Was Paul an apostle or a disciple?

[Pilgrimshope]

The law of Moses, giving laws in stone, did not change the spirit of the law. In fact the law as it was given in the new covenant did not change the spirit of the law. It was the same law, just first given in hard and fast rules that could be followed and at the same time they were followed, it could break the spirit of the law. As an example: you could not work on the Sabbath, that law didn't change, but use this law in stone not to work and break the law to love others as yourself. The law in our hearts improved the law in stone.

Both the tree of knowledge and the tree of life (sin and Christ) were planted in the garden of Eden and all in that garden was good. Adam and Eve were not to partake of the tree of knowledge, but to live entirely with the good but they disobeyed. Their disobedience had nothing to do with God's creation of the tree of knowledge.

Nothing of God changes ever, from Genesis to Revelation, not if we look for the spirit of God in all scripture. Jesus is scripture. Paul is scripture. Scripture agrees with scripture.

you find no difference in Jesus from everyone else ? Yea it’s all scripture .

brother a few posts ago you agreed that Moses taught a contrary law from Jesus. I showed you the beginning , the change in moses law , and the change back to the gospel .

you are missing it. We mankind changed from what God created to what Satan manipulated.

that’s why the law changed because the people went from the image of God without sin , to sinners who had wicked hearts d a constant pull to sin.

the law of Moses came because of that me was temporary until God would make the people new again in Christ .

I’m not even sure what you mean by the spirit of the law doesn’t change , God doesn’t change ect

are we talking about what’s in the Bible ?

the Old Testament law is like God was speaking to known felons he already knew this about them

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats why the law treats them as it does immediately Stone the sinners to death and hang them on a tree it’s like a radocal Prison law for felons and repeat criminals who you know will never change God said this about them continually through the Old Testament .

the New Testament however sees us new born children and teaches us as a father would his children rather than a warden would teach a prison

you are completely missing what I’m saying we changed , from the beginning , so avoid changes our law to preserve us until the new covenant would come to remove our sinful nature d restore us back to the beginning being made in Vods image through Christ and his word which I’m sorry brother by is contrary in almost every way you don’t raise a child on prison house rules you teach them in the lovong home very differently so they don’t go into the prison system

God doesn’t change we agree . Man however sis change for the worse and God then began working out our salvation the first step was the mosaic law ot was Tom last until Christ came with the true law of God the light

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4‬ ‭

when the priesthood changed from melchezidek in Abraham’s day to the levites under Moses law the law changed also , and when the priesthood changed back to melchezideks order from the levites the law changed back as well

it’s because man changed d was lost and God desired to save us so he fulfilled his own word in order to remove the death sentance it held over sinners

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Please, please don't shout with print. You can emphasize with underline, or bold but please don't shout.

No ones shouting lol

this is devolving into silliness and misperceptions and argument bro that’s beneath us honestly to wallow in that stuff I’m just staring my argument to you and it’s pretty apparent you aren’t buying so I think it’s okay for us to move on with no ill will sometimes things do t come to agreement and it’s alright because we’re just in a discussion we aren’t trying to teach doctrine and disqualify one another , but imperfect minds seeker better understanding

at least that’s my position I’m gonna let my argument stay where it’s at I feel I’ve made a solid case

 

[Blik]

I think when man became sinners then God established the law for sinful dying man to live under until Jesus came with salvation

It is important to understand the law. There was law before Moses wrote law in stone on the mountain, law and order was part of creation. Writing the law down in stone did not change the law, but the true law of God is the spirit of the law. We are given that with the new covenant.

The central theme of the entire scripture is the salvation of man from the death that sin brings to him. That is the word spoken by John in the gospel of John. The word and Christ is the same. If Christ was not from the beginning, then the major bulk of scripture (the entire old testament) is for nothing.

 

[Blik]

you find no difference in Jesus from everyone else ? Yea it’s all scripture .

brother a few posts ago you agreed that Moses taught a contrary law from Jesus. I showed you the beginning , the change in moses law , and the change back to the gospel .

you are missing it. We mankind changed from what God created to what Satan manipulated.

that’s why the law changed because the people went from the image of God without sin , to sinners who had wicked hearts d a constant pull to sin.

the law of Moses came because of that me was temporary until God would make the people new again in Christ .

I’m not even sure what you mean by the spirit of the law doesn’t change , God doesn’t change ect

are we talking about what’s in the Bible ?

the Old Testament law is like God was speaking to known felons he already knew this about them

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats why the law treats them as it does immediately Stone the sinners to death and hang them on a tree it’s like a radocal Prison law for felons and repeat criminals who you know will never change God said this about them continually through the Old Testament .

the New Testament however sees us new born children and teaches us as a father would his children rather than a warden would teach a prison

you are completely missing what I’m saying we changed , from the beginning , so avoid changes our law to preserve us until the new covenant would come to remove our sinful nature d restore us back to the beginning being made in Vods image through Christ and his word which I’m sorry brother by is contrary in almost every way you don’t raise a child on prison house rules you teach them in the lovong home very differently so they don’t go into the prison system

God doesn’t change we agree . Man however sis change for the worse and God then began working out our salvation the first step was the mosaic law ot was Tom last until Christ came with the true law of God the light

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4‬ ‭

when the priesthood changed from melchezidek in Abraham’s day to the levites under Moses law the law changed also , and when the priesthood changed back to melchezideks order from the levites the law changed back as well

it’s because man changed d was lost and God desired to save us so he fulfilled his own word in order to remove the death sentance it held over sinners

From the viewpoint of God who is spirit, God does not change. From the viewpoint of the flesh, all is change. God sees the circumcision of the heart, flesh sees circumcision of the flesh and tells us law is changed. God sees feeding the heart and man sees feeding the stomach and God says nothing is changed and man says all is changed.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It is important to understand the law. There was law before Moses wrote law in stone on the mountain, law and order was part of creation. Writing the law down in stone did not change the law, but the true law of God is the spirit of the law. We are given that with the new covenant.

The central theme of the entire scripture is the salvation of man from the death that sin brings to him. That is the word spoken by John in the gospel of John. The word and Christ is the same. If Christ was not from the beginning, then the major bulk of scripture (the entire old testament) is for nothing.

Who said Christ wasn’t from the beginning ? It’s in this quote I left for you

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not an argument I’m making of course he’s from the beginning so I’m. It sure where you are going with that conclusion .

You should consider this

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:

for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-23, 28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Moses never promised the holy spirit never promised resurrection , never promised remission of sins , no one ever made the promised land under it they all died for thoer sins against God

It’s often hard to consider thoughts but if you study what Paul has taught about the law and faith , and James teachings about it you will find it’s a yoke and burden no one in Christ is meant to bear but to believe the gospel becomes freedom and eternal life

Moses taught us to freely divorce if we’re unhappy , and freely remarry at will that’s not the lords word what Jesus said is .

“Stay married unless someone commits fornication . And remarriage for any other cause is adultery “

It’s that way with everything what Jesus said was always going to be the law even Moses said it

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


This covenant made with Abraham was 430years before Moses law seperated isreel from all people Abraham’s promise had melchezidek as priest who blessed gave Abraham communion in genesis 14 ,

“And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭14:18-20‬ ‭

Moses covenant which was added after this because of sin isn’t what the gospel is about its a different covenant so it has different priests ( levites ) a different ordination ( the unforgiving angel I showed you ) it has a different mediator ( Moses )

it’s what was before spoken to Abraham not what’s in Moses book of law or on the tablets of stone that’s ministration of death not life

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:7, 9, 11, 13-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law of Moses can’t help a born again person it’s for the old man to put them to death

 

[Blik]

Who said Christ wasn’t from the beginning ? It’s in this quote I left for you

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s not an argument I’m making of course he’s from the beginning so I’m. It sure where you are going with that conclusion .

If all agree that Christ was from the beginning, then all agree that God the Father used Christ to save the saints before God fulfilled this salvation and made it perfect.