Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.
- Thread starter justbyfaith
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
referring to The Holy Spirit as energy is unbiblical and error.
You do not find anywhere in the Word of God the Person of the Holy Spirit called and energy.
That is Profaning the Holy Spirit.
Meaning: you are addressing the Holy Spirit as common which is carnality.
It is very much disrespectful to say such things.
You have been told this. As a God-called minister of the gospel, I urge you to reconsider not to use this term when Speaking of the Spirit of the Living God.
No amount of biblical jujitsu will excuse such arrogance and profane speaking of the Holy Spirit, Be very careful, you have been told, and for those here who agree an amen will do to testify as a witness to what I say to you now.
I too have said things and was corrected and thank the brother and sister who have. I say this to you only to exhort you and admonish in love.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Again... there is no scripture in this post... Just your beliefs based off of what you have been taught. If you go through the thread, you will see that I have left plenty of scriptures supporting my claims... as well as scriptures proving that the language used to "prove" a trinity is also used in many other places in the bible that are not speaking about God at all.
You being a "minister of the gospel" holds no weight to me. I only care about the Truth. A man's title is insignificant. What matters is whether or not what is said lines up with scripture.
I'm not sure if you are intentionally misrepresenting my position, or just don't understand it.... but there is nothing I said that is "profaning the holy spirit". I am simply giving THE MOST HIGH GOD the glory for supplying His set-apart energy for us.
Why do I call "holy spirit".... "set-apart energy"??
Holy - This word means set-apart/designated for a special purpose. This is why we have regular days and "holy" days. These holy days were set-apart from the others by The Most High for a special purpose.
Spirit - This word means wind/breath/life. Those things combined makeup what in English we would refer to as energy. If we lived in China, we would call this qi. Definition: Qi is believed to be a vital force forming part of any living entity. Literally meaning "vapor", "air", or "breath", the word qi is often translated as "vital energy", "vital force", "material energy", or simply as "energy".
I have stated many times on this thread and shown in scripture that The Most High God is ALL and is in ALL. I don't think any one disagrees with that statement. However, it seems to be forgotten when someone pulls out a verse saying that He is something that supports the trinity doctrine...
So if you find a verse that says The Most High is "love"... Of course He is. He is ALL things.
If a verse says He is "peace"... Of course He is. He is ALL things.
If a verse says He is "spirit", again.... He is ALL things!
Genesis 6:3
And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
1 Thessalonians 4:8
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
In both of these verses we see the spirit ultimately is from The Father by the words "my and his". These are not "persons" of His that He gave... This is energy/lifeforce/qi that He is supplying to mankind. What makes the spirit holy (set-apart/sacred/special) in Thessalonians, is that this energy is reserved for the righteous or anyone that The Most High uses in His plans.
ALL things ultimately come from The Most High.... From The Father, through the Son. "Holy spirit" does not originate from the Messiah. He is the gatekeeper of it. Again, energy can manifest in may ways (talents, emotions, etc.)... but this does not make it a separate person from the host or supplier of that energy.
"Spirit" is the God within us. It's what connects us all together and to The Most High. The Messiah is "one" with The Father, but the goal is for us all to be:
John 17:11
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:20-21
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Correct, there was no Scripture reference in my post because nowhere in the word of God is the Holy Spirit referred to or called
an " Energy ".
You have not provided any Biibical proof of anyone referring to the Holy Spirit as an " energy ".
The very scripture you referenced does not do that.
" The Most High God" = is not energy
the word "spirit" must be kept in context to where it is used "s" and distinction from "S" = Holy Spirit in all areas of both Old and New Testament
Not one translation from Hebrew or Greek calls the Spirit of God "energy". That is Profane.
The Unseen God who is everywhere and YET can BE near by HIS Spirit. Energy doesn't Speak. Energy is not given personality.
Here is just some scripture to who the Holy Spirit is and what HE does in the Word of God or has done.
. Breath Of The Almighty
Job 33:4
The name was given not for the cause but the effect of the Holy Spirit.
.Counselor & Comforter
John 14:16,26; 15:26 and Romans 8:26
What the Holy Spirit does for us is never referred to as an energy.
. Spirit of Counsel
Isaiah 11:2
" Spirit does not translate to energy
. Eternal Spirit
Hebrews 9:14
. God
Acts 5:3-4
Good Spirit
Nehemiah 9:20; Psalm 143:10
Holy Spirit
Psalm 51:11, Luke 11:13, Ephesians 1:13, 4:30
Spirit of Christ (Jesus Christ)
Romans 8:9, 1 Peter 1:11
Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2, 1 Corinthians 2:11, Job 33:4
Spirit of Yahweh, (Spirit of the Lord Yahweh)
Isaiah 11:2, Isaiah 61:1
Spirit of Grace
Zechariah 12:10, Hebrews 10:29
Spirit of Knowledge
Isaiah 11:2
Spirit of Truth
John 14:17, 15:26
Spirit of Life
Romans 8:2
Spirit of the Living God
2 Corinthians 3:3
Spirit of the Father
Matthew 10:20
Spirit of the Lord (God)
Acts 5:9
None of this is speaking of energy, BUT of GOD who is a Being. All are speaking mainly of the Attributes of GOD.
You come here and deny Jesus is God and now you attack the Holy Spirit as not being God, what is your issue?
You have not proven the Holy Spirit is energy nor Have YOU PROVEN HE IS NOT GOD.
Jesus called Him the Comforter John 14:26
Jesus said in John 3:5-8 to Nicodemus :
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Jesus is saying You cannot see the Holy Spirit but you can see HIS working and effects.
When Jesus is speaking HE is the final Authority, Period.
All you have said is I have not used scripture well, here you go. What I have said is true. You cannot be Christian and deny the deity of Christ and profane the Holy Spirit.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Of course no body refers to the word spirit as energy because it would replace the word spirit. If you say in the bible "spirit is energy", that would be like saying "spirit is spirit". Word's have definitions. Use a lexicon... or a concordance... look up the word that "spirit" was translated from: "ruach"..... What does it mean? Then look up the words qi and energy... what do the definitions say?
spirit... energy... ruach... qi... same thing.
No the word "energy" is not in the bible... but guess what other word is not there? "Trinity"
Did God not say He is ALL things? Are you calling God a liar? Why are you profaning God's name?
I was not not being serious with those questions, but hopefully you get the point. Throwing those type of accusations out there because someone has a different understanding of scriptures than you and your circle is immature and helps nothing.
I've already addressed the illogical argument regarding capital letters. The words read the exact same way in the languages the bible was translated from, as well as many other languages the bible was translated into. If its the exact same word in the writings that the Messiah used.... then it is the exact same word.
Like you just said, this is HIS spirit.... The Most High is the one speaking through his energy by means of whatever vessel He chooses.
I don't understand what the point was about posting the scriptures with different titles. None of them prove how spirit is not energy that can be manifested in different ways.
That is a straw man. I never claimed Jesus was not "God"... I only claimed that he is not the same entity as his Father - The Most High God. If you don't understand the difference, that's on you.... but I explained it in detail in my previous posts. I did not "attack" the holy spirit either... whether you agree or not, I simply stated that the holy spirit is The Most High God's set-apart energy in which the "persons" of the Most High is revealed through. I'm only giving the glory back to The Most High where it belongs.
These verses do not even hint at the word "spirit" being a person. You are definitely reading that into the text. Again, this is the Most High's spirit... He is the personality behind it:
1 Kings 21:5
5 But Jezebel his wife came to him, and said unto him, Why is thy spirit so sad, that thou eatest no bread?
Is the spirit here a separate personality??
Many Christian denominations believe very different things.... I'm not concerned with your metrics, but thanks for your opinion.
spirit... energy... ruach... qi... same thing.
No the word "energy" is not in the bible... but guess what other word is not there? "Trinity"
Did God not say He is ALL things? Are you calling God a liar? Why are you profaning God's name?
I was not not being serious with those questions, but hopefully you get the point. Throwing those type of accusations out there because someone has a different understanding of scriptures than you and your circle is immature and helps nothing.
I've already addressed the illogical argument regarding capital letters. The words read the exact same way in the languages the bible was translated from, as well as many other languages the bible was translated into. If its the exact same word in the writings that the Messiah used.... then it is the exact same word.
Like you just said, this is HIS spirit.... The Most High is the one speaking through his energy by means of whatever vessel He chooses.
I don't understand what the point was about posting the scriptures with different titles. None of them prove how spirit is not energy that can be manifested in different ways.
That is a straw man. I never claimed Jesus was not "God"... I only claimed that he is not the same entity as his Father - The Most High God. If you don't understand the difference, that's on you.... but I explained it in detail in my previous posts. I did not "attack" the holy spirit either... whether you agree or not, I simply stated that the holy spirit is The Most High God's set-apart energy in which the "persons" of the Most High is revealed through. I'm only giving the glory back to The Most High where it belongs.
These verses do not even hint at the word "spirit" being a person. You are definitely reading that into the text. Again, this is the Most High's spirit... He is the personality behind it:
1 Kings 21:5
5 But Jezebel his wife came to him, and said unto him, Why is thy spirit so sad, that thou eatest no bread?
Is the spirit here a separate personality??
Many Christian denominations believe very different things.... I'm not concerned with your metrics, but thanks for your opinion.
-
1
- Show all
You have been warned. You deny Jesus is God and speak profanely about the Holy Spirit on a Christian site. To disagree with the Trinity is one thing but to deny Jesus as God and speak in such a way about the Holy Spirit from the word of God taking out of context one word to make the Holy Spirit who is God a force or energy is frankly a JW and evolutionist perspective.
You are not Oness, you are not Trinitarian, you do not hold to Christian Doctrine concerning the Deity of Christ. You speak common about the Lord God and have no reverence. You have to be from some kind of theological cult. I will place you ignore. Good day.
You are not Oness, you are not Trinitarian, you do not hold to Christian Doctrine concerning the Deity of Christ. You speak common about the Lord God and have no reverence. You have to be from some kind of theological cult. I will place you ignore. Good day.
-
1
- Show all