Understanding God’s election

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Yep you repliest against God, set in Judgment of God, who do you think you are ?

I read this and I want all who believe God created an elect people and a damned people. It gives a vivid picture of what Calvinsm/Reformed really teaches.

Imagine all the redeemed, unconditionally elected according to Calvinism, are standing on the precipice of hell in which untold billions of people suffer unimaginable, unquenchable, and unparalleled agony and torment. While the elect gaze into the cauldron of hell, one of the unconditionally elect exclaims God is holy. And that proclamation is immediately and worshipfully met by thunderous amens and hallelujahs since, whether redeemed or judged, God’s perfect and unlimited righteousness and holiness are irrefutably evident to all.

Then another of the unconditionally elect, caught up in the moment, resoundingly declares that God is love. An eerie pause follows this declaration. A hollow cavern of silence. A silence not from or awakening calmness, but a silence invoked by an insurmountable contradiction. A silence wherein an attribute of God is suppressed by the conquest of evidence; a silence like never before. It is not one of awe and glorious wonder but one of confusion and demoralization of the elect.

While God clearly dealt with the elect and the damned in holiness, and the elect in love, it is impossible to truthfully say God dealt with the damned, the reprobate, in perfect love, salvific love. Seeking to explain how God is perfect love and yet withholds his salvific love from those he created and predetermined for eternal torment is like trying to explain God as perfect holiness if he did not deal with all people and sin in perfect holiness.
...He may display or withhold exercising his omnipotence based on his moral attributes, but his moral nature of perfect holiness, righteousness, and love is always perfectly present.


Calvin makes God some He is not, He makes false judgments against the character of God. I don't understand how one could claim to know God, yet know nothing of His character at all.

 

[Magenta]

Well Jesus before He was Jesus is the LORD in the Old Testament.

How could there have been a time when Jesus was not Jesus? Jesus pre-existed His
physical incarnation as a human. Calling Him the Word or having Him manifest prior
to Him being born as a human does not change the fact of Who it is or that He was.

Nehemiah 9:6 plus John 1:3

 

[Genez]

Oh, someone lost if Calvin is correct. The poor souls that have been cast into through no fault of their own.

TULIP has God equating human souls with rocks.

Calvinists get angry at themselves when logic is demanded.
And, then externalize and project that anger onto anyone who dare question them, using God as their proxy, not to be questioned.
"How dare you question God!"
Yet, it is themselves, not God, who is being questioned.

Satan is a genius, master of the very nature he caused to come into existence.
He has an angle for every sin nature man can come up with.

.......

 

[lrs68]

How could there have been a time when Jesus was not Jesus? Jesus pre-existed His
physical incarnation as a human. Calling Him the Word or having Him manifest prior
to Him being born as a human does not change the fact of Who it is or that He was.

Nehemiah 9:6 plus John 1:3

You are the first person I have ever met who didn't know that the God in the Old Testament was the preincarnate Jesus.

It's an honor to meet you because I didn't know people inside the Church wasn't taught this.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

God has always had a people that He chose to be his. This applies to both old/new testaments! According to your statement “not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” is sadly miss-interpreted to mean all mankind, where it should be viewed as those set aside. See scripture below:

Duet 6
6 “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

Duet 7:9-11
9 Know therefore that the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations, 10 and repays to their face those who hate him, by destroying them. He will not be slack with one who hates him. He will repay him to his face. 11 You shall therefore be careful to do the commandment and the statutes and the rules that I command you today.

As you can see, He has declared that He has a holy people (set aside) to be his treasured possession. Your "any and all" applies only to them, not the world.
God takes no pleasure in the destruction of any, He is merciful but He is also just!

You're talking about the actual chosen people, the Jews, and even they aren't chosen unto salvation. YOU are grafted in. You are not more elect than God chosen people and you certainly aren't chosen for salvation.

 

[Rufus]

I already have, remember the verses you and Cranberry couldn't find error in? The ones you ignored?!! Look backward and you will find them.

No, I don't. Did your post include Righteousness as part of God's character?

 

[Rufus]

You're talking about the actual chosen people, the Jews, and even they aren't chosen unto salvation. YOU are grafted in. You are not more elect than God chosen people and you certainly aren't chosen for salvation.

As in NONE of them? Get up to speed on Rom 9 some day.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

No, I don't. Did your post include Righteousness as part of God's character?

Please read post # 8061 I think it's a good discussion point and lends itself to what we are discussing.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

As in NONE of them? Get up to speed on Rom 9 some day.

Sorry? As in none of whom?

 

[Magenta]

You are the first person I have ever met who didn't know that the God in the Old Testament was the preincarnate Jesus.

It's an honor to meet you because I didn't know people inside the Church wasn't taught this.

English is obviously not your first language. I asked you before if it was but you did not answer.

I have very clearly expressed the fact that Jesus pre-existed His incarnation as a human and manifested before that.
Your lack of comprehension is plainly a hindrance to communication with you, and you are also keen to slander.

Why do you not just admit that holy holy holy applies to Jesus? Shameful.

 

[Rufus]

Did He rescue them from Nebuchadnezzar?
From Rome in 70AD?

You set up questions as to require an answer you are looking for.
But, you are incompetent simultaneously, in hypocritically presenting God's Word snatched out from its context.

Why would he rescue "them from Nebuchadnezzar" who was ordained of God to punish Israel for their apostasy? But after Babylon fell, didn't God move his "servant" Cyrus' heart to let the captive exiles go free!?

And why would he rescue the Jews from Rome in 70 A.D. after Jesus pronounced judgment upon them, especially in the Mt. Olive Discourse? If he had rescued them, we would not currently be in the "times of the Gentiles", would we?

And I have "snatched" nothing from its context. God did redeem Israel from the Egyptians, didn't he?

 

[lrs68]

English is obviously not your first language. I asked you before if it was but you did not answer.

I have very clearly expressed the fact that Jesus pre-existed His incarnation as a human and manifested before that.
Your lack of comprehension is plainly a hindrance to communication with you, and you are also keen to slander.

Why do you not just admit that holy holy holy applies to Jesus? Shameful.

Because the text specifically states the LORD.

 

[Magenta]

Because the text specifically states the LORD.

Jesus is LORD. Angel of the LORD is Jesus, also. That is called a Christophany.

 

[Rufus]

Sorry? As in none of whom?

Jews! Don't you remember what you wrote?

 

[lrs68]

Jesus is LORD.

I said that

 

[Magenta]

I said that

You are all over the place. Brings Paul Simon to mind...

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Jews! Don't you remember what you wrote?

I know what I wrote, what you are saying is what isn't making sense.

 

[Rufus]

I read this and I want all who believe God created an elect people and a damned people. It gives a vivid picture of what Calvinsm/Reformed really teaches.

Imagine all the redeemed, unconditionally elected according to Calvinism, are standing on the precipice of hell in which untold billions of people suffer unimaginable, unquenchable, and unparalleled agony and torment. While the elect gaze into the cauldron of hell, one of the unconditionally elect exclaims God is holy. And that proclamation is immediately and worshipfully met by thunderous amens and hallelujahs since, whether redeemed or judged, God’s perfect and unlimited righteousness and holiness are irrefutably evident to all.

Then another of the unconditionally elect, caught up in the moment, resoundingly declares that God is love. An eerie pause follows this declaration. A hollow cavern of silence. A silence not from or awakening calmness, but a silence invoked by an insurmountable contradiction. A silence wherein an attribute of God is suppressed by the conquest of evidence; a silence like never before. It is not one of awe and glorious wonder but one of confusion and demoralization of the elect.

While God clearly dealt with the elect and the damned in holiness, and the elect in love, it is impossible to truthfully say God dealt with the damned, the reprobate, in perfect love, salvific love. Seeking to explain how God is perfect love and yet withholds his salvific love from those he created and predetermined for eternal torment is like trying to explain God as perfect holiness if he did not deal with all people and sin in perfect holiness.
...He may display or withhold exercising his omnipotence based on his moral attributes, but his moral nature of perfect holiness, righteousness, and love is always perfectly present.


Calvin makes God some He is not, He makes false judgments against the character of God. I don't understand how one could claim to know God, yet know nothing of His character at all.

I suspect many of us here have forgotten more than you will ever want to know of God's true character.

How ironic that what you wrote in your first paragraph is precisely what will happen in the eternal, visible kingdom.

Isa 66:22-24
22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. 24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
NIV

You would be very uncomfortable being among the Redeemed who will always be looking upon the wicked dead! You'll probably be virtue -signalling by crying crocodile tears into your beer and pleading to God to be merciful to them -- because after all, Love Rules!

And in case you can't notice, the "all" in "all mankind" is being used in the limited sense, since the context demands that the phrase is referring to all REDEEMED mankind and not the damned upon who the Redeemed will be looking.

 

[Rufus]

I know what I wrote, what you are saying is what isn't making sense.

Then why did you write what you did!? God has always had a remnant of Jews that were His! Remember the 7,000 who never bowed their knees to Baal, as one example?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Then why did you write what you did!? God has always had a remnant of Jews that were His! Remember the 7,000 who never bowed their knees to Baal, as one example?

That has no bearing on the point I made. Yes, God has a remnant of His chosen people, saved how??? Romans tells the chosen people they're not saved just because they are the chosen people. And the same goes to YOU. YOU are not more elect that God's chosen people, you are grafted in. If they aren't created saved, YOU aren't.