Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[Mem]

When David prayed, "create in me a clean heart," he was using the same meaning as in Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created, i.e., something from nothing..."and renew a right spirit within me (Psalm 51:10)." So, this "take me as I am" approach seemed to have been attached to '..and let me be.' Am I wrong? And if so, how?

 

[Mem]

JS, seeing that you have had your bread and milk, the next course is chicken breast, prepared to perfection.

 

[CS1]

Actually, I do.

Love is patient
Love is kind
Love does not judge
Love allows you to see past all the bad and into the good of a person
Love compels you to keep on trying, even when you fall short
Love wills you you to never let go and never give up
Love changes you so slowly and gently it is painless and joyful
Love takes away the pain of the scorn of others.
Love is the very presence of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit

And the greatest act of love of all is forgiveness.

you forgot one LOVE OBEYS how can you say you love God and not obey him?

 

[Mark47Oz]

you forgot one LOVE OBEYS how can you say you love God and not obey him?

I think you and I are done talking really. You are so focussed on righteousness that your heart has become hard as rock.

May our Father in heaven bless you always, May his son Jesus walk with you and may the Holy Spirit be upon you

 

[Mem]

David admitted his guilt, but he let go of shame, so don't let anyone shame you as though hopeless, not even yourself. Is this is the core issue that the op is attempting to address? The shame that leads to shunning away which leads to condemnation and death vs. the guilt that leads to repentance toward which leads to salvation and life?

 

[CS1]

I think you and I are done talking really. You are so focussed on righteousness that your heart has become hard as rock.

May our Father in heaven bless you always, May his son Jesus walk with you and may the Holy Spirit be upon you

no actually I have been set free and you can too.

 

[Wansvic]

I think you and I are done talking really. You are so focussed on righteousness that your heart has become hard as rock.

May our Father in heaven bless you always, May his son Jesus walk with you and may the Holy Spirit be upon you

The following scripture speaks directly to what CS1 Posted:

John 14:23-24
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

you forgot one LOVE OBEYS how can you say you love God and not obey him?

Heb 10:26-27
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us!

 

[oyster67]

Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality


Unconditional love will not brush sin under the carpet and mislead a person into thinking they are going to Heaven when then they are going to Hell. Love never lies to or deceives others. What this world needs is less tickling and more truth.

 

[H3n0515]

I think that lustful relationships are certainly immoral

If it is in love I don't really have an issue

It has nothing to do with me because I'm not homosexual

Using a woman because I'm horny is bad too

1 Corinthians 7 says marriage is a leniency for those who are lustful

 

[kaylagrl]

Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality


Unconditional love will not brush sin under the carpet and mislead a person into thinking they are going to Heaven when then they are going to Hell. Love never lies to or deceives others. What this world needs is less tickling and more truth.

Well, here's the issue brother, I don't see the church reaching out to the gay community in love or otherwise. I would think if you looked into it homosexuals are, for the most part, an unreached part of society when it comes to the church. You know me by now, that I'm never about hiding the truth. But the church has largly accepted divorce, which the Bible says God hates. I know Christians that have been divorced 2,3 or more times, I know pastors that have been married and divorced more than once. So that's in house, and we pretty much turn a blind eye to it. I'm not saying there is never a legitimate reason to be divorced, but the church has pretty much let down on this issue that use to be considered wrong. A divorce use to be a big deal, now we don't even think about it. I'm just asking the question, do we need to change our approach, not the message.

 

[Wansvic]

If it is in love I don't really have an issue

A person's choice to love an individual or not is irrelevant. It is not a valid excuse for refusing to obey God.

The first commandment is to Love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. Evidence that we have put Him first is seen in our obedience to His sayings. Jesus said those who keep His sayings are those who love Him. He goes on to say those who refuse His sayings do not love Him. It cannot get any clearer than that.

“And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.” Mark 12:30

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me." John 14:23-24

 

[JerryInBoston]

I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.

Blessings.

Any church that does as you said, "bait and switch", has it's own problems. But that being said, the the Word of God is clear on what behavior God has determined to be sinful, among which is homosexuality.

We are all sinners and we all need to examine ourselves. When we sin, we grieve God because sin is rebellion against God. Some who were living a homosexuality lifestyle are able to live a lifetime abstaining from a practicing homosexuality lifestyle, just as some are able to stop fornicating, or stop being a drunkard, stop adulterous relationships, stop gossiping, stop stealing, stop using God's name in vain, etc, etc, etc. But none are able to be perfectly sinless, which is why we have an advocate in Jesus to whom we confess our sins and who is faithful to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We must love our brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of the sin in their lives. But love does not require approval of sinful behavior or require us to embrace or even tolerate their sins, just as we don't tolerate our own sinful behavior.

The Word of God is our only authority on what God calls sinful behavior.

 

[H3n0515]

A person's choice to love an individual or not is irrelevant. It is not a valid excuse for refusing to obey God.

The first commandment is to Love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. Evidence that we have put Him first is seen in our obedience to His sayings. Jesus said those who keep His sayings are those who love Him. He goes on to say those who refuse His sayings do not love Him. It cannot get any clearer than that.

“And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.” Mark 12:30

"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me." John 14:23-24

Jesus says nothing against homosexuality...

The second part of the law is to love all as yourself...

I think this covers it to the extent it does not involve me.

Whether they are saved is for God to say, not us

 

[H3n0515]

For sure, me being against homosexuality won't make them straight... howsoever I feel about it...

I tend to avoid futile efforts

 

[H3n0515]

It should be about your relationship with God

Using him to hate misses the message

 

[JerryInBoston]

Jesus says nothing against homosexuality...

The second part of the law is to love all as yourself...

I think this covers it to the extent it does not involve me.

Whether they are saved is for God to say, not us

Blessings.

Respectfully, Jesus is part of the eternal triune Godhead. Jesus is the Word made flesh. As the eternal Word, Jesus gave to Moses and to Paul that which to write, both to Israel and the gentiles respectively, on the sin of homosexuality.

Jesus explicitly said "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and the twain shall be one flesh." Jesus, the eternal Son of God, is telling us of God's complimentary creation of man and woman, designed by God for God's purpose.

If your argument for approving of homosexual behavior is based on there being no explicit quote from Jesus during His earthly ministry condemning homosexuality, you have to ask yourself: is pedophilia also acceptable, since Jesus is never quoted explicitly during His earthly ministry condemning that behavior either. Slippery slope, brother

God has revealed to us in his Word that homosexuality is sinful behavior. Period. We don't get to change that.

 

[H3n0515]

Blessings.

Respectfully, Jesus is part of the eternal triune Godhead. Jesus is the Word made flesh. As the eternal Word, Jesus gave to Moses and to Paul that which to write, both to Israel and the gentiles respectively, on the sin of homosexuality.

Jesus explicitly said "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and the twain shall be one flesh." Jesus, the eternal Son of God, is telling us of God's complimentary creation of man and woman, designed by God for God's purpose.

If your argument for approving of homosexual behavior is based on there being no explicit quote from Jesus during His earthly ministry condemning homosexuality, you have to ask yourself: is pedophilia also acceptable, since Jesus is never quoted explicitly during His earthly ministry condemning that behavior either. Slippery slope, brother

God has revealed to us in his Word that homosexuality is sinful behavior. Period. We don't get to change that.

Galatians 2:19-21

You make a mockery of the cross

 

[DeanM]

One disappears another appears. Accounts come and go so quickly here.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Galatians 2:19-21

You make a mockery of the cross

How so?

 

[H3n0515]

How so?

If the law brings righteousness Jesus died for nothing