Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.

TheLearner · Jan 9, 2022

Many things we do go beyond what is written like how we have indoor plumbing.

Back in Jesus' day all bathrooms were community like in the military, no walls --- holes in rocks over running stream. There was also three buckets. One with vinegar water for cleaning the stick with a sponge on it. One soapy water and the other fresh water. So, if you want to be Biblical about it, build a public out door, no walls toilet with the three buckets. This also, makes a great joke when you have guests over who says everything must be done the way Jesus did it. There are historical sources for this if you want to take the time to google.

TheLearner · Jan 9, 2022

1 Corinthians 4
Easy-to-Read Version
Apostles of Christ Jesus
4 You should think of us as servants of Christ, the ones God has trusted to do the work of making known his secret truths. 2 Those who are trusted with such an important work must show that they are worthy of that trust. 3 But I don’t consider your judgment on this point to be worth anything. Even an opinion from a court of law would mean nothing. I don’t even trust my own judgment. 4 I don’t know of any wrong I have done, but that does not make me right. The Lord is the one who must decide if I have done well or not. 5 So don’t judge anyone now. The time for judging will be when the Lord comes. He will shine light on everything that is now hidden in darkness. He will make known the secret purposes of our hearts. Then the praise each person should get will come from God.

6 Brothers and sisters, I have used Apollos and myself as examples for you. I did this so that you could learn from us the meaning of the words, “Follow what the Scriptures say.” Then you will not brag about one person and criticize another. 7 Who do you think you are? Everything you have was given to you. So, if everything you have was given to you, why do you act as if you got it all by your own power?

8 You think you have everything you need. You think you are rich. You think you have become kings without us. I wish you really were kings. Then we could rule together with you. 9 But it seems to me that God has given me and the other apostles the last place. We are like prisoners condemned to die, led in a parade for the whole world to see—not just people but angels too. 10 We are fools for Christ, but you think you are so wise in Christ. We are weak, but you think you are so strong. People give you honor, but they don’t honor us. 11 Even now we still don’t have enough to eat or drink, and we don’t have enough clothes. We often get beatings. We have no homes. 12 We work hard with our own hands to feed ourselves. When people insult us, we ask God to bless them. When people treat us badly, we accept it. 13 When people say bad things about us, we try to say something that will help them. But people still treat us like the world’s garbage—everyone’s trash.

Dino246 · Jan 9, 2022

justbyfaith said:

There's the problem: it's your doctrine, not biblical doctrine.

Faithiskey1 · Jan 9, 2022

TheLearner said:

Many things we do go beyond what is written like how we have indoor plumbing.

Back in Jesus' day all bathrooms were community like in the military, no walls --- holes in rocks over running stream. There was also three buckets. One with vinegar water for cleaning the stick with a sponge on it. One soapy water and the other fresh water. So, if you want to be Biblical about it, build a public out door, no walls toilet with the three buckets. This also, makes a great joke when you have guests over who says everything must be done the way Jesus did it. There are historical sources for this if you want to take the time to google.

Im sure I would make you weep, I never read of historical sources, solely the bible

justbyfaith · Jan 9, 2022

Dino246 said:

I think that you also might have said that to Jesus when He said that the doctrine that He preached was His doctrine (John 7:16-17). But even as Jesus said, so say I, my doctrine is not mine; but his that sent me.

Dino246 · Jan 9, 2022

justbyfaith said:

Implying a comparison between yourself and Jesus is arrogant. Implying an insult is cowardly. If it bothers you when people tell you that the doctrine you promote is not biblically sound, maybe you should consider why.

Faithiskey1 · Jan 10, 2022

justbyfaith said:

The Lord says to my lord:[a]

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet

Psalms110:1

But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Luke1:43

Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God! John 20:28

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. John 17:3

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they(the believers) may be one AS we are one— John17:22

I and the Father are one John 10:30

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 1Cor 8:6

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 1Cor15:24-28

Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy. Heb1:8&9

The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name. Rev3:12

Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John20:17

But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God. 1Cor12:3

The Father is greater than I John14:28

The Father is greater than all John 17:3

And finally:

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John 20:20-23

In that section from John 17 who links it all together? I think you know going by reading a couple of your posts here

Well, have fun

justbyfaith · Jan 10, 2022

I would simply point out that there is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

Yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)).

And, Jesus is the one Lord of holy scripture (1 Corinthians 8:6).

So, all of your arguments aside, I conclude that Jesus and the Father are the same Lord.

The Father is an eternal Spirit (John 4:23-24) inhabiting eternity (Isaiah 57:15) without flesh.

The Son is the same Spirit come in human flesh (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7, 1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv))

The Son is distinct from the Father in that He is come in the flesh; while the Father is a Spirit without flesh.

I think that if you sift all of your arguments through the lens of the above information, you will see that it all comes together without any contradiction.

justbyfaith · Jan 10, 2022

Dino246 said:

You are certainly the judge of me and will be sitting on that throne to judge me on the final day, aren't you?

Faithiskey1 · Jan 10, 2022

justbyfaith said:

Well I did expect you to at least make an effort to respond to the scriptures placed before you. Most people try and do exegesis to turn them on their head at least once, before they only want to debate their own pet scriptures. Could you not at least have answered the question at the end? You did say ask if I wanted to know anything. I will repost it.

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John 20:20-23

In that section from John 17 who links it all together? I think you know going by reading a couple of your posts here

Faithiskey1 · Jan 10, 2022

justbyfaith said:

You clearly cannot answer the question or you would have done already, so I will answer it for you:

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John 20:20-23

How can believers be in Father and Son? Only through the Holy Spirit. And Jesus said that just as he and the Father are in each other may the believers be in them. How can believers be as one? Only through the Holy Spirit, of one heart and one mind united in truth by the Spirit:

then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Phil2:2

That they may be one AS we are one. Thought you would have know that. It is the Holy Spirit that is the key that links it all together

Faithiskey1 · Jan 10, 2022

As I will shortly be leaving this website, I will comment on the madness of internet theologians. I have attended various trinitarian churches for over four decades, and never once heard any minister insist you must term Christ the one true God to be saved. In fact, I only once in all that time heard the expression: Christ is God.
Now from what justbyfaith has previously written he believes Father and Son are one through the Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit. I absolutely agree with him. The Spirit fully manifests in the Son. So justbyfaith and I agree as to the essence of Christ. However, we do disagree as to the title of Christ. Now scripture is clear as to what title you must beleive Christ to have to receive eternal life, the Son of God. However, for most internet theologians who love to discuss this subject, that is not enough. So, though you may agree with them that God, through the Holy Spirit fully dwells in Christ you are condemned to hell because you will only term Christ according to the belief required according to scripture to inherit eternal life. Which means, these internet theologians, in effect state, ''You are condemned for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth. John17:3&John14:28
Its madness of course but there you go

Dino246 · Jan 10, 2022

Faithiskey1 said:

As I will shortly be leaving this website, I will comment on the madness of internet theologians. I have attended various trinitarian churches for over four decades, and never once heard any minister insist you must term Christ the one true God to be saved. In fact, I only once in all that time heard the expression: Christ is God.
Now from what justbyfaith has previously written he believes Father and Son are one through the Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit. I absolutely agree with him. The Spirit fully manifests in the Son. So justbyfaith and I agree as to the essence of Christ. However, we do disagree as to the title of Christ. Now scripture is clear as to what title you must beleive Christ to have to receive eternal life, the Son of God. However, for most internet theologians who love to discuss this subject, that is not enough. So, though you may agree with them that God, through the Holy Spirit fully dwells in Christ you are condemned to hell because you will only term Christ according to the belief required according to scripture to inherit eternal life. Which means, these internet theologians, in effect state, ''You are condemned for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth. John17:3&John14:28
Its madness of course but there you go

You are certainly free to leave if you choose. Let me encourage you to stay. There is a need for people who challenge the self-made theologians, either to help them or, in this case, to resist their errors.

TheLearner · Jan 10, 2022

Faithiskey1 said:

TheLearner · Jan 10, 2022

Faithiskey1 said:

Jesus wept

TheLearner · Jan 10, 2022

Faithiskey1 said:

As I will shortly be leaving this website, I will comment on the madness of internet theologians. I have attended various trinitarian churches for over four decades, and never once heard any minister insist you must term Christ the one true God to be saved. In fact, I only once in all that time heard the expression: Christ is God.
Now from what justbyfaith has previously written he believes Father and Son are one through the Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit. I absolutely agree with him. The Spirit fully manifests in the Son. So justbyfaith and I agree as to the essence of Christ. However, we do disagree as to the title of Christ. Now scripture is clear as to what title you must beleive Christ to have to receive eternal life, the Son of God. However, for most internet theologians who love to discuss this subject, that is not enough. So, though you may agree with them that God, through the Holy Spirit fully dwells in Christ you are condemned to hell because you will only term Christ according to the belief required according to scripture to inherit eternal life. Which means, these internet theologians, in effect state, ''You are condemned for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth. John17:3&John14:28
Its madness of course but there you go

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin [is] death; but the act of favour of God, eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Oblio · Jan 10, 2022

Father, Holy Spirit, Son.
By faith I know the three are one!

justbyfaith · Jan 10, 2022

Faithiskey1 said:

Well I did expect you to at least make an effort to respond to the scriptures placed before you. Most people try and do exegesis to turn them on their head at least once, before they only want to debate their own pet scriptures. Could you not at least have answered the question at the end? You did say ask if I wanted to know anything. I will repost it.

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John 20:20-23

In that section from John 17 who links it all together? I think you know going by reading a couple of your posts here

The same one Spirit that dwells within me dwells within you; and is one Spirit with your spirit (1 Corinthians 6:17).

So, we are one in that Spirit.

justbyfaith · Jan 10, 2022

Faithiskey1 said:

You clearly cannot answer the question or you would have done already, so I will answer it for you:

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John 20:20-23

How can believers be in Father and Son? Only through the Holy Spirit. And Jesus said that just as he and the Father are in each other may the believers be in them. How can believers be as one? Only through the Holy Spirit, of one heart and one mind united in truth by the Spirit:

then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Phil2:2

That they may be one AS we are one. Thought you would have know that. It is the Holy Spirit that is the key that links it all together

Sorry, I was away from the computer for a little while. I have answered this question above.

justbyfaith · Jan 10, 2022

Faithiskey1 said:

As I will shortly be leaving this website, I will comment on the madness of internet theologians. I have attended various trinitarian churches for over four decades, and never once heard any minister insist you must term Christ the one true God to be saved. In fact, I only once in all that time heard the expression: Christ is God.
Now from what justbyfaith has previously written he believes Father and Son are one through the Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit. I absolutely agree with him. The Spirit fully manifests in the Son. So justbyfaith and I agree as to the essence of Christ. However, we do disagree as to the title of Christ. Now scripture is clear as to what title you must beleive Christ to have to receive eternal life, the Son of God. However, for most internet theologians who love to discuss this subject, that is not enough. So, though you may agree with them that God, through the Holy Spirit fully dwells in Christ you are condemned to hell because you will only term Christ according to the belief required according to scripture to inherit eternal life. Which means, these internet theologians, in effect state, ''You are condemned for standing on the plain words of Christ when he walked this earth. John17:3&John14:28
Its madness of course but there you go

It depends on what you believe is the definition of the fact that He is the Son of God. Clearly in Isaiah 9:6 it is written that the son that was given shall be given the name of "The everlasting Father".

Also, "The mighty God" (compare Psalms 50:1 (kjv)).

Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.

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