Was Adam Made Holy

[Whispered]

I understand you posted to posthuman, not me.

However, you qualified your "choose to ignore Genesis in part or in full" statement to posthuman by stating "that is the option of the saint reading"

According to you, any "saint" who disagrees with you is choosing "to ignore Genesis in part or in full".

According to you.
Please don't presume to tell me what I mean to say to someone else because you interpret what I wrote to your liking.
I suggest you look up, "the", as is applied in English grammar.
Then I suggest you learn that the Christian is considered a saint, in scripture. No longer a sinner.

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Yes, thank you for posting that. As you can see, it does not speak of Eve going to Adam , nor Adam seeking Eve before what transpired in verse 6.

Genesis 3:6 does not tell us Adam was with Eve when she ate. Genesis 3:6 tells us that Eve was with Adam when he ate.

There is no mention of Adam in Gen 3:1 when satan spoke to the woman;

There is no mention of Adam in Gen 3:2-3 when the woman responded to satan;

There is no mention of Adam in Gen 3:4 when satan spoke his lie to the woman;

There is no mention of Adam in Gen 3:5 when satan told the woman that God was withholding something from her.

Verse 6 tells us Adam was with her. If you go into those particulars, you cannot ignore that in those verses we do not read Eve seeking out Adam prior to verse 6. Or vice versa. We learn Adam was with her. With. Preposition.


Additionally, in Gen 3:17 when God pronounces judgment against Adam, He said Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife ...

God does not say "because you have hearkened unto the voice of satan". If Adam had been with Eve when satan spoke to her, Adam would have heard satan's inducement. But Adam did not "hearken" unto satan. Adam "hearkened" unto "the voice of" his wife.[/quote] Eve was beguiled by Satan, and Adam was with her. It doesn't matter that you don't accept the preposition at this point. You are doing all kinds of back flips to ignore the preposition, with.
Adam was with her. He was nowhere else but with her. All those verses preceding verse 6 and none allude, imply, nor state directly where Adam came from so as to be with Eve. That's because Adam was already with her.
When Adam was to be the head of the woman, after being told by God not to eat and Adam did eat, of course God is going to blame Adam for listening to his wife. But Adam first tried to escape his responsibility by putting blame on Eve.

11 And He saith, `Who hath declared to thee that thou [art] naked? of the tree of which I have commanded thee not to eat, hast thou eaten?'

12 and the man saith, `The woman whom Thou didst place with me -- she hath given to me of the tree -- and I do eat.'

13 And Jehovah God saith to the woman, `What [is] this thou hast done?' and the woman saith, `The serpent hath caused me to forget -- and I do eat.'

The word "with" was added by the translators. It does not appear in the Hebrew.
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat [Hebrew 'akal ] and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat [Hebrew 'akal ]
The words I highlighted in red are translated from one Hebrew word ['akal ], which means to eat.

The Hebrew word ['akal ] appears two times in verse 6.

The first time the word ['akal ] is used, it shows Eve eating of the tree after she saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise.

The second time the word ['akal ] is used, it shows Eve with Adam when he ate.
.

That's awfully late coming into your argument. It is also incorrect.
3:6 waTëre häiSHäh Kiy †ôv häëtz l'maákhäl w'khiy taáwäh-hû läëynayim w'nech'mäd häëtz l'has'Kiyl waTiQach miPir'yô waTokhal waTiTën Gam-l'iyshäH iMäH waYokhal
(Source:Hebrew OT - Transliteration - Holy Name KJV Bereshit / Genesis 3 )
The words in the scripture above are defined if you mouse over each of them. Hebrew is divided in parts, with the grammatical application included. iMä, is "with".

No one is responsible for making anyone else "obey the command God gave".

God didn't appear to agree in verse 17. After God cursed the woman to suffer during childbirth, he then cursed Adam for hearkening unto the voice of his wife.

We are only responsible to preach the gospel.

You cannot conflate the great commission with the dynamics of Genesis 3. Well, you can, as you obviously do, but that doesn't make it right.

At the time of Adam and Eve, the only command was Gen 2:16-17 Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam and Eve were one flesh. Verse 24 of chapter 2 in Genesis.
Adam was commanded by God not to eat. Adam was one with his wife. We know Adam told Eve of God's command because Eve told the serpent of God's command. When Adam heard that command first hand from God, we know then that Adam told Eve of it.

We know from Gen 3:2-3 that Eve had some knowledge of God's command because she told satan We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Correct. See above.

I have already explained to you how Eve changed God's Word. We do not know if what Eve repeated to satan was what Adam told Eve; or whether Adam told Eve what God told him and Eve changed God's Word. Scripture does not tell us and I will not presume to guess.

Why not, you're interpolating that Adam wasn't with Eve in verse 6 when she spoke to the serpent.
Yes, I know you explained how Eve changed God's word. However, Eve didn't hear God speak the command. Eve was told the command by Adam. And Eve was simply repeating what she knew of God's command, given her by Adam, when she spoke to the serpent.
She didn't change God's command. She paraphrased to the serpent what she'd been told by Adam, since God didn't directly command Eve not to eat.

Too many characters in this long post/reply. It must be cut into a two part response.

 

[Whispered]

We do not know that Adam "abdicated his responsibility". We know Adam told Eve something because of Eve's discussion with satan.

But we do.

When Adam was with her he should not have followed Eve's leading, but should have held to God's words that were a command spoken directly to Adam. Even if we go with what you guess to be true, though there is no scripture that sustains it, and Eve went and found Adam , or vice versa, and then gave him to eat, Adam should have held to God's command and not eaten of it.

And we cannot say, proceeding with the interpolation that Eve sought out Adam after eating of the fruit, or vice versa, that Adam was naive and did not know he was eating of the forbidden tree. Because when God asked Adam what he had done, he cast the blame on Eve for having eaten. So he knew he had eaten of the forbidden fruit.
How would he know that if he had not been there when Eve was tempted to do so by the serpent? Are we guessing that Eve sought out Adam after, or vice versa, and didn't tell Adam from whence it came? (Verse 12)

Adam "partook of what he knew was forbidden" in order to join his wife after she had eaten.

Yet being the head of the woman, Adam was to obey God. Not the woman.

Adam is a type of Christ ... a foreshadow.

Or, it is because of Adam, through whom sin entered the world, that Christ was made necessary to redeem the world from that sin.

They were only together at the end of verse 6 when Eve gave to Adam.

You want me to deduce from Scripture that Adam and Eve were together when satan approached Eve and yet satan spoke only to Eve ... completely ignoring Adam and Adam was (daydreaming about _____) while his wife was being deceived.

You want me to deduce from Scripture that Adam and Eve were together when Eve changed God's Word from what was spoken in Gen 2:16-17 to what Eve said in Gen 3:2-3 and Adam stood by mutely, never correcting her, or saying one word.

You want me to deduce from Scripture that Adam and Eve were together when satan spoke his lie "thou shalt not surely die" and Adam said nothing.

You want me to deduce from Scripture that Adam stood by and watched Eve eat of the fruit and did nothing to stop her.

That is what you want me to deduce from Scripture.

At this point, no. When you do not deduce what the preoposition, with, means, when it also appears in the Hebrew, I want you to believe as you insist upon. Just do not think to convince me of your beliefs. And I shall also respect that concerning you.
What I'm doing here is hoping to elaborate on the errors that are being introduced into the chapter 3 of Genesis, so that others are able to arrive at their own conclusions after reading. If they do choose to do so.

I want you to deduce from Scripture that Adam was not with Eve ... that satan approached Eve when she was by herself and vulnerable. This is how satan operates and we have other Scripture to show this is satan's m.o. (Matt 4:1-11).

I'll leave you to your belief through your deduction.

I want you to deduce from Scripture that Adam was not with Eve when she ate and, therefore, was unable to stop her from eating.

I want you to deduce from Scripture that Eve was with Adam and gave him to eat and he ate. And Adam ate, not because he did not know it was wrong to eat. Adam ate because his wife had eaten. Adam joined Eve in her fallen state rather than have her be alone in her fallen state. (Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh - Gen 2:24). Adam left his Father ... cleaved to his wife ... and became one flesh with her.

See above.

God did not "curse the couple". That was God's judgment on satan:

Genesis 3:

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I was mistaken in the text of that. It was enmity between Eve and the serpent.
It is odd though don't you think?
The seed of a serpent? Having any relevance or corollary to the seed of a woman?
However, I was not wrong that God cursed Eve in childbirth and Adam to work by the sweat of his brow the soil. (from which he was made)

How about in your Post #597 when you stated Gen 3:5 states Adam ate of the tree?

It is verse 6.
And Adam did eat of the fruit of the tree because he was with Eve (verse 6, even in Hebrew) as she gave him of what she had eaten from that tree.

or in same post when you stated God "curses the couple and says, And I will put enmity between you and the woman..." when God actually cursed satan and said He would put enmity between satan and the woman?

Why are you repeating what you said already, (above)?

Please stop with your accusations. Your accusations do nothing to promote good dialog.

You're confused.

Discussing scripture isn't accusation. Implying a negative intention in my discussions and perspective concerning scripture is accusation.

Even when one is in error, as I was concerning enmity between Eve and what I had said was Adam. It is error.
And please don't think to presume to tell me, if that is your point, that I am not entitled to disagree with others interpretation.

[end of reply] I'm not going to belabor Gen3:6 with you further. I would gently suggest you accept your own advice when you spoke of, we cannot make people.....

 

[posthuman]

I was not wrong that God cursed Eve in childbirth and Adam to work by the sweat of his brow the soil. (from which he was made)

God uses the word curse twice in Genesis 3

He does not call the judgement of the man or the woman a curse.

So, you are wrong.

 

[John146]

When Adam was with her he should not have followed Eve's leading, but should have held to God's words that were a command spoken directly to Adam. Even if we go with what you guess to be true, though there is no scripture that sustains it, and Eve went and found Adam , or vice versa, and then gave him to eat, Adam should have held to God's command and not eaten of it.

With her does not necessarily mean standing next to her. Take for instance, Noah and the animals on the ark.

Genesis 8:1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;

Do you believe the animals were right next to Noah, or simply with him on th3 ark somewhere?

 

[Magenta]

First, Adam was a man and as a man he had the things true about him that are true of all men. Adam was just like you and me. There was one Law don”t eat the knowledge of good and evil. When Adam ate it he became fallen man. This did not mean Adam had never sinned before the Fall because he had.

I do not see any reason to assume that to be true and it most certainly is not written.

 

[Magenta]

No, I am asking PS if he believes God has an adversary (aka satan, aka the devil). I am uncertain whether he believes that satan exists and that it was satan who deceived Eve and who seeks to devour us in our day and time. PS has stated:

"the serpent in the woodpile were her own disobedient thoughts"​

​

"if eve was not born with a disobedient nature, then she soon developed one"​

On the one hand, PS says "satan is the adversary"

On the other hand, PS says "the serpent in the woodpile were her own disobedient thoughts", "if eve was not born with a disobedient nature, then she soon developed one" as if satan did not deceive Eve.

Some people do not believe there is an adversary ... the devil ... satan. Scripture plainly tells us the devil does exist and he relentlessly attacks every good thing God designed for mankind. If we do not believe satan exists, and we think everything satan does to ensnare us is inherent within ourselves, we do not watch out for the bait satan uses to ensnare us.


I am glad and thankful that PS follows the Lord Jesus Christ ... the only way we have to overcome and become victorious over everything satan throws at us is by abiding in the Lord Jesus Christ.

He believes the God portrayed in the OT is Satan.

 

[Nehemiah6]

He does not call the judgement of the man or the woman a curse.

Here's another attempt to suggest that unless everything is stated EXPLICITLY it is not true. It should be perfectly clear to anyone reading the account of the Fall that a curse came upon the whole of creation, particularly the curse of sin and death on humanity.

ROMANS 8
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature [CREATION] waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature [CREATION] was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature [CREATION] itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Shekinahglory]

I do not see any reason to assume that to be true and it most certainly is not written.

Hi magenta , sorry but every bit of this is what is recorded. Adam was Man

I do not see any reason to assume that to be true and it most certainly is not written.

from your highlighted portion I take it that is the portion you believe is not in Scripture. Before the Law was added sin was in the world

 

[Magenta]

Hi magenta , sorry but every bit of this is what is recorded. Adam was Man

Adam was man, this much is true... the rest is assumption and some dead wrong.

from your highlighted portion I take it that is the portion you believe is not in Scripture. Before the Law was added sin was in the world

That is true also though not specific to Adam. It is an assumption you have made.

 

[Whispered]

First, Adam was a man and as a man he had the things true about him that are true of all men. Adam was just like you and me. There was one Law don”t eat the knowledge of good and evil. When Adam ate it he became fallen man. This did not mean Adam had never sinned before the Fall because he had.

Where is it written that before Adam ate of the fruit of the forbidden tree he had sinned.
Chapter and verse please.

Scripture tells where there is no Law sin is not taken into account. Of course this means man sins and doesn’t know he sinned without the Law defining sin for us. When this happened Adam and Eve ate the knowledge and the Law opened their eyes showing them with uncovered, naked, sins.that is why the tried covering the sins. Now the Lord had two lost sheep and that brought Him as the Good Shepherd and He called His sheep they responded (Jn: 10) the Lord then performed the Good news by slaying the Innocent and taking the skin with the shed blood and making clothes for them, a picture of our being covered by His righteousness. We learn what kind of animal the Innocent is fromAbel’s offering the Lamb.all of this is the first revelation of the Gospel, the Good News of Jesus Christ.

The first law given in this world was God's commandment, do not eat of the tree that is in the midst of the garden. (The Book of Genesis chapter 3:3)
When Adam did eat of the forbidden, sin entered the world. Sin was not in the world prior to this. How do we know that? Because after God was finished creating all that he'd made, he looked upon it and judged that it was good. The Book of Genesis chapter 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning-the sixth day.

When we read that sin was in the world before the law, it means that God's simply worded command unto Adam, thou shalt not eat,
was an edict, a command prohibiting Adam to do something. That prohibition would then cause the act of disobedience, eating of the fruit, the act itself , to be sin. Which as we know is transgression of God's law. Sin was not in the world until that commandment unto Adam from God.

 

[Shekinahglory]

Magenta, somehow it won’t let me finish so here is the rest. Romans 5: 13- 14.
the first thing Man needed to know was why he was dying, sin, so sin needed to be revealed. The Law is to

define sin
allow sin to become utterly sinful
condemned the sinner to death
place man in spiritual cell
lead sinner to the Savior for salvation or rejected
lead to the death promised in the Garden.

everything I said about Adam is true. Adam sinned before the Law he just didn’t. know it was sin until he gained the knowledge of good and evil when until that moment all Adam knew was everything was good and he was very good. But there was something else Adam and Eve to see things as they truly are fallen people not under the curse of the Law. Sentenced to death.

 

[ieuan]

Jamo and Garee
Yes, I see Adam made on the 6th day, yet scholars still argue over it.

 

[ieuan]

There was no sin before they ate of the fruit.

There was no death and no procreation, they were like the angels and holy.

After the fall, there was death, and there was procreation when they were sent out.

They were sent out into a fallen creation.

****************
Please note, this arguing is not holy, you said, i said, try and be kinder to each other.
If you feel someone is accusing you, or misrepresenting what you said, please ignore
or couch your answer in brotherly love.

This thread is not for debate but to enjoy sharing God's holy Word, it is not a place
to devoir each other. If you cannot love each other please consider that you may not be saved.

 

[ieuan]

Or sisterly love.

 

[Shekinahglory]

even tho Adam and Eve sinned before they ate none of them caused a problem 1 stealing did not cause them to flee but eating did. Coveting no problem eat a bite and panic and works. A look at what Scripture says shows Adam and Eve side by side sinning. If these were not sins what would you al them. Because something is not explicitly written does not mean it is not there. Other Scripture interprets Scripture teaches what is there and clearly Romans speaks of death reigning from Adam to Moses but without the Law men died as sinners and did not know why. The Law gave them the explanation for those deaths.

 

[Shekinahglory]

There was no sin before they ate of the fruit.

There was no death and no procreation, they were like the angels and holy.

After the fall, there was death, and there was procreation when they were sent out.

They were sent out into a fallen creation.

****************
Please note, this arguing is not holy, you said, i said, try and be kinder to each other.
If you feel someone is accusing you, or misrepresenting what you said, please ignore
or couch your answer in brotherly love.

This thread is not for debate but to enjoy sharing God's holy Word, it is not a place
to devoir each other. If you cannot love each other please consider that you may not be saved.

I appreciate your sentiments but discussing these things is exactly what this is for.

Agree the manner that discussion is conducted under makes the difference

no sin? When Eve said the fruit looked good she was coveting. When she took fruit not belonging to her it was theft. But nothing defined these sins and they were ignorant that they were sins.

 

[Magenta]

even tho Adam and Eve sinned before they ate none of them caused a problem 1 stealing did not cause them to flee but eating did. Coveting no problem eat a bite and panic and works. A look at what Scripture says shows Adam and Eve side by side sinning. If these were not sins what would you al them. Because something is not explicitly written does not mean it is not there. Other Scripture interprets Scripture teaches what is there and clearly Romans speaks of death reigning from Adam to Moses but without the Law men died as sinners and did not know why. The Law gave them the explanation for those deaths.

There was no death until they sinned. The first recorded sin is A&E eating of the forbidden tree.

 

[ieuan]

If the bible doesn't say they sinned, it is wise to accept the fact.
If you feel they did sin, you should have a reason.
But they walked with God, so they could not walk with God if they were sinners.
As soon as they did sin they were condemned by God and the whole human race.

It's not good theology to speculate they sinned, you must have proof and two witnesses.

There was no sin , no rebellion in the garden until Satan entered. Satan the tempter,
Satan wanted to spoil God's creation, and God allowed him that. But there is a remedy for sin
and God provided that in the blood of His son, the prefect propitiation for God's anger.

The garden of Eden was a kind of heaven, something we all wish to see. It was perfect
and Holy and man walked with God, there can be no greater pleasure. And as Adam walked
with God he also worshipped and he conversed. Jesus was there as the Logos, the Word
of God and the Spirit was there and Eve was there. And our Hope is that we will be with God
and behold His glorious face, the Triune God -the Three in One.

 

[Magenta]

There was no sin before they ate of the fruit.

There was no death and no procreation, they were like the angels and holy.

After the fall, there was death, and there was procreation when they were sent out.

They were sent out into a fallen creation.

Adam and Eve were told to multiply before they sinned. Genesis 1:28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Though they did not do so until after they were expelled from the garden

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Questions asked in my last thread "One Talent" were as the title
Was Adam made Holy and did he live there in Holiness
We know Adam fell, but did he live in holiness before his fall.

Request: In replying please do not attack personally or use extreme language
Please do not bring up hurts of the past with other members, leave bitterness
at the door. And for those with axes to grind, please focus on the discussion.

Remember if you bring up law then your answers and questions should reflect
that we are to love one another perfectly as God loves us.

I would prefer to say he was created to Be holy but GOD did give him the Right to listen to HIS VOICE or make his own choice.