Understanding Genesis 1:1
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There are three heavens in scripture. The first heaven, where the birds fly in our atmosphere. The second heaven where the sun, moon, and stars are contained. And the third heaven, the dwelling place of God. The firmament in verse 14 separated the first and second heaven. The earth and heaven in verse one was overthrown by Satan's fall, and darkness covered the face of the deep.
Agreed.
Again, agreed.
That's not spelled out in Scripture, so I cannot affirm it. God had not yet said, "Let there be light." If you want to argue that Satan's fall perpetrated the 'darkness', then you must agree that Jesus is the light... but He is the Creator, so your claim self-destructs. The darkness was physical and Satan was not involved. There is no need to add to Scripture.
Again, agreed.
That's not spelled out in Scripture, so I cannot affirm it. God had not yet said, "Let there be light." If you want to argue that Satan's fall perpetrated the 'darkness', then you must agree that Jesus is the light... but He is the Creator, so your claim self-destructs. The darkness was physical and Satan was not involved. There is no need to add to Scripture.
Oh dear dear dear me what shall I do? 
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Yeah,
It would seem that the "darkness" in the Genesis account of creation is something of an anomaly. I see it as "there was no revelation of God in the natural". This is a sloppy summation that needs a lot of explanation.
"...and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
If we understand that everything was created THROUGH Christ then we can see the Organizational chart of heaven, as it were: God directs, Christ receives and commands the Spirit, the Spirit completes. Jesus even spoke of this order:
“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine."
There it is, the order of heaven: Father to Son to Spirit. And it is not like telephone where the original message degrades from ear to ear. It is a perfect word from origin to reality.
The beginning in Genesis 1, therefore, is the appearing of God in time and space. And, because all came through Christ, everything bears the fingerprints of the Son, if I may. This is so accurate that an honest study of the creation will reveal the nature of God Himself.
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead..."
We also see how easily the darkness retreats when "light" is spoken by Him.
After Satan's rebellion, he sought to co-opt the darkness to make it a kingdom by which men are enslaved. Getting men to love the darkness would seal the deal by man's own volition. Men are kept in darkness by their choice. In the absence of God (light) the ways of men become evil and self-serving, just like the nature of the enemy.
But the light from God never lost its power or authority, that is why the Gates of Hell cannot prevail against the gospel: the word of good news (God IS good). Gates don't come against anyone, they hold people inside. It's men's default setting to be held by the gates of darkness. The gospel, however, is the light of men by which all men can come to the One who speaks it: Christ and ultimately our Heavenly Father.
It would seem that the "darkness" in the Genesis account of creation is something of an anomaly. I see it as "there was no revelation of God in the natural". This is a sloppy summation that needs a lot of explanation.
"...and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
If we understand that everything was created THROUGH Christ then we can see the Organizational chart of heaven, as it were: God directs, Christ receives and commands the Spirit, the Spirit completes. Jesus even spoke of this order:
“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine."
There it is, the order of heaven: Father to Son to Spirit. And it is not like telephone where the original message degrades from ear to ear. It is a perfect word from origin to reality.
The beginning in Genesis 1, therefore, is the appearing of God in time and space. And, because all came through Christ, everything bears the fingerprints of the Son, if I may. This is so accurate that an honest study of the creation will reveal the nature of God Himself.
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead..."
We also see how easily the darkness retreats when "light" is spoken by Him.
After Satan's rebellion, he sought to co-opt the darkness to make it a kingdom by which men are enslaved. Getting men to love the darkness would seal the deal by man's own volition. Men are kept in darkness by their choice. In the absence of God (light) the ways of men become evil and self-serving, just like the nature of the enemy.
But the light from God never lost its power or authority, that is why the Gates of Hell cannot prevail against the gospel: the word of good news (God IS good). Gates don't come against anyone, they hold people inside. It's men's default setting to be held by the gates of darkness. The gospel, however, is the light of men by which all men can come to the One who speaks it: Christ and ultimately our Heavenly Father.
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Correct. As He appears the darkness must retreat. There is no choice. In time and space, this was probably visibly apparent much like it will be in the age to come.
"The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light..."
"The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light..."
Okay - you are wrong - so, I will correct you.
Your assumptions about me and my study habits are in error.
I am well aware that the Bible has meaning on multiple levels - 'surface', 'depth', and even more-and-more 'depth'...
Not everything in the Bible is a parable or "written in parable fashion" - nor does the Bible itself "tell us" that it (the whole thing or every part of it) is "written in parable fashion" - only - certain parts of it contain parables.
In the context of the verses where you quoted these words, the 'them' is referring to the multitudes - it does not apply to "everyone always"...
We definitely do not agree on your suggestion here...
Everything in the proper order - definitions, meaning, deeper meaning as the Holy Spirit gives understanding.
My "emphatic" statement is merely a "suggestive encouragement admonishment" of sorts from-one-brother-to-another.
Your assumptions about me and my study habits are in error.
I am well aware that the Bible has meaning on multiple levels - 'surface', 'depth', and even more-and-more 'depth'...
Not everything in the Bible is a parable or "written in parable fashion" - nor does the Bible itself "tell us" that it (the whole thing or every part of it) is "written in parable fashion" - only - certain parts of it contain parables.
In the context of the verses where you quoted these words, the 'them' is referring to the multitudes - it does not apply to "everyone always"...
We definitely do not agree on your suggestion here...
Everything in the proper order - definitions, meaning, deeper meaning as the Holy Spirit gives understanding.
My "emphatic" statement is merely a "suggestive encouragement admonishment" of sorts from-one-brother-to-another.
Oh dear dear dear me what shall I do?
Hello Mike allow me to first show what I mean as per how the word is used in various ways, the we can go from there.
#3117 יוֹם yowm {yome}
from an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; TWOT - 852; n m
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) AS A DIVISION OF TIME
1b2a) a working day, a day's journey
1c) days, lifetime (pl.)
1d) TIME, PERIOD (general)
1e) year
1f) temporal references
1f1) today
1f2) yesterday
1f3) tomorrow
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
From an unused root meaning TO BE HOT; a day (as the WARM HOURS), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a SPACE OF TIME defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially):—age, + ALWAYS, + CHRONICLES, CONTINUALLY (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X FULL, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X REQUIRED, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)
#3117.
יוֹם
yom (398a); a prim. root; day:—
NASB - afternoon*(1), age(8), age*(1), all(1), always*(14), amount*(2), battle(1), birthday*(1), Chronicles*(38), completely*(1), continually*(14), course*(1), daily(22), daily the days(1), day(1115), day of the days(1), day that the period(1), day's(6), day's every day(1), daylight*(1), days(635), days on the day(1), days to day(1), days you shall daily(1), days ago(1), days'(11), each(1), each day(4), entire(2), eternity(1), evening*(1), ever in your life*(1), every day(2), fate(1), first(5), forever*(11), forevermore*(1), full(5), full year(1), future*(1), holiday*(3), later*(2), length(1), life(12), life*(1), lifetime(2), lifetime*(1), live(1), long(2), long as i live(1), long*(11), midday*(1), now(5), older*(1), once(2), period(3), perpetually*(2), present(1), recently(1), reigns(1), ripe*(1), short-lived*(1), so long*(1), some time(1), survived*(2), time(45), time*(1), times*(2), today(172), today*(1), usual(1), very old*(1), when(10), when the days(1), whenever(1), while(3), whole(2), year(10), yearly(5), years(13), yesterday*(1).
—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
AV - day 2008, time 64, chronicles + H1697 37, daily 32, ever 17,
year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full 8
always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44; 2274
CONTINUED
Some examples where this word us used in a different way BELOW: Notice it's always used as a PERIOD OF TIME of some sort.
2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore(YOWM); and ye shall not fear other gods.
Genesis 4:3 And in process of time(YOWM) it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting(YOWM).
Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year(YOWM).
Exodus 13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year(YOWM).
Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth(YOWM), seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Genesis 40:4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season(YOWM) in ward.
Joshua 24:7 And when they cried unto the Lord, he put darkness between you and the Egyptians, and brought the sea upon them, and covered them; and your eyes have seen what I have done in Egypt: and ye dwelt in the wilderness a long season(YOWM).
1 Kings 9:3 And the Lord said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually(YOWM).
Genesis 29:14 And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space(YOWM) of a month.
Leviticus 26:34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long(YOWM) as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
Deuteronomy 28:29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore(YOWM), and no man shall save thee.
Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always(YOWM), that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually(YOWM).
Genesis 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full(YOWM) years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river.
I could go on and on, but I think this shows enough variation and instances which shows us that the Hebrew word YOWM is used for a PERIOD OF TIME of many sorts. Of course it is going to be used for a day more than any other word because God is going to use "SPECIFIC MENTIONS OF DAYS" more than any other period of time. Whenever a Prophets says that there will be so and so many days of this or that he used the word YOWM. But when it was meant as EVERMORE he also used the word YOWWM, and when it meant a YEAR they also used the word YOWM, etc. etc.
So God uses the word YOWM and it's up to us to EVENTUALLY figure out what "PERIOD OF TIME" He(God) meant by that !! The Hebrew language had 4000 words and no vowels at the time, it was a primitive language of course. We shouldn't allow the professors of that time (Pharisees, Scribes) to sway us into saying this has to mean ONE DAY, it was a period of time and it's up to us to figure it out in the end. All men knew back then comparatively speaking was that we had days/years/months. So they had to see it as something, what was it going to be ? Day, Year, Month, Evermore, Perpetually, Full, Always, X Required, Space of time etc. etc. They sure didn't have a clue about how big the universe us like we do, they had no concept of billions of years like we do.
So God created the Universe in a period of 7 YOWMS...........which as shown above means periods of times in various ways. We have to figure it out, we can't allow the dog to lead us here, we have to lead the dog. We can't allow the word DAY (YOWM) to force us to look at things in way which it drives people away from the Gospel. We want to understand the facts, therefore we can reach people in truth. I have seen many young people tell me, hey, anyone that thinks the universe is 6000 years old, I don't want to hear about your God man, you live in la la land. But when I speak in terms of knowledge, they listen and say so you believe in Evolution, and I say why ? God created the Universe over a 13.7 billion year period, as he so desired ? It makes them think, OK.....It opens a door to gan them via what I see as facts. But if we say the Universe is 6000 years old we have no hope to reach them brother. And that is my job, that is why I researched it, I hated Science in school, but its my job to reach the masses with truths, so I dug in.
Morning and Evening mean beginning and Ending of a day, or of a period of time.
As per the Day of the Lord, that is the Day God's Wrath starts on, but the Day of the LORD lasts 3.5 years does it not ?
I hope the above helped explain my positions somewhat and opens you up to seeing my POV here. YOWM is always inserted for a PERIOD OF TIME, its up to us to understand what that Period of time means in each instance. God Bless
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That was a post to a guy named Mike who had the same hang up. The bible DOES NOT SAY DAY, the bible instead says YOWM, the Hebrew language was very primitive, it had like 4000 words, our English language today has 500,000 words or more. So, words were used like this for ANYTHING to do with TIME, then the description told us what that time was meant to be. God gave us that description, one Moses had no clue what it meant, so YOWM was used, and the reader had to buy into the fact that whatever those 6 YOWMS of creation were, it would take a long time before mankind figured out. As in TODAY, we know how old the Universe is, we know how fast the Speed of Light is and we see stars which are billions of light years away. So, you keep buying in to the rubbish if you want, you are not correct, and you could reach many more people, as I do, by understanding the full facts.
2 Kings 17:37 And the statutes, and the ordinances, and the law, and the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore(YOWM); and ye shall not fear other gods.
Genesis 4:3 And in process of time(YOWM) it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting(YOWM).
Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year(YOWM).
Exodus 13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year(YOWM).
Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth(YOWM), seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Genesis 40:4 And the captain of the guard charged Joseph with them, and he served them: and they continued a season(YOWM) in ward.
Joshua 24:7 And when they cried unto the Lord, he put darkness between you and the Egyptians, and brought the sea upon them, and covered them; and your eyes have seen what I have done in Egypt: and ye dwelt in the wilderness a long season(YOWM).
1 Kings 9:3 And the Lord said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually(YOWM).
Genesis 29:14 And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space(YOWM) of a month.
Leviticus 26:34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long(YOWM) as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
Deuteronomy 28:29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore(YOWM), and no man shall save thee.
Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always(YOWM), that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Genesis 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually(YOWM).
Genesis 41:1 And it came to pass at the end of two full(YOWM) years, that Pharaoh dreamed: and, behold, he stood by the river.
I could go on and on, but I think this shows enough variation and instances which shows us that the Hebrew word YOWM is used for a PERIOD OF TIME of many sorts. Of course it is going to be used for a day more than any other word because God is going to use "SPECIFIC MENTIONS OF DAYS" more than any other period of time. Whenever a Prophets says that there will be so and so many days of this or that he used the word YOWM. But when it was meant as EVERMORE he also used the word YOWWM, and when it meant a YEAR they also used the word YOWM, etc. etc.
So God uses the word YOWM and it's up to us to EVENTUALLY figure out what "PERIOD OF TIME" He(God) meant by that !! The Hebrew language had 4000 words and no vowels at the time, it was a primitive language of course. We shouldn't allow the professors of that time (Pharisees, Scribes) to sway us into saying this has to mean ONE DAY, it was a period of time and it's up to us to figure it out in the end. All men knew back then comparatively speaking was that we had days/years/months. So they had to see it as something, what was it going to be ? Day, Year, Month, Evermore, Perpetually, Full, Always, X Required, Space of time etc. etc. They sure didn't have a clue about how big the universe us like we do, they had no concept of billions of years like we do.
So God created the Universe in a period of 7 YOWMS...........which as shown above means periods of times in various ways. We have to figure it out, we can't allow the dog to lead us here, we have to lead the dog. We can't allow the word DAY (YOWM) to force us to look at things in way which it drives people away from the Gospel. We want to understand the facts, therefore we can reach people in truth. I have seen many young people tell me, hey, anyone that thinks the universe is 6000 years old, I don't want to hear about your God man, you live in la la land. But when I speak in terms of knowledge, they listen and say so you believe in Evolution, and I say why ? God created the Universe over a 13.7 billion year period, as he so desired ? It makes them think, OK.....It opens a door to gan them via what I see as facts. But if we say the Universe is 6000 years old we have no hope to reach them brother. And that is my job, that is why I researched it, I hated Science in school, but its my job to reach the masses with truths, so I dug in.
Morning and Evening mean beginning and Ending of a day, or of a period of time.
As per the Day of the Lord, that is the Day God's Wrath starts on, but the Day of the LORD lasts 3.5 years does it not ?
I hope the above helped explain my positions somewhat and opens you up to seeing my POV here. YOWM is always inserted for a PERIOD OF TIME, its up to us to understand what that Period of time means in each instance. God Bless
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That was a post to a guy named Mike who had the same hang up. The bible DOES NOT SAY DAY, the bible instead says YOWM, the Hebrew language was very primitive, it had like 4000 words, our English language today has 500,000 words or more. So, words were used like this for ANYTHING to do with TIME, then the description told us what that time was meant to be. God gave us that description, one Moses had no clue what it meant, so YOWM was used, and the reader had to buy into the fact that whatever those 6 YOWMS of creation were, it would take a long time before mankind figured out. As in TODAY, we know how old the Universe is, we know how fast the Speed of Light is and we see stars which are billions of light years away. So, you keep buying in to the rubbish if you want, you are not correct, and you could reach many more people, as I do, by understanding the full facts.
And the evening and the morning were the first day.
And the evening and the morning were the second day.
And the evening and the morning were the third day.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
I suggest that they were all the same length of time.
And the evening and the morning were the second day.
And the evening and the morning were the third day.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
I suggest that they were all the same length of time.
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I generally agree with this much...
I believe this part to be in error...
The 'firmament' is not a thing that separates one 'heaven' from another - it is a 'space' that separates two things (water and water):
Genesis 1:
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
~ the 'firmament' separates the waters from the waters
~ the 'firmament' is 'Heaven' - a 'space' above the earth
~ the 'lights' are in the firmament
~ the birds fly in the firmament
(same firmament)
I believe it is reasonable to suggest that where the birds fly is the first heaven and where the sun, moon, and stars are is the second heaven; however, remember that they are both part of the [singular] 'firmament' - a 'space' above the earth that separates 'waters' from 'waters'.
Darkness covered the face of the deep simply because there was no light yet at that point in time. It is not any more complicated than that...
I believe this part to be in error...
The 'firmament' is not a thing that separates one 'heaven' from another - it is a 'space' that separates two things (water and water):
Genesis 1:
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
~ the 'firmament' separates the waters from the waters
~ the 'firmament' is 'Heaven' - a 'space' above the earth
~ the 'lights' are in the firmament
~ the birds fly in the firmament
(same firmament)
I believe it is reasonable to suggest that where the birds fly is the first heaven and where the sun, moon, and stars are is the second heaven; however, remember that they are both part of the [singular] 'firmament' - a 'space' above the earth that separates 'waters' from 'waters'.
Darkness covered the face of the deep simply because there was no light yet at that point in time. It is not any more complicated than that...
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In the beginning God created one heaven and one earth. Then we have an overthrow of heaven and earth from Satan's fall. God then proceeds to created the heaven and earth as we know now, with the first heaven, the dwelling place of man. And the second heaven, the dwelling place of the sun, moon, and stars. When God created the heaven and earth in verse 1, there was originally no atmosphere. The third heaven already existed.