We need to take another look at The Garden of Eden
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that therefore means that the preceding argument explains why "now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit"
it has nothing to do with chapter breaks, at all.
it has to do with what the "therefore" is there for.
it is there because through faith & our immersion into Him, we died with Christ, and whoever has died is no longer under the dominion/jurisdiction of the law.
therefore even though we still live in this flesh, and the flesh is full of sin, we are crucified to it & have received the firstfruits of the Spirit, which wars against the flesh. therefore we strive to bring our flesh into subjection and walk in righteousness: because we have a spirit that disagrees with our earthly minds and bodies. and therefore since our life is now in the spirit not in the body, there is no condemnation for us. even if our flesh sins, we do not live after it - our life is in the spirit, in Christ - through Whom we died to the flesh, and so far as the law is concerned, we are dead dead dead dead dead. like 12 times in ROmans chapter 6 we are called dead, past tense. ((no i don't give a #%$@ about the chapter numbers i am telling them to you for your own benefit so you can go read)).
we are not saved because we are "sinless" -- we are saved because Jesus Christ took away the power of sin, which is the law. through His death we are set free; through His resurrection we will be fully redeemed when we also are resurrected.
that full redemption is not yet - even for those of us who have received His Spirit - we wait for it; all creation waits for it. i have posted Romans 8:23 several times no to remind you of the fact.
i am not excusing sin.
i am relating the facts of the gospel to you.
it has nothing to do with chapter breaks, at all.
it has to do with what the "therefore" is there for.
it is there because through faith & our immersion into Him, we died with Christ, and whoever has died is no longer under the dominion/jurisdiction of the law.
therefore even though we still live in this flesh, and the flesh is full of sin, we are crucified to it & have received the firstfruits of the Spirit, which wars against the flesh. therefore we strive to bring our flesh into subjection and walk in righteousness: because we have a spirit that disagrees with our earthly minds and bodies. and therefore since our life is now in the spirit not in the body, there is no condemnation for us. even if our flesh sins, we do not live after it - our life is in the spirit, in Christ - through Whom we died to the flesh, and so far as the law is concerned, we are dead dead dead dead dead. like 12 times in ROmans chapter 6 we are called dead, past tense. ((no i don't give a #%$@ about the chapter numbers i am telling them to you for your own benefit so you can go read)).
we are not saved because we are "sinless" -- we are saved because Jesus Christ took away the power of sin, which is the law. through His death we are set free; through His resurrection we will be fully redeemed when we also are resurrected.
that full redemption is not yet - even for those of us who have received His Spirit - we wait for it; all creation waits for it. i have posted Romans 8:23 several times no to remind you of the fact.
i am not excusing sin.
i am relating the facts of the gospel to you.
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ok, you are clearly not understanding my conversation, and apparently have no idea what Romans 6-8 is saying.
i'll keep trying:
we are immersed into Christ through faith. not of works. of faith.
therefore when Christ died we died with Him.
we are dead.
dead.
dead.
and we only live now because of His resurrection.
these are spiritual definitions of life and death, not carnal ones.
the law is spiritual.
the law has no jurisdiction over the dead. that is plain as day in the opening paragraph of Romans 7. there is no getting around it.
therefore we are not under any condemnation - the power of sin is the law.
we are not under any condemnation because we are dead with regard to the flesh. we have been crucified with Him.
we have a spirit in us that wars against our own flesh.
that means we are not our flesh.
the flesh is condemned already, but God has separated it from us, giving us new life in His Spirit.
we are no longer carnally minded, but spiritually minded.
that is not a result of our works, but a supernatural change God works in us because of our faith.
it is because of that supernatural work of God that we walk after the Spirit.
it is our reasonable service to war against the desires of our flesh and keep ourselves from sin now.
that is not how we get ourselves to 'walk in the Spirit' it is the natural result of us being translated into the Spirit.
salvation is not by our works. not by our intention. not by our desire. not by our will.
salvation is by God's mercy.
rebirth is a supernatural work that happens to us not something we do to ourselves.
i'll keep trying:
we are immersed into Christ through faith. not of works. of faith.
therefore when Christ died we died with Him.
we are dead.
dead.
dead.
and we only live now because of His resurrection.
these are spiritual definitions of life and death, not carnal ones.
the law is spiritual.
the law has no jurisdiction over the dead. that is plain as day in the opening paragraph of Romans 7. there is no getting around it.
therefore we are not under any condemnation - the power of sin is the law.
we are not under any condemnation because we are dead with regard to the flesh. we have been crucified with Him.
we have a spirit in us that wars against our own flesh.
that means we are not our flesh.
the flesh is condemned already, but God has separated it from us, giving us new life in His Spirit.
we are no longer carnally minded, but spiritually minded.
that is not a result of our works, but a supernatural change God works in us because of our faith.
it is because of that supernatural work of God that we walk after the Spirit.
it is our reasonable service to war against the desires of our flesh and keep ourselves from sin now.
that is not how we get ourselves to 'walk in the Spirit' it is the natural result of us being translated into the Spirit.
salvation is not by our works. not by our intention. not by our desire. not by our will.
salvation is by God's mercy.
rebirth is a supernatural work that happens to us not something we do to ourselves.
Dude, you are not dead to anything ...you are still doing evil deeds.
Do any of you get that this Scripture is exactly what you are doing? You don't want Light on your deeds because they would need reproved. This is getting painful watching you guys behind your blindness.
John 3:19-20
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Do any of you get that this Scripture is exactly what you are doing? You don't want Light on your deeds because they would need reproved. This is getting painful watching you guys behind your blindness.
John 3:19-20
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
the policy is to please **ahem** not start threads about it, because the subject has engendered so much unlovely behaviour.
here is where you can read the 'official' statement about it:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/hyper-grace-and-preachers-of-the-doctrine-on-cc.143507/
here is where you can read the 'official' statement about it:
https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/hyper-grace-and-preachers-of-the-doctrine-on-cc.143507/
if you think John is a liar, or the scripture is set against itself, or the context of John's little epistle is how many witnesses a person has about their own self awareness, then i am not the one who has a problem; you have a problem - and you would be the one who does not understand the scripture, not me.
let that bit sink in, bro
you can't possibly know the things you have accused her of
you can't possibly know the things you have accused her of
and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Is this your honest anwer? I'll try again, Do you believe Jesus "cleanses us from all unrighteousness"?
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Maybe the reason why you didn't answer is because you know that if He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, that would make us righteous, without sin, due to the abstinence of all unrighteousness, right?
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Maybe the reason why you didn't answer is because you know that if He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, that would make us righteous, without sin, due to the abstinence of all unrighteousness, right?
“Like one of us” after eating from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil even though Adam and Eve were made in the image of God to begin with, but now are suddenly “Like one of us” after eating the fruit.
This is where it gets fun because we can learn all sorts of fascinating things about ourselves and God from this passage alone.
This is where it gets fun because we can learn all sorts of fascinating things about ourselves and God from this passage alone.
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