Twinkling of an eye

[Absolutely]

I agree with much of what Gaebelein writes, here:

[quoting; bracketed comments mine]

"Revelation 6:9-11.

"The four living creatures have uttered their four-fold “Come.” They are thus seen in connection with the providential government of the world. [note: I've mentioned before that I believe "the 4 living creatures" in some way represent the "4-directional plotment" of Israel of OT times--these match their descriptions--which I won't get into here]. Under the fifth seal the scene changes completely. John saw under the altar the souls of them that had been slain. And they cry, “How long, O Lord!” Who are they? Not the martyrs of past ages. They are risen from the dead and are in glory with redeemed bodies. [note: I disagree that any OT saints are "resurrected" by this point in the chronology, based on Dan12:13, etc; the Church which is His body, yes]. The words of the Lord in the Olivet discourse give us the key. Speaking to His Jewish disciples He said: “Then shall they deliver you up, and shall kill you and ye shall be hated of all nations for My Name’s sake” (Matthew 24:9). [agree with this]

"The Lord speaks of another company of Jewish disciples who will bear a witness during the end of the age, after the rapture of the Church. He will not leave Himself without a witness. He calls a remnant of His people Israel and they bear a witness to the coming of the Messiah, their coming Deliverer and King. Many of them suffer martyrdom. Their cry, “How long?” is the well-known prayer of Jewish saints; and their prayer to have their blood avenged is equally a Jewish prayer. Christians [presently/'in this present age'] are not supplicating for vengeance on their foes. The prayer for vengeance refers us to the imprecatory psalms prewritten by the Holy Spirit in anticipation of the final persecution of Jewish believers. And the fellow-servants and their brethren, who are yet to be killed (Revelation 6:11), are the martyrs of that remnant during the final three and one-half years, which is the great tribulation."

--Gaebelein, Commentary on Revelation 6

[end quoting; bracketed comments mine, parenthesis original]

It is far fetched that any christians are left on earth after the mid trib.

The word is emphatic that ALL take the mark.
Emphatic.

The "144,000" (of one nation) are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (plural nations), in Rev7 (though both groups are "saved" persons, i.e. "saints" [having come to faith within/during the trib years]).

"The Church which is His body" is not either of these two ^ .



And "we" ('the Church which is His body') are certainly not (nor will ever be) the "144,000"

There is nothing indicating either groups are new believers.
Why do you need them to be new believers?

 

[Absolutely]

EDIT to add: (NO "unbelievers/non-believers/unsaved" persons will ENTER the MK-age upon its commencement, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth; ONLY the "saints/believers/the righteous/'BLESSED'/etc) ]

I doubt it.
At the end of the 1k the rebellious are put down for the last time.
Not likely they are believers.

 

[Absolutely]

I agree with you dc, God is fully able to safeguard His people no matter the circumstances going on around them. There is no pre-trib or mid-trib rapture. Those expecting such will be sorely disappointed someday. I believe many saints will be killed during the tribulation, but it won't hurt a spiritual hair on their heads. What an honor to be a martyr.

Read rev 14.
There are 2 gatherings in rev 14 DURING the gt.
Postrib rapture is TOTALLY DEBUNKED.
Literally impossible.

 

[Absolutely]

""--I've pointed out how that, according to Scripture, the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]" (pertaining to "the MARRIAGE" itself) is not the "TEN [or FIVE] Virgins [PLURAL]" (pertaining to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER," which is distinct from "the MARRIAGE" in both purpose and timing)… IOW, Jesus is NOT coming to "MARRY TEN [or even FIVE] VIRGINS [PLURAL]"!! (that is twisted doctrine! ""

The 5 wise went into the marriage chamber.
Your point is false.
You have Jesus in bed with what??
What other than his bride???

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I doubt it.
At the end of the 1k the rebellious are put down for the last time.
Not likely they are believers.

Now you are speaking about those who will have been BORN (to these ppl) DURING the MK age. They will not be "BORN automatically righteous" (and are not the same identical ppl who ENTERED the MK age at its STARTING POINT).

But at the START of the MK age, ONLY "saints/believers/the righteous/BLESSED" are the ones to ENTER the MK age (these, in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children [the only ppl who will have that capacity, during that MK age]). Everyone else is "punished" per the way that Isaiah 24:21-22[23]'s FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words aligns [time-wise, circumstance-wise] with Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 (meaning, those who don't ENTER the MK age [being saved persons], are instead "PUNISHED[/see Rev19:19,21; see Matt25:31-34,46; see Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50; see Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48, esp v.46; see Matt22:8-14, esp. v.13; and all the parallels to these (on and on...), regarding "still-living persons" at the time of His Second Coming to the earth].

The problem becomes when we "READ 'the Church which is His body' INTO" all these passages (and more) set at the time/context of His Second Coming to the earth, instead (and not pertaining to our Rapture).

 

[Wall]

The rapture is the next major event.

If you are not interested ,you will be afterwards.
Only those waiting and watching go.

And seeing here how the Rapturist believe so so so strongley in the rapture no matter what scripture says, when it doesnt come, there will be a great falling away from the faith. Just as prophesied.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The "144,000" (of one nation) are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (plural nations), in Rev7 (though both groups are "saved" persons, i.e. "saints" [having come to faith within/during the trib years]).

"The Church which is His body" is not either of these two ^ .



And "we" ('the Church which is His body') are certainly not (nor will ever be) the "144,000"

Revelation 7:1-8 = 144,000 out of the twelve tribes Israel

Revelation 7:9-17 = From every nation, tribe, people and language (Gentiles)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The word is emphatic that ALL take the mark.
Emphatic.

Rev20:4 (speaking, in pt b, about those who had died/were martyred during the second half of trib), "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, [pt b--->] and the souls of those having been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not take the mark upon the forehead, and upon their hand. And they lived [same word as in Rev2:8!] and reigned with Christ a thousand years."


Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days." (these are ppl who make it ALIVE through to the end of the trib, and ENTER it in their MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing/bearing children; parallel with about 10 or so "BLESSED" passages regarding same, in the Gospels & in Rev, pertaining to their ENTRANCE into the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK age [as "still-living" saints]).


"ALL" is merely the INTENTION of the beast, his AIM/GOAL/OBJECTIVE (is what that passage refers to)... not that he's 100% successful in that endeavor...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Revelation 7:1-8 = 144,000 out of the twelve tribes Israel

Revelation 7:9-17 = From every nation, tribe, people and language (Gentiles)

That's what I said.

These are not "the Church which is His body" (who had been "Raptured" out well before these folks come to faith WITHIN the trib).




"The Church which is His body" (distinct from these ^ ) is made up of both Jew/Israel and Gentiles... but considered NEITHER, in our standing before God "IN Christ" ( the "ONE BODY"... etc).


Rev7, by contrast, has the two distinct groups set in contradistinction to the other.

 

[Ahwatukee]

That's what I said.

These are not "the Church which is His body" (who had been "Raptured" out well before these folks come to faith WITHIN the trib).




"The Church which is His body" (distinct from these ^ ) is made up of both Jew/Israel and Gentiles... but considered NEITHER, in our standing before God "IN Christ" ( the "ONE BODY"... etc).


Rev7, by contrast, has the two distinct groups set in contradistinction to the other.

Yeah, I was just agreeing with you and added the two groups.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yeah, I was just agreeing with you and added the two groups.

Okay, thank you for clarifying.

 

[dcontroversal]

Rev20:4 (speaking, in pt b, about those who had died/were martyred during the second half of trib), "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, [pt b--->] and the souls of those having been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not take the mark upon the forehead, and upon their hand. And they lived [same word as in Rev2:8!] and reigned with Christ a thousand years."


Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days." (these are ppl who make it ALIVE through to the end of the trib, and ENTER it in their MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing/bearing children; parallel with about 10 or so "BLESSED" passages regarding same, in the Gospels & in Rev, pertaining to their ENTRANCE into the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK age [as "still-living" saints]).


"ALL" is merely the INTENTION of the beast, his AIM/GOAL/OBJECTIVE (is what that passage refers to)... not that he's 100% successful in that endeavor...

He dismisses the fact that only those deluded take it <--those that will not receive the love of the truth.....going to be a lot of surprised believers that will think they missed the boat when they are dying in the GT.....

 

[garee]

Revelation 7:1-8 = 144,000 out of the twelve tribes Israel

Revelation 7:9-17 = From every nation, tribe, people and language (Gentiles)

Its all one group of sealed people it has nothng to do with the flesh or gender of any one nation. It is describing the bride of Christ the new creature made up of many lively stones to make up the spiritual house the church .

 

[garee]

Rev20:4 (speaking, in pt b, about those who had died/were martyred during the second half of trib), "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, [pt b--->] and the souls of those having been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not take the mark upon the forehead, and upon their hand. And they lived [same word as in Rev2:8!] and reigned with Christ a thousand years."


Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days." (these are ppl who make it ALIVE through to the end of the trib, and ENTER it in their MORTAL BODIES capable of reproducing/bearing children; parallel with about 10 or so "BLESSED" passages regarding same, in the Gospels & in Rev, pertaining to their ENTRANCE into the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK age [as "still-living" saints]).


"ALL" is merely the INTENTION of the beast, his AIM/GOAL/OBJECTIVE (is what that passage refers to)... not that he's 100% successful in that endeavor...

I don't think the bride of Christ the church is missing for any time period. .

Those who were not sealed in the forehead and hand. Two words used to represent "will" throughout the word of God. They were left as natural unconverted mankind 666.

I would think John knew what the mark was. He had all the previous knowledge needed to beleive what the word meant when it left his lips or pen . The mark would appear to the mark of Cain he would not buy the spiritual truth of God and killed the messenger of the gospel, Abel

God marked him that he would increase his work load to a point where Cain said he could not bear it as living hell . God remained true to his mark. Cain suffered his entire life time with no rest a restless wander having no heavenly home to seek after in the thought of a new life. No one knows how long the sentence lasted. It could of been ten of our life times.

The language in the book of Revelation is signified and it would include the parable in Chapter 20 as a continuation from Chapter 19 the foundation of the mark giving us a understanding what it represents .

The false prophet who had performed the signs on the father of lies behalf—signs as lying wonders by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. They walked by sight after the temporal.Seeking after a signs and wonders gospel .having no faith by which they could beleive

Receiving the mark is believing the lie .

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to do battle with the one who rode the horse and with his army. Now the beast was seized, and along with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf—signs by which he deceived those "who had received the mark" of the beast and those who worshiped his image. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire burning with sulfur. The others were killed by the sword that extended from the mouth of the one who rode the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves with their flesh. Revelation 19: 19 -21

There were many antichrists there at that time who come under the mark .

Signs by which he deceived those "who had received the mark"(believed the lie)

 

[Wall]

JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: AND I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:

I am married to you {the bride of Christ}. Goin to Jerusalem, Zion, His Holy Mountain {in the twinkling of an eye}. When we meet Christ in the air at the gathering of His Bride {you call the rapture} we will be headin to 1000 yr period of rest. I guess you rapturist will now have to claim there will be 2 brides.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Israel [faithful Israel, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth] will be "gathered ONE by ONE" to worship the Lord at Jerusalem, per Isaiah 27:12-13 / Matt24:29-31 (etc), at the "GREAT trumpet" [distinct from the 7th [judgment] Trumpet of Rev, btw] (and, by angels "HE SHALL SEND" to do so).

"The Church which is His body" (by contrast) will experience the "episynagōgēs [NOUN] UNTO HIM" ("IN THE AIR") "and so [/in this manner] shall we ever be WITH [G4862 - syn - denoting "UNION"-with/"IDENTIFICATION"-with] the Lord," and it will instead be "the Lord Himself" (not "angels HE SHALL SEND" to do so, see). We (by contrast) will be "caught-up/away* AS ONE" (not "ONE by ONE," as the other circumstance is said to be).
[*"from a derivative of haireomai [G138]" (I mentioned G138 when I had pointed out 2Th2:13 and that G138 word found there, and speaking there to/for/about "the Church which is His body")]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ So G138 in 2Th2:13 is: "At all times we are obligated to thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God chose [G138 - heilato / haireo] you to be the first fruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through faith in the truth."



[from Bible Hub] -

HELPS Word-Studies - "138 hairéomai (a primitive verb, always in the Greek middle voice) – properly, lay hold of by a personal choice.
"[The Greek middle voice emphasizes the self-interest of the one preferring (deciding) to grasp or take.]"

"[G138] choose.
Probably akin to airo [G142]; to take for oneself, i.e. To prefer -- choose. Some of the forms are borrowed from a cognate hellomai hel'-lom-ahee; which is otherwise obsolete."


"G142 - airo
Definition: to raise, take up, lift
Usage: I raise, lift up, take away, remove."

 

[Absolutely]

Now you are speaking about those who will have been BORN (to these ppl) DURING the MK age. They will not be "BORN automatically righteous" (and are not the same identical ppl who ENTERED the MK age at its STARTING POINT).

But at the START of the MK age, ONLY "saints/believers/the righteous/BLESSED" are the ones to ENTER the MK age (these, in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children [the only ppl who will have that capacity, during that MK age]). Everyone else is "punished" per the way that Isaiah 24:21-22[23]'s FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words aligns [time-wise, circumstance-wise] with Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 (meaning, those who don't ENTER the MK age [being saved persons], are instead "PUNISHED[/see Rev19:19,21; see Matt25:31-34,46; see Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50; see Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48, esp v.46; see Matt22:8-14, esp. v.13; and all the parallels to these (on and on...), regarding "still-living persons" at the time of His Second Coming to the earth].

The problem becomes when we "READ 'the Church which is His body' INTO" all these passages (and more) set at the time/context of His Second Coming to the earth, instead (and not pertaining to our Rapture).

No
There is no evidence the human race is wiped out at the second coming.
Nor evidence of believers on earth at the second coming.
Rev 14 not only has 2 harvests during the gt,it also declares "blessed are they that die in the Lord from this time onward."
(Because no more living enter heaven,only by marterdom)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

No
There is no evidence the human race is wiped out at the second coming.
Nor evidence of believers on earth at the second coming.
Rev 14 not only has 2 harvests during the gt,it also declares "blessed are they that die in the Lord from this time onward."
(Because no more living enter heaven,only by marterdom)

You believe there is more than one "Rapture"; I do not.

(So, I am not referring to "Rapture," when I speak of the events surrounding His Second Coming to the earth FOR the commencement of the promised AND PROPHESIED earthly Millennial Kingdom, aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth]," aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [distinct from "the MARRIAGE"]," aka "the age [singular] to come" etc etc)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I see all of the following to be parallels regarding "His Second Coming to the earth" (not our Rapture [which pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body," AS ONE, at ONE point in time]; not any Rapture whatsoever, at that time... only "gathering to Jerusalem"):

--ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come/etc" passages

--"the kingdom of the heavens" (the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom)

--"the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" passages (ditto the above; referred to in a few different passages)

--the "G347 - shall sit down [around a table / at a meal]" of Matt8:11 and its parallel

--the entire Olivet Discourse (except for the section of Lk21:12-24a about the events of 70ad)... so Matt24-25/Mk13/Lk21

--the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" references of Lk18:8[chpt-17-end] "avenge IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]," [also Romans 16:20 (distinct LOCATION, same time-frame) and Rev1:1/22:6] (THIS is covering specific limited future time period leading UP TO the earthly MK, which will commence at His Second Coming to the earth)

--"the end [singular] of the age [singular]" in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (also Matt24:3 and His response in chpts 24-25); as well as "the age [singular] to come" which follows the other, sequentially, but found in Matt12:32 (the MK) located in the text before the Matt13 passage

--the two "RETURN" passages of Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal; and Luke 19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN," when He will deal out responsibilities regarding "have thou authority over 10 cities" and "likewise... be thou over 5" (and the parallels to these; see also Rev2:26-27, Rev19:15b ["SHALL [future] shepherd them [the nations]..."], Rev20:4, etc)

--ALL "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" passages (for those not entering the earthly MK time period, as ALL "saints/the righteous" WILL be present and accounted FOR, to enjoy)

--the "ye [the 12] shall sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" (Lk22:30,16,18 and Matt19:28 [compare with Matt25:31-34 for TIMING: His 2nd Coming to the earth])

--about eight to TEN "BLESSED" passages in the gospels [correlating with Dan12:12's "BLESSED" (specific time slot ["Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days"]--referring to "still-living" persons, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth) and Rev19:9's "BLESSED" both/all pertaining to their entrance into the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His RETURN to the earth at the time of His Second Coming to the earth]

--the Transfiguration (a picture of His Second Coming glory)