the 4 Gospels? Jews. Who was Paul? A Jew. Who do you think Peter preached to on the Day of Pentecost? Jews!

It's true there's other people besides Jews who are zealous for God but not according to knowledge.

The question isn't so much "were Jews in the Bible?" The question is how do you know that anyone alive today that calls themselves a Jew has any genuine continuity with Biblical Jews? Some Muslims even refer to themselves as the true Jews and the true Israel. By what measure should we sort true claims from false claims?

Who are Jews? Who is Israel? On what scriptural basis do you determine whether someone's claims are true?

CS1 · Feb 7, 2022

Jocund said:

The question isn't so much "were Jews in the Bible?" The question is how do you know that anyone alive today that calls themselves a Jew has any genuine continuity with Biblical Jews? Some Muslims even refer to themselves as the true Jews and the true Israel. By what measure should we sort true claims from false claims?

Who are Jews? Who is Israel? On what scriptural basis do you determine whether someone's claims are true?

God fully knows it is not for us to Judge

pittsburghjoe · Feb 7, 2022

The City built without hands is The Body of CHRIST ...what more do you need to wakeup to the situation we are in?

Edify · Feb 7, 2022

pittsburghjoe said:

Didn't Paul boast in the flesh that he was an authentic Jew?

Phil 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of Godb and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,c blameless. 7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Paul sounds like an authentic Jew to me.

pittsburghjoe · Feb 7, 2022

Edify said:

Didn't Paul boast in the flesh that he was an authentic Jew?

Phil 3:2 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. 3For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of Godb and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,c blameless. 7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Paul sounds like an authentic Jew to me.

::rolls eyes:: is that all you got? Obviously, Paul was a Jew, things changed after 70 A.D. WAKE UP.

CS1 · Feb 7, 2022

pittsburghjoe said:

and that same Jesus who left in Acts chapter 1 from Isreal LITERALLY, The same Jesus is returning to Isreal Literally. YOu can insult and say I need to wake up, however YOU need to read Roman 11:11-24. IF you have nothing to do or say about that text please carry on with someone else who can't read Chapter 11 of Romans.

thank you

CS1 · Feb 7, 2022

pittsburghjoe said:

You must explain Romans 11:11-24. What was Paul saying, and who was he saying it to, and why did he say it? IF are just going to say "wake up" and not answer or refute the understanding of Romans 11 then let us remain asleep. How about dat?

pittsburghjoe · Feb 7, 2022

CS1 said:

Romans 11 is covered in this video ...jump to 40 min in

Edify · Feb 7, 2022

pittsburghjoe said:

Gee, PBJ, It's reported that John wrote Revelation about 92AD. What are you going to do with that?
Then there's other Jewish converts that followed the Apostles teaching, 2000 Jews saved on the day of Pentecost alone, with Luke stating even more were added to the church in Acts 2.
Most of the known Apostles taught the Jews, while Paul, Barnabas, & Silas went to the Gentiles.
Why dou you think the Apostles preached to mostly Jews before going to gentiles?

cdan2 · Feb 7, 2022

pittsburghjoe said:

I think you have a distorted view of scripture, history, and the present there.

Scripture- God said He does not change, and I take Him at His word (Mal 3:6, Heb 13:8). The Jews are still His chosen people, and the promises made to them still are in effect. To say different is to say God is a liar. He's not.

History- 70 AD is not the most important date with regards to this discussion. 132–136 AD is. The Bar'Kochba revolt, when the Jews came within a hairs breadth of defeating the Romans and throwing them out. They lost because the sect of the notsarim (Nazarenes) left the revolt when Rabbi Akiva declared Shimon Bar'Kochba to be the Messiah. It was decreed that everyone should bow and declare him so, but believers in the Christ, Jesus could not do that. Many were beaten, some killed; all left and went to Pella. In the aftermath Jews were expelled from Israel (the Roman diaspora), and they blamed the believers who left.

Until then believers still worshiped with Jews in synagogue. Everywhere Paul went the first thing he did was go to synagogue. The entire 1st half of Acts is mostly about Jewish believers, and Jews accepting their Messiah. Where you seem to think the "church" miraculously appeared everywhere when the Christ was crucified it was still a Jewish faith filled with mostly genetically Jewish people. Gentiles came in wholesale later. That's Bible history.

History records that the "church" as we know it did not even begin to form until the 1st Council of Nicea in 325 AD. There were many 'churches' preaching MANY different things. They couldn't even agree on whether God was 1, 2, 3, or many more. 3 by the way was the minority opinion, but Constantine said 3, so 3 it was (and is). That was the 1st of many councils that formed your "church." There was no "church" in 70 AD either biblically or historically.

Strong's 1577 ekklésia: an assembly, a (religious) congregation. That is how the term is translated in the Septuagint. But in the NT it is translated 'church.' This gives people like you the wrong idea. God is not a magician there to entertain you by making churches magically appear all over. It took a lot of work and a lot of witnessing by many JEWS to build the physical embodiment of the church of which you speak. And that was the Jewish sect of the Nazarenes, of which Paul was said to be a ringleader (Act 24:5). It was NOT various churches preaching many doctrines not in alignment with scripture.

And while on the topic of scripture: the only scripture available at the time was the Old Testament. There was no "New" Testament- those letters were still being written before 70 AD (probably not after that). And they were not put into canon until much later and over time. But the entire OT was (and is) still in effect and pointed straight to Jesus the Messiah. And it was good for salvation and holy instruction (2 Tim 3:16). Still is, by the way, which brings us to:

The Present- first off, Orthodox Judaism is a sect of Judaism (actually more than 1 sect), not all of Judaism. And when you say "Judaism" you need to be specific. The best term describing all of contemporary Judaism would probably be "Rabbinical Judaism." This is because after 70 AD the minority Sadducees lost their reason to exist as there was no more Temple (the usual reason given), and more importantly they lost the backing of Rome to rule over those pesky Jews. The term "rabbi" is Pharisaical. The Pharisees were by far the largest sect in Judaism in the 1st cen, so after 70 AD they had control (or as much control as anyone can really have). After 135 AD they became worried that Judaism would be lost, so they tightened the reins, so to speak. They instituted many halachic rulings, which is where we get those "613 mitzvoth," or the commandments everyone throws out so "knowledgably." Those are based on biblical interpretation by the later rabbi's, but they are not biblical. But they are considered binding on most of contemporary Judaism. With that in mind, we can say that contemporary, "Rabbinical" Judaism is nothing like the 1st cen Judaism Paul knew.

Many, especially the Orthodox consider Talmud to be equal to or more authoritative than their Bible (which is the OT). We of course would disagree, but many, MANY Christians have their own "Talmud" in the form of the writings of the venerated "church fathers." That's where you get the unbiblical ideas the Jews are not the chosen, or that the Jews must "convert" to Christianity, and that the "church" magically appeared everywhere. God chooses who His people are, and if you are saved you are grafted into a Jewish faith, heir to the promises made to the Jewish people (Rom 11:11-24). And yes, Jews like everyone else must accept Jesus to be saved. But those not saved are still genetically Jews and so beloved by the God who created that people. And if you consider everyone in the world not a Jew or Christian (if you insist on separating the two) are Gentiles, then as a percentage probably more Jews are saved than Gentiles!

I always say "Ignorance does not have to be a terminal condition." Your choice ...

Pilgrimshope · Feb 7, 2022

pottersclay said:

they killed his only son and this was his response

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He didn’t turn his back he kept his word to them the Old Testament isn’t like the new it’s not based on Gods faithfulness to us. it’s based on what he said to them it could have been a blessing and all the blessings could have been fulfilled or based on thier obedience the curses in the law could be fulfilled upon them

It could be one of two results

“Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you this day:

And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭11:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they chose the curse when they killed his son the old covenant isn’t like the new it’s not according to faith it’s according to works of the law you keep Them all your blessed you break any of them then your cursed

but that’s just what the ckvenwnt itself says it is a blessing if they obeyed it and a curse of the did not . That doesn’t say anything about Gods unfaithfulness it says he will keep his word as he says it

israel Had trouble accepting the terms also they also began to say “ God will never curse us like he said we’re his chosen people “ but then again Jerusalem was destroyed with thier temple in 67 ad soon after they killed Jesus

and they were then scattered out from Israel into all nations of the earth like the law said would happen . I would think they should have learned that if God warns of a curse it’s true and we should listen and take it just as the blessings he’s talking about

There’s an earthly israel they are cursed by thier transgressions against the law but God warned then again and again calling them to repent

have them a savior and they accused and plotted and eventually condemned him to death , that’s what the abomination that brings desolation was God sent his begotten they tortured and killed him along with Gentiles and cursed this whole creation

pittsburghjoe · Feb 7, 2022

Edify said:

You Premills can only be literal with everything because you don't have any HOLY SPIRIT Oil in you.

CS1 · Feb 7, 2022

pittsburghjoe said:

LOL hahahaha were told to wake up and you provide a commentary from a Calvinist PASTOR lol.

pittsburghjoe · Feb 7, 2022

CS1 said:

i don't remember him saying anything Calvinist, just watch 13 minutes starting at 40min ...i know you won't because you want your lie of a view so you can sin.

kaylagrl · Feb 7, 2022

CS1 said:

Yep, that's what I said when he tried to pass it off in another thread. lol

We the new chosen people, are Jews no longer chosen people?

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