Was the crucifixion that Jesus endured the worst possible suffering a human could experience?
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you did not have to, In your questioning, it was very evident. You were very much apprehensive in accepting many Biblical answers.
That is fine, however, you are not Biblically taught or know Christ. You continue to allude to my direct questions to you.
Have you had an abusive experience?
Who is Jesus to you? Do you know Him?
would you like to?
That is fine, however, you are not Biblically taught or know Christ. You continue to allude to my direct questions to you.
Have you had an abusive experience?
Who is Jesus to you? Do you know Him?
would you like to?
Along with the sins committed against Jesus during his earthly ministry, David said,
Against Thee, Thee only, I have sinned Psa.51:4
So when people do terrible things, like the torture of girl VickyK mentioned, they are hurting God also. God has been grieved more than any human, except for Jesus, who is God.
Against Thee, Thee only, I have sinned Psa.51:4
So when people do terrible things, like the torture of girl VickyK mentioned, they are hurting God also. God has been grieved more than any human, except for Jesus, who is God.
You made a choice which was meant to be a significantly life changing decision for you without understanding what that choice really meant because someone close to you chose to 'convert'. Your motivation behind your choice was based off your attachment to this other person and your choice did not possess the same sincerity as the choice of this other person. Things do not need to remain this way.
The uncreated Creator loves you and is still waiting to be reunited with you. Yeshua (Jesus) has already paid the price. All you have to do is accept him as your redeemer. When you believe, you will be indwelled by the Holy Spirit and become a new creation. You will be aware of G*d's presence; there will be no reversing this. Now is the time to choose for yourself...not just because someone else close to you chose to do it.
The uncreated Creator loves you and is still waiting to be reunited with you. Yeshua (Jesus) has already paid the price. All you have to do is accept him as your redeemer. When you believe, you will be indwelled by the Holy Spirit and become a new creation. You will be aware of G*d's presence; there will be no reversing this. Now is the time to choose for yourself...not just because someone else close to you chose to do it.
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Hi Vicky,
In response to this question and after reading the horrific case of the young Japanese woman that was posted, I couldn't help but think of another terrifying story of rape, torture, and murder -- right in the Bible.
I don't know if you've ever read Judges 19 -- "A Levite and His Concubine."
I apologize if you are familiar with all of this, but the Levites were specially set apart to be the priests and representatives of God Himself to His people. And in this story, a Levite travels to a city where a stranger offers him shelter. In the evening, all the men from the town demand surround his house and demand that this visitor be brought out to them for their own purposes.
Instead, the Levite himself shoved his concubine out the door and said, "Here, take her instead." Judges 19:25-28 says that her abusers tortured her throughout the night, then finally let her go at daybreak. She was somehow able to make her way back to the house, "falling with her hands on the threshold." In the morning, the Levite saw her and coldly said, "Get up and let us be going." And the Bible says, "But. there. was. no. answer."
I was a young teen when I first read this, and it chilled me to the bone. I remember being troubled about it for a very, very long time, and honestly, it still bothers me today. I could not believe that God would allow something like this to happen, especially from one of His own priests.
Now I realize that one night is no comparison to the 40+ that the young Japanese woman in the link you provided suffered, but my point is that God understands, and has seen the depth of human suffering.
In fact, when David had to choose a punishment directly from God, and God sent a destroying angel after David made his choice, it got to a point where even God Himself couldn't take watching this happen any longer and finally told the angel, "It is enough; now restrain your hand." (1 Chronicles 21:7-17.)
I don't know why God allows some to suffer so much. I don't know why He sometimes saves and sometimes remains silent. But for some reason, He allows what He chooses to allow, and He stops what He chooses to stop. I'm not saying that as a human being, I am particularly happy with that, but I know as His follower, I have to accept His sovereign choices.
I grew up in Christian schools and circles all my life, and I have heard both students and adults ask the same question you are asking. I even know one woman who told me she continually brought it before the Lord that she felt Jesus' suffering on the cross was extremely short-lived compared to the many years of her own personal suffering.
One thing that my school teachers and pastors told us that has always stuck with me is that we, as humans, can't fully understand, but must remember that Jesus was not only going through physical torture and death, but also carrying the punishment for the spiritual weight of the world -- the consequence of each and every sin, for every human being, past, present, and future -- and we will never know what that was like for Him.
I'm sure it's a torturous pain that only God knows the measure of, and that, no matter how much we suffer as humans, we have no way of truly understanding, even though what some people bear is unbearable for us to even think about.
Have you ever felt a spiritual burden for a friend, loved one, or even someone you don't even know? I can think of one time in particular when I felt a burden for a friend, and I cried for days (and I'm not normally a crier.) They were in a situation where they were making a terrible choice that was not going to end well. But they had their mind made up, and all I could do was to pray and pour my heart out to God. I was absolutely miserable for at least 3 days. I am not trying to say at all that this can be compared to other's suffering, let alone to Jesus, but I'm just saying, spiritual burdens can be just as, and sometimes even more painful than physical torture.
I think I can empathize with the question you're trying to ask, Vicky. I know I've tried to ask God a similar things many times in the past. But I think back to the terrible pain I felt for that friend, and then try to imagine how Jesus must have felt when carrying that pain for every person and ever sin that was ever committed, along with the physical and emotional torture of being publically declared a criminal and suffering the most brutal form of punishment the world at that time had to offer.
Whatever the amount or degree that He suffered was, it was enough for God to accept it as the sacrifice that would save the entire world.
I don't have the answer to your question though, and I'm sorry.
Do you ever bring it directly to God? And what does He say to you? We have no true way of knowing what it was really like for Jesus, but your heart is seeking a better grasp of both Him and His ways. Iff you bring it to Him, I know He is faithful in walking with us, even though we might not fully understand.
Keep seeking, and don't give up. I have the same questions I've been asking God all my life, and I may never have the answers, but I know to keep on seeking. (Matthew 7:7-12)
Blessings to you, Vicky, and welcome to the forum.
In response to this question and after reading the horrific case of the young Japanese woman that was posted, I couldn't help but think of another terrifying story of rape, torture, and murder -- right in the Bible.
I don't know if you've ever read Judges 19 -- "A Levite and His Concubine."
I apologize if you are familiar with all of this, but the Levites were specially set apart to be the priests and representatives of God Himself to His people. And in this story, a Levite travels to a city where a stranger offers him shelter. In the evening, all the men from the town demand surround his house and demand that this visitor be brought out to them for their own purposes.
Instead, the Levite himself shoved his concubine out the door and said, "Here, take her instead." Judges 19:25-28 says that her abusers tortured her throughout the night, then finally let her go at daybreak. She was somehow able to make her way back to the house, "falling with her hands on the threshold." In the morning, the Levite saw her and coldly said, "Get up and let us be going." And the Bible says, "But. there. was. no. answer."
I was a young teen when I first read this, and it chilled me to the bone. I remember being troubled about it for a very, very long time, and honestly, it still bothers me today. I could not believe that God would allow something like this to happen, especially from one of His own priests.
Now I realize that one night is no comparison to the 40+ that the young Japanese woman in the link you provided suffered, but my point is that God understands, and has seen the depth of human suffering.
In fact, when David had to choose a punishment directly from God, and God sent a destroying angel after David made his choice, it got to a point where even God Himself couldn't take watching this happen any longer and finally told the angel, "It is enough; now restrain your hand." (1 Chronicles 21:7-17.)
I don't know why God allows some to suffer so much. I don't know why He sometimes saves and sometimes remains silent. But for some reason, He allows what He chooses to allow, and He stops what He chooses to stop. I'm not saying that as a human being, I am particularly happy with that, but I know as His follower, I have to accept His sovereign choices.
I grew up in Christian schools and circles all my life, and I have heard both students and adults ask the same question you are asking. I even know one woman who told me she continually brought it before the Lord that she felt Jesus' suffering on the cross was extremely short-lived compared to the many years of her own personal suffering.
One thing that my school teachers and pastors told us that has always stuck with me is that we, as humans, can't fully understand, but must remember that Jesus was not only going through physical torture and death, but also carrying the punishment for the spiritual weight of the world -- the consequence of each and every sin, for every human being, past, present, and future -- and we will never know what that was like for Him.
I'm sure it's a torturous pain that only God knows the measure of, and that, no matter how much we suffer as humans, we have no way of truly understanding, even though what some people bear is unbearable for us to even think about.
Have you ever felt a spiritual burden for a friend, loved one, or even someone you don't even know? I can think of one time in particular when I felt a burden for a friend, and I cried for days (and I'm not normally a crier.) They were in a situation where they were making a terrible choice that was not going to end well. But they had their mind made up, and all I could do was to pray and pour my heart out to God. I was absolutely miserable for at least 3 days. I am not trying to say at all that this can be compared to other's suffering, let alone to Jesus, but I'm just saying, spiritual burdens can be just as, and sometimes even more painful than physical torture.
I think I can empathize with the question you're trying to ask, Vicky. I know I've tried to ask God a similar things many times in the past. But I think back to the terrible pain I felt for that friend, and then try to imagine how Jesus must have felt when carrying that pain for every person and ever sin that was ever committed, along with the physical and emotional torture of being publically declared a criminal and suffering the most brutal form of punishment the world at that time had to offer.
Whatever the amount or degree that He suffered was, it was enough for God to accept it as the sacrifice that would save the entire world.
I don't have the answer to your question though, and I'm sorry.
Do you ever bring it directly to God? And what does He say to you? We have no true way of knowing what it was really like for Jesus, but your heart is seeking a better grasp of both Him and His ways. Iff you bring it to Him, I know He is faithful in walking with us, even though we might not fully understand.
Keep seeking, and don't give up. I have the same questions I've been asking God all my life, and I may never have the answers, but I know to keep on seeking. (Matthew 7:7-12)
Blessings to you, Vicky, and welcome to the forum.
Yes.
I certainly never said in any way that God somehow approves of rape, though, being about 15 when I first read this story, it took some time to learn more about God's justice.
In a subsequent post, I also explained exactly why I used this example - it was simply because it had similarities to case of the Japanese girl that the OP linked - and the context was actually part of the reason why I used it.
God knows the depths of the worst of human actions and suffering. Only He could know if Jesus suffered more than anyone else, and whatever the answer is, He accepted that amount of Jesus' suffering for our sins.
I certainly never said in any way that God somehow approves of rape, though, being about 15 when I first read this story, it took some time to learn more about God's justice.
In a subsequent post, I also explained exactly why I used this example - it was simply because it had similarities to case of the Japanese girl that the OP linked - and the context was actually part of the reason why I used it.
God knows the depths of the worst of human actions and suffering. Only He could know if Jesus suffered more than anyone else, and whatever the answer is, He accepted that amount of Jesus' suffering for our sins.
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G*d made us capable of practicing critical thinking skills and we can tell that the eternal suffering of multitudes compressed into any measure of time and poured out as judgement on one person is greater than any ordinary measure of pain someone might otherwise experience in their life.
Omnipotent G*d can take the eternal judgement of the multitudes of the generations of humanity and compress the sum of those judgements into a measure in time because of who he is and only Yeshua (Jesus) could take the judgement for all of us.
Omnipotent G*d can take the eternal judgement of the multitudes of the generations of humanity and compress the sum of those judgements into a measure in time because of who he is and only Yeshua (Jesus) could take the judgement for all of us.
I'm late to the party here. But it is a very interesting question.
I would have to say that crucifixion in and of itself is probably not the worst form of torture death although it is certainly among the top.. I don't think we will know what is the worst kind of death penalty..no one has come back to tell us.
However that's not really the point. The point is God appointed his son to die. Crucifixion was the form Rome used for its so called detestable law breakers. The fact that God the Father poured out His wrath for all those saved past,present and future upon his son on the cross tells us that it is a far greater punishment than anyone man will receive. And that is simply that each person will only receive his own punishment not for the many like our Lord Jesus.
1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Thess 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 5:8-9
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Hebrews 2:17
Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
So the point is. no matter how bad hell is, you will only receive your own punishment. Not that of other on top of your own.
Romans 2:5
But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed
But here is something to remember and cherish:
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
I don't know you VickyK but I pray the Lord Bless's you and you come to know His Love.
I would have to say that crucifixion in and of itself is probably not the worst form of torture death although it is certainly among the top.. I don't think we will know what is the worst kind of death penalty..no one has come back to tell us.
However that's not really the point. The point is God appointed his son to die. Crucifixion was the form Rome used for its so called detestable law breakers. The fact that God the Father poured out His wrath for all those saved past,present and future upon his son on the cross tells us that it is a far greater punishment than anyone man will receive. And that is simply that each person will only receive his own punishment not for the many like our Lord Jesus.
1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Thess 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Romans 5:8-9
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Hebrews 2:17
Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
So the point is. no matter how bad hell is, you will only receive your own punishment. Not that of other on top of your own.
Romans 2:5
But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed
But here is something to remember and cherish:
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
I don't know you VickyK but I pray the Lord Bless's you and you come to know His Love.