Understanding God’s election

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Oct 19, 2024
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If I understand love!? As if you do? You have a really great handle on love, do you, especially God's love? You FWers remind me of the world and how the ungodly will very often appeal to God's love to support and advance their political agendas. But since you have appealed to love -- even inferring that love surpasses and is superior to the godly disposition of Fear of the Lord -- then let's look briefly at love to see if you know of what you speak. I say you absolutely do NOT! And that by appealing to love, you have unwittingly placed yourself between a rock (Fear of the Lord) and a hard place (love).

But first a very quick review of the critical importance of the Fear of the Lord. As we have seen previously, the Fear of the Lord leads to life, and this Fear is actually a fountain of life to all who possess it. And this should come as no surprise because those who Fear God will keep his commandments, shun evil and this Fear of God is the key that unlocks the great treasure of God's salvation, wisdom and knowledge. And this Fear of the Lord is a unilateral New Covenant promise which proves its critical role in the salvation of all lost souls.

What YOU do not understand about love is that no sinner loves God! Sinners have rebellious, prideful and arrogant hearts, which is why the Psalmist wrote what he did about the nations of this world (Ps 2:1-3), asking why to the nations rage, and the peoples plot in vain, not wanting the King to rule over them. Doesn't sound from this Psalm that the world has a love affair with God or his Christ. It's for this reason that Moses predicted what God would do for his covenant people to correct this fatal moral deficiency -- fatal because anyone who doesn't love God is under a curse (1Cor 16:22). Therefore, God, through Moses, unilaterally promised his covenant people the day would come when he would provide an eternal, spiritual remedy for this damning spiritual condition:

Deut 30:1-6
30:1 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come upon you and you take them to heart wherever the LORD your God disperses you among the nations, 2 and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, 3 then the LORD your God will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you. 4 Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back. 5 He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers.
6 The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
NIV

This circumcision of the heart, not made with human hands, is every bit as critically important as the sovereign and gracious gift of the Fear of the Lord since only those who truly love God will inherit the kingdom of God (Jas 2:5).

And only those who love God are known by Him (1Cor 8:3). And this explains the major reason behind why Christ will tell many self-deceived professing believers on the the last day that He never knew them (Mat 7:23).

And this lack of love for God also explains Jesus' words in Mat 25:41 when on Judgment Day, he will tell all those on his left to "Depart from me you who are cursed into the eternal fire..." (again cf. 1Cor 16:22).

Moreover, all "agape" love comes from God himself (1Jn 4:7).

Paul totally understood the above truth, which is how he could write that grace, faith and love were all poured out on him abundantly by God (1Tim 1:14; Rom 5:5). This is the only way sinners can truly love God! They receive the gifts of grace, faith and love which empowers them to freely reciprocate God's love back to him!

So, why do you despise these indispensable gifts God has graciously given to his chosen ones? Why do you blaspheme God by heaping upon all manner of insults upon Him, e.g. monster, tyrant, bully, etc. (When you and other FWers do such things you sound like the pagans described in Ps 2 who rage against God, and whom God mocks and holds in derision.) Why is your heart so hardened that you cannot see the helpless and hopeless spiritual condition of mankind? Why can't you rejoice in God's amazing grace, mercy, compassion and incomprehensible love for his chosen people? Why is that you persist on untethering yourself from God efficacious, saving grace, and instead insist on your all-powerful, self-sufficient "freewill" as THE KEY to unlocking God's treasure of salvation, wisdom and knowledge? Why can't you be ever thankful that God, through the Holy Spirit, has circumcised all his people's hearts (Rom 2:28-29)? Why can't you rejoice that God's elect will offer themselves freely (willingly) on the day of his power (Ps 110:3)?
I also never rebelled against my heavenly Father or ever accused Him of being unloving.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Well, I have never feared God, but I love Him.
The hymn that played a part in my "walking the aisle" at age nine was "Love Lifted Me".
Then it's pretty likely you have a very serious spiritual problem, for the Messiah certainly did!

Isa 11:1-3
1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him —
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,

the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD —
3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.

NIV

It's no wonder at all that you believe a true believer can lose his salvation.

Neither am I surprised that you, evidently, believe you're better than Christ and can't be bothered with fearing the Lord. And given the fact that the Fear of the Lord is a major biblical theme, I'm not surprised either that the Son of God also feared the Lord. Unlike you, Jesus took the Word of God seriously and refused to play games with it.

And I suppose the next thing you will tell us that you have loved the Lord without him ever circumcising your heart?

And here are the two most serious implications to you categorically rejecting God's truth:

Isa 5:20-21
20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.


21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight.

NIV

When anyone denies the efficacious nature of God's grace, most especially by offering lame excuses that are the products of their finite, carnal minds from which spring blasphemous thoughts about God, they are essentially calling his precious, saving, powerful grace EVIL and their own depraved, corrupt volition GOOD! I certainly would not want to be you on the last day!

Secondly, only those who actually believe God will be justified!

Rom 4:3
3 What does the Scripture say?
"Abraham believed God , and it was credited to him as righteousness."
NIV

And you might think this is a trivial passage, as well, that you're free to dismiss or ignore, but this truth is expressed in two other places as well (Gal 3:6; Jas 2:23). When a truth is repeated three times in scripture, I think God might be trying to tell readers something of upmost importance.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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I also never rebelled against my heavenly Father or ever accused Him of being unloving.
That's a lie! You rebelled immediately against God after I quoted a large number of passages that teach God hates, abhors, detests sins and sinners alike. You summarily dismissed all those passages with this "brilliant" excuse (to paraphrase): "Well, the OT hasn't caught up to the New yet." :rolleyes:
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Then it's pretty likely you have a very serious spiritual problem, for the Messiah certainly did!

Isa 11:1-3
1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him —
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,

the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD —
3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD.

NIV

It's no wonder at all that you believe a true believer can lose his salvation.

Neither am I surprised that you, evidently, believe you're better than Christ and can't be bothered with fearing the Lord. And given the fact that the Fear of the Lord is a major biblical theme, I'm not surprised either that the Son of God also feared the Lord. Unlike you, Jesus took the Word of God seriously and refused to play games with it.

And I suppose the next thing you will tell us that you have loved the Lord without him ever circumcising your heart?

And here are the two most serious implications to you categorically rejecting God's truth:

Isa 5:20-21
20 Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.


21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
and clever in their own sight.

NIV

When anyone denies the efficacious nature of God's grace, most especially by offering lame excuses that are the products of their finite, carnal minds from which spring blasphemous thoughts about God, they are essentially calling his precious, saving, powerful grace EVIL and their own depraved, corrupt volition GOOD! I certainly would not want to be you on the last day!

Secondly, only those who actually believe God will be justified!

Rom 4:3
3 What does the Scripture say?
"Abraham believed God , and it was credited to him as righteousness."
NIV

And you might think this is a trivial passage, as well, that you're free to dismiss or ignore, but this truth is expressed in two other places as well (Gal 3:6; Jas 2:23). When a truth is repeated three times in scripture, I think God might be trying to tell readers something of upmost importance.
Jesus said to love the Lord your God, not fear Him. (Matt.22:37)
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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Jesus said to love the Lord your God, not fear Him. (Matt.22:37)
Jesus also said through the Holy Spirit:

Acts 10:35
35 but in every nation
anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
ESV

So...since you boast about how superior love is to the grace of the Fear of the Lord, I can only surmise the God has not accepted you. Your own words condemn you!

And since you despise the Fear of the Lord and refuse to follow the Master's delight in the Fear of God, then this indicates you don't love him either; for He also taught that if you love him you will keep his commandments (Jn 14:15), and one of those often repeated commands is to follow/emulate him (Mat 4:19; 8:22; 9:9; 10:38; 16:24; 19:21; Jn 10:27; 12:26; 2122, etc.). Yet, you're too stubborn, proud and arrogant to humble yourself to have worshipful reverence and awe of God (2Cor 7:1; Eph 5:21). Don't you know that God resists the proud but gives his precious grace to the humble (Jas 4:6; 1Pet 5:5)? In fact, you're so full of yourself, so proud, so defiant you can't even bring yourself to confess that the only reason anyone can truly love God is because God first loved them (1Jn 4:19) which moved him to circumcise their hearts (Deut 30:6) and to shed his own love abroad in their hearts (Rom 5:5). Instead, you bow down low at the altar to your idol Human Volition, believing in your heart that this is the Key to your god's salvation, wisdom and knowledge.

You are one huge spiritual mess but you're so self-deceived you cannot see it!
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Jesus also said through the Holy Spirit:

Acts 10:35
35 but in every nation
anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.
ESV

So...since you boast about how superior love is to the grace of the Fear of the Lord, I can only surmise the God has not accepted you. Your own words condemn you!

And since you despise the Fear of the Lord and refuse to follow the Master's delight in the Fear of God, then this indicates you don't love him either; for He also taught that if you love him you will keep his commandments (Jn 14:15), and one of those often repeated commands is to follow/emulate him (Mat 4:19; 8:22; 9:9; 10:38; 16:24; 19:21; Jn 10:27; 12:26; 2122, etc.). Yet, you're too stubborn, proud and arrogant to humble yourself to have worshipful reverence and awe of God (2Cor 7:1; Eph 5:21). Don't you know that God resists the proud but gives his precious grace to the humble (Jas 4:6; 1Pet 5:5)? In fact, you're so full of yourself, so proud, so defiant you can't even bring yourself to confess that the only reason anyone can truly love God is because God first loved them (1Jn 4:19) which moved him to circumcise their hearts (Deut 30:6) and to shed his own love abroad in their hearts (Rom 5:5). Instead, you bow down low at the altar to your idol Human Volition, believing in your heart that this is the Key to your god's salvation, wisdom and knowledge.

You are one huge spiritual mess but you're so self-deceived you cannot see it!
Ditto. Love casts out fear.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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Ditto. Love casts out fear.
Not the Fear of the Lord it doesn't, since it is a God-given gift promised in the New Covenant! The Son of God is love, yet he feared the Lord and not only feared him but rejoiced in it! The Fear of the Lord is what kept Him Faithful and True and on the straight and narrow path of righteousness. But hey...why would you want to emulate him? Your love is for your god Human Volition.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Not the Fear of the Lord it doesn't, since it is a God-given gift promised in the New Covenant! The Son of God is love, yet he feared the Lord and not only feared him but rejoiced in it! The Fear of the Lord is what kept Him Faithful and True and on the straight and narrow path of righteousness. But hey...why would you want to emulate him? Your love is for your god Human Volition.
Well I understand how hell is just and loving, but my earthly parents were so loving that I always have believed that God is too and I bet you I am right.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Well I understand how hell is just and loving, but my earthly parents were so loving that I always have believed that God is too and I bet you I am right.
But what a shame you don't understand that your confession of rejection of this NC gift of grace means God has not accepted you (Act 10:35). How can He when you believe that the Fear of the Lord is evil even though the Messiah thought it to be good.