Was Adam Made Holy

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#21
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#21
Magenta said:
These verses are also from the KJV: (@JamOn :))

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mark 8:38
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Acts 10:22
And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Revelation 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Those were the only other ones I found (in KJV) with the two words together :)
Click to expand...
yes the angels doing God’s will thus a holy angel.
 
I

ieuan

Guest
#22
#22
Thanks very much Magenta, some helpful verses there.
I encourage visitors to this thread to ask questions
don't be afraid of being embarrassed, we all can grow and learn, I know I do
with some of the discussion points raised. Magenta has quoted verse Luke 9:26, with holy angels in it
here is another verse:
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him,
then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Subhumanoid, I am sorry you have been hurt in the past. I can't protect you on here
but as I understand it you may complain if anyone abuses you to the admins.
I certainly will not abuse you.

These elect angels are holy, there are degrees of holiness within the ranks of angels, for instance the
seraphim and cherubim protect the throne of God from any angle approaching without permission.
They are the highest ranking angels and cannot fall, they cannot even think of sinning and are holy
as are all elect angels in heaven. If an angel sins then it is no-elect and a fallen angel hence a demon
and cannot be restored. Angels are not tempted by the flesh in anyw ay, they do not eat, they do not
procreate, they do not have desire for women. Compared to God they are not like God, they may have
some of His glory, but they wil always remoan servants. We however if we endure to the end will riase
as perfect spirits and judge angels at some time.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#24
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#24
I can’t see God having made angels with who weren’t going to rebel and some
ieuan said:
Thanks very much Magenta, some helpful verses there.
I encourage visitors to this thread to ask questions
don't be afraid of being embarrassed, we all can grow and learn, I know I do
with some of the discussion points raised. Magenta has quoted verse Luke 9:26, with holy angels in it
here is another verse:
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him,
then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Subhumanoid, I am sorry you have been hurt in the past. I can't protect you on here
but as I understand it you may complain if anyone abuses you to the admins.
I certainly will not abuse you.

These elect angels are holy, there are degrees of holiness within the ranks of angels, for instance the
seraphim and cherubim protect the throne of God from any angle approaching without permission.
They are the highest ranking angels and cannot fall, they cannot even think of sinning and are holy
as are all elect angels in heaven. If an angel sins then it is no-elect and a fallen angel hence a demon
and cannot be restored. Angels are not tempted by the flesh in anyw ay, they do not eat, they do not
procreate, they do not have desire for women. Compared to God they are not like God, they may have
some of His glory, but they wil always remoan servants. We however if we endure to the end will riase
as perfect spirits and judge angels at some time.
Click to expand...
Huh I didn’t read where the poster was hurt?
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#25
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#25
Everything falls short of true holiness, thus the best anyone rather human or angel is to be holy to do Gods will for He is the only true Holy.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#26
Jun 11, 2018
3,325
3,689
113
68
#26
ieuan said:
Was Adam made Holy and did he live there in Holiness. We know Adam fell, but did he live in holiness before his fall?
Click to expand...
Hello Ieuan, we know that God made both Adam and Eve "upright" .. Ecclesiastes 7:29, and in His perfect image .. Genesis 1:26-27, so it seems to me that they were "innocent" until the Fall. The question for me about your holiness question is this, what does it mean to be "holy"*:unsure:

*(Is there more to being holy than just being "innocent"? Is being "righteous" also required, for instance?)

Thanks!

~Deut

innocent = never doing wrong/never disobeying God
righteous = always doing what is right/always choosing to obey God's will perfectly
.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#27
Jun 11, 2018
3,325
3,689
113
68
#27
Hungry said:
How did Adam atone for his sin? I think he disobeyed and is probably eternally punished.
Click to expand...
Hi Hungry, God began what is sometimes referred to as "the scarlet thread of redemption" (before He kicked our progenitors out of the Garden) with the sacrifice of the animals that He used to clothe them .. Genesis 3:21. If they both believed that God would save them (and I believe that they did), then their sins were atoned for and they were saved like everyone else has always be saved, by believing God and having faith in Messiah (who was yet to come at that point, but who had already been revealed to our first parents .. cf Genesis 3:15).

~Deut
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#28
Jun 11, 2018
3,325
3,689
113
68
#28
JamOn said:
Everything falls short of true holiness, thus the best anyone rather human or angel is to be holy to do Gods will for He is the only true Holy.
Click to expand...
Hi JamOn, I believe that there are two main classes of angels, fallen/demons and chosen/elect .. 1 Timothy 5:21. If ~all~ angels are fallen/not holy, that means that they are sinners (IOW, neither innocent nor righteous), so how can they stand in the presence of God to serve Him if that is true .. e.g. Matthew 18:10; Luke 1:19 :unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#29
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#29
Deuteronomy said:
Hi JamOn, I believe that there are two main classes of angels, fallen/demons and chosen/elect .. 1 Timothy 5:21. If ~all~ angels are fallen/not holy, that means that they are sinners (IOW, neither innocent nor righteous), so how can they stand in the presence of God to serve Him if that is true .. e.g. Matthew 18:10; Luke 1:19:unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut
Click to expand...
I see it as the ones who obey and the ones who disobey, one is fell and one is upright, God is the chooser of such things.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#30
Jul 31, 2013
37,788
13,546
113
#30
in a commentary Leviticus 1:1 - 5:26, this article of Jewish thought gleans from it the tautology
'impurity is to holiness as death is to life'​

two questions are raised:
  • is this true; is impurity to holiness as death is to life?
  • did Adam have life before he had death?
 
I

ieuan

Guest
#31
#31
Jamon said:

"I’ve done a rather quick search but I haven’t yet found a verse
with the two words holy angels together, not saying it isn’t
anyone have any info on some verses?"

The thing to remember is that the elect angel endured, look up verses with "ELECT"
There are some every good search engines out there, Bible Hub is one.

Angels are holy, but they are not God, good distinction you made, nevertheless they are referred to as holy
and are holy as they do God's will. Holiness is relative to the ultimate holiness of God.

No man has seen God at an time, but angels are in the presence of God.

Angel can blind a man when they appear, they are so bright.

Angels are messengers from God. Many verses speak of the Angel of the Lord (pre-incarnate Christ)
speaking to men.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#32
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#32
posthuman said:
in a commentary Leviticus 1:1 - 5:26, this article of Jewish thought gleans from it the tautology
'impurity is to holiness as death is to life'​

two questions are raised:
  • is this true; is impurity to holiness as death is to life?
  • did Adam have life before he had death?
Click to expand...
Depends on how long he walked without the breath of life, some say it was instantly when he was created yet it could of been for hours I’m leaning to the man who became a living being
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#33
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#33
ieuan said:
Jamon said:

"I’ve done a rather quick search but I haven’t yet found a verse
with the two words holy angels together, not saying it isn’t
anyone have any info on some verses?"

The thing to remember is that the elect angel endured, look up verses with "ELECT"
There are some every good search engines out there, Bible Hub is one.

Angels are holy, but they are not God, good distinction you made, nevertheless they are referred to as holy
and are holy as they do God's will. Holiness is relative to the ultimate holiness of God.

No man has seen God at an time, but angels are in the presence of God.

Angel can blind a man when they appear, they are so bright.

Angels are messengers from God. Many verses speak of the Angel of the Lord (pre-incarnate Christ)
speaking to men.
Click to expand...
I agree angels who do God’s will are called holy no question about that but it is the act of doing that that makes them a holy angel. as like Adam was required to obey thus was holy in that sense there was a requirement to be held as such but he was down grated to tilling the ground for food.

I think God chooses who is and who isn’t chosen/elect
 
I

ieuan

Guest
#34
#34
Deutronomy said:
"Hi JamOn, I believe that there are two main classes of angels, fallen/demons and chosen/elect .. 1 Timothy 5:21. If ~all~ angels are fallen/not holy, that means that they are sinners (IOW, neither innocent nor righteous), so how can they stand in the presence of God to serve Him if that is true .. e.g. Matthew 18:10; Luke 1:19 :unsure:"

Deut, you make some very good points and your doctrine seems fine.
Even fallen angels serve the Lord, they dare not refuse such is God's power.
They also appear before the Lord, if you remember Satan the leader of the fallen angels
stood before the Lord in the book of Job, he also stands to accuse Joshua the high priest.
If you remember a demon said to the Lord when David fled from Absolem,
"Let me be a lying spirit," and the Lord repleid, "Be a lying spirit."
And this was to protect David, the Lord's anointed.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#35
Jul 31, 2013
37,788
13,546
113
#35
Deuteronomy said:
Hi JamOn, I believe that there are two main classes of angels, fallen/demons and chosen/elect .. 1 Timothy 5:21. If ~all~ angels are fallen/not holy, that means that they are sinners (IOW, neither innocent nor righteous), so how can they stand in the presence of God to serve Him if that is true .. e.g. Matthew 18:10; Luke 1:19:unsure:

Thanks!

~Deut
Click to expand...
Matthew 25:31, Mark 8:38, Luke 9:26 and Revelation 14:10 all make mention of 'the holy angels' with the Lamb.
so it cannot be that there is no such thing as 'holy angels' - there they are mentioned; they exist.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#36
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#36
Hard thing to grasp maybe, the fact satan and the falling angels where once holy and dwelled with God in heaven.
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#37
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#37
posthuman said:
Matthew 25:31, Mark 8:38, Luke 9:26 and Revelation 14:10 all make mention of 'the holy angels' with the Lamb.
so it cannot be that there is no such thing as 'holy angels' - there they are mentioned; they exist.
Click to expand...
Of coarse there are angels who do God’s will
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#38
Jul 3, 2015
59,935
29,302
113
#38
posthuman said:
Matthew 25:31, Mark 8:38, Luke 9:26 and Revelation 14:10 all make mention of 'the holy angels' with the Lamb.
so it cannot be that there is no such thing as 'holy angels' - there they are mentioned; they exist.
Click to expand...
As well as Acts 10:22 :) I mentioned them all already :D
 
JamOn

JamOn

Banned
#39
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#39
As Magenta pointed out there are only five verses with holy angel together it’s a bit of a deep mystery as to why the other mentioning of a angel don’t have holy as well like this one below and many others also surely where holy I think. Why just five verses

Luke 1:18
And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#40
Jul 3, 2015
59,935
29,302
113
#40
ieuan said:
Angels are holy, but they are not God, good distinction you made, nevertheless they are referred to as holy
and are holy as they do God's will. Holiness is relative to the ultimate holiness of God.

No man has seen God at any time, but angels are in the presence of God.

Angel can blind a man when they appear, they are so bright.

Angels are messengers from God. Many verses speak of the Angel of the Lord (pre-incarnate Christ)
speaking to men.
Click to expand...
Jesus said those who see Him have seen the Father... and there are those who have seen Him :)

Also, in relation to us as human beings, holy also simply means "set apart."

Gotquestions puts it this way: At its most basic meaning, holy simply means “set apart” or even “different.”
God is holy because He is absolutely different, completely set apart from everything else.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.