Trinity Questions

[2ndTimothyGroup]

There are, in fact, 9 explicit NT references to Jesus as God. This is one of them.

Yep. I've been posting them one at a time.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

When Jesus prayed to the Father, was He praying to Himself?

No. "Trinity" as currently defined by most is the false Roman Catholic heresy. There is an eternal Heavenly Trio. May this help you:

JEHOVAH Elohiym is the eternal family/relationship. JEHOVAH is the singular eternal family name, while Elohiym (Gods, trio) are the individual Persons/Beings that exist in that eternal family/relationship, Matt. 28:19; 1 Jhn. 5:7,8.

1. JEHOVAH, "the LORD" (Gen. 19:24b.; Zec. 3:2b.), "the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:9,13,22) is "the only true God" (Jhn. 17:3; τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν), "God" (Jhn. 1:1b.; τὸν θεόν), "thy God" (Heb. 1:9; ὁ θεός σου), "God the Father" (2 Jhn. 1:3; θεοῦ πατρός) the "person" (Job 13:8; Heb. 1:3) identified in the beginning as the "God said" (Gen. 1:6), for it was by Him that Revelation says, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (Rev. 4:11).

2. Jesus JEHOVAH (Gen.49:18; Exo. 14:13; 2 Chr. 20:17; Jon. 2:9; Psa. 119:174 HOT) or JEHOVAH Immanuel (see Psa. 46:7,11 HOT)), "the LORD" (Gen. 19:24a.; Zec. 3:2a.), "the son of man" (Dan. 7:13), "the only begotten" (Jhn. 1:14,18, 3:16,18; Heb. 11:17; 1 Jhn. 4:9, is basically monogene (μονογενῆ; Jhn. 3:16; Heb. 11:17; 1 Jhn. 4:9) or monogenes (μονογενὴς; Jhn. 1:18) or monogenous (μονογενοῦς; Jhn. 1:14, 3:18)), "the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father" (2 Jhn. 1:3; Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ πατρός) is not "the only true God" (Jhn. 17:3), but is "the express image of his person" (Heb. 1:3; χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ), being "the Word was God" (Jhn. 1:1c.; θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος), who is "O God" (Heb. 1:9; ὁ θεός), the "just person" (Matt. 27:24, "person", 2 Cor. 2:10) indentified in the beginning as "God made" (Gen. 1:7) on behalf of the Father's direction (Pro. 8:22-36; Exo. 20:12), for it was by him (the Son) that John says, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (Jhn. 1:3), that Ephesians says, "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:" (Eph. 3:9), that Colossians says, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" (Col. 1:16), that Hebrews says, "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Heb. 1:2), the very, "I AM THAT I AM" (Exo. 3:14), the great "I am" (Jhn. 8:58; ἐγὼ εἰμί), the very "fellow" (Zec. 13:7) of the Father's person, and who comes in the name of His Father (Jhn. 5:43).

3. The Holy Spirit of JEHOVAH (Luk. 4:18), "his Spirit" (Isa. 48:16), "the LORD" (Zec. 3:2c.), the "another Comforter" (Jhn. 14:6), even "he", "the spirit of truth" (Jhn. 14:17, 15:26, 16:13), "God" (Acts 5:4), identified in the beginning as "the Spirit of God moved" (Gen. 1:2) and "God saw" (Gen. 1 throughout, the eternal Witness who inspired the scriptures; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21), by which/whom everything is "created" (Psa. 104:30) and "made" (Job 33:4), whose nature is a mystery left unspoken of in scripture, but is the person who does "not speak of himself" (Jhn. 16:13), but comes in the name of the Son (Jhn. 14:26).

The eternal Heavenly Trio - family JEHOVAH Elohiym, over all creation as "Godhead".

If I were to try to present this idea in a limited humanistic fashion, it might go something like this:

Father Jones

Son Jones Jr.

Cousin Jones.

The trio "Jones", or "Jones" family.

Three Persons/Beings working together as united family without dischord, but rather thinking and acting as harmonious chord.

Owning "Jones" Construction, they are all "Boss" (like "God") over their employees.

In fact the Father "Jones" can be "with" Son "Jones" Jr at a construction site, and an employee come up to them two, and say "Boss", and both would respond together, because "Boss" (Son) was with the "Boss" (Father) at that moment, thus in John 1:1 "God" was "with" "God".

Even in maths, this works, because of something called "set theory".

Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Set Deity)

Angels, mankind & lesser creatures (Set creation)

Set Deity is Head over Set creation. Yet Set Deity is not a single Person/Being, but a group, as all individuals together which are creation is not a single person/being but a group.

Yet, in (Set Deity) as (Head) are three Persons/Beings which individually or together are "Head" over creation.

Yet in (Set Deity) there is also heirarchy (Gen. 41:40).

Set Father

Set Son

Set Holy Spirit.

Now for "only true God" and "only begotten":

Mono

Gene

Mono is simply "one", "only".

Mono is used in conjunction or connection, gene.

Gene refers to race or nature (that which makes up the content of essence), that which comes about or exists through/from another.

It's used this way even coming down to our English:

"gene (n.) 1911, from German Gen, coined 1905 by Danish scientist Wilhelm Ludvig Johannsen (1857-1927), from Greek genea "generation, race" (from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget"). De Vries had earlier called them pangenes. Gene pool is attested from 1946." - https://www.etymonline.com/word/Gene

That is why the Father is called:

monon alethinon theon, ton theon

And because the Son is in the express image of the Father, is called:

monogene, logos en o theos

The Father's nature is His own, underived ("true"*), but the Son, because He is the Son has that same nature because of the Father.

True - https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/true

Authentic - https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/authentic

Original - https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/original

It means underived.

So monogene in connection with monon alethinon theon means that the nature of the Son is of the Father and he is the only Son of the Father with that nature of the Father.

Created Angels and humans are sons, but not of that same nature as the Father and Son are.

In other words:

The Father is "The only true (underived in nature) God"

The Son is "The only begotten (derives His nature from the Father because He is the Son) God"

Remember, "only begotten" has nothing to do with time, or creation, or coming into existence in these contexts, but and only deals with the existing nature of the Son in relation to the Father.

I know what people think when I say that, but they need to understand the definition of what is said by saying it.

Another thing that needs to be discussed that shows the error of the Catholic "trinity" is the following:

The Father is not a perfume, not an aethereal essence pervading the universe. That is pantheism, or panentheism, both of which are gross heresies and destroys the Gospel itself and would even place God in the sinner, including satan himself, which is a violation of Revelation 3:20, etc. God is omnipresent through omniscience (Psalms 139).

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

He, the Father, is a "Person", even His person (Job 13:8; Hebrews 1:3), of which Jesus (the Son) is the "express image" of.

As for the rest, see "His person" (Job 13:8); "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), "shape" (John 5:37), "image" (Genesis 1:26,27; Hebrews 1:3), "likeness" (Genesis 1:26,27), "being" (Acts 17:28), has a very real movable "Throne" on which He sits (Daniel 7:9-10; Revelation 4-5, &c), has "the hair of his head like the pure wool" (Daniel 7:9), "whose garment was white as snow" (Daniel 7:9), has a "right hand" (Revelation 5:1; Acts 7:55-56), able to be looked upon, "to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Revelation 4:2), having His own "nature" (Galatians 4:8).

God has hairs on His head, Daniel 7:9; and has hands, Exodus 33:22; and has feet, Exodus 24:10; and loins [H4975; waist to upper thighs, see 1 Kings 18:46, etc], Ezekiel 1:27; a face, Matthew 18:10; a heart, Genesis 6:6; parts, Exodus 22:32; a form, Philippians 2:6; shape, John 5:37; is a Person, Hebrews 1:3; is a Soul, Jeremiah 5:9; and is a Spirit, thus has a mind, Matthew 12:28.

See also "back parts" (Exodus 33:23), and even a "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4), see also "under his feet" (Exodus 24:10).

The angels are also called 'spirits' and "persons" ("fellows"; Hebrews 1:9), "young man" (Mark 16:5; Daniel 9:21; &c), and yet have real celestial (Heavenly) "bodies" with unfallen angelic "flesh" (1 Corinthians 15:35-58; Jude 1:7, Genesis 17-19, &c) an unfallen heavenly "nature" (Hebrews 2:16), where as we have bodies terrestrial (dust).

The Son is also a "person" (Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10; Matthew 27:24; Deuteronomy 27:25; &c).

So is the Holy Ghost (John 14:16; &c)

Mankind are also called 'spirits' (1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:23) and yet are real tangible beings, with bodies (made of dust).

Philippians 2:6; Daniel 3:25; Genesis 18:4, 19:2; Exodus 24:10-11; Psalms 18:9; John 5:37; Exodus 33:23,20,22; Daniel 7:9-10,13; Ezekiel 1:1,8,26-28; Acts 7:55-56; Psalms 24:1-10; John 20:17; 1 Peter 3:22; Matthew 18:10; Revelation 1:13-20, 2:1, 4:1-11, 5:1-14; Hebrews 1:13; Colossians 1:3-6; Numbers 12:8; Isaiah 45:23, 48:3; Revelation 3:16; Psalms 89:34; Psalms 104:33, 146:2; Acts 17:28; Genesis 1:26-27; Colossians 1:15; &c.

 

[ChristianSubMissionary]

When Jesus prayed to the Father, was He praying to Himself?

Now, here is the Roman Catholic 'trinity' definition, never found in scripture, and is a pagan, gross distortion to the truth of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost as found in scripture (KJB).

To begin with, "trinitarianism" (like its twin, "unitarianism") teaches a 'singularity':

Roman Catholic “trinity”, which is nothing of the sort, but a counterfeit, in effect a singularity:

Online Roman Catholic Library; Credo of the People of God; Promulgated by Pope Paul VI on June 30, 1968 - CATHOLIC LIBRARY: The Credo of the People of God (1968)

“We believe then in the Father who eternally begets the Son, in the Son, the Word of God, who is eternally begotten; in the Holy Spirit, the uncreated Person who proceeds from the Father and the Son as their eternal love. Thus in the Three Divine Persons, coaeternae sibi et coaequales,[8] the life and beatitude of God perfectly one superabound and are consummated in the supreme excellence and glory proper to uncreated being, and always "there should be venerated unity in the Trinity and Trinity in the unity."[9]”

Online Roman Catholic Encyclopedia, Holy Spirit; sections throughout - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Holy Ghost

“... that the Paraclete "is not to be considered as unconnected with the Father and the Son, for He is with Them one in substance and divinity"...

... Proceeding both from the Father and the Son, the Holy Ghost, nevertheless, proceeds from Them as from a single principle. ... Hence it follows, indeed, that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the two other Persons, not in so far as They are distinct, but inasmuch as Their Divine perfection is numerically one. Besides, such is the explicit teaching of ecclesiastical tradition, which is concisely put by St. Augustine (On the Holy Trinity V.14): "As the Father and the Son are only one God and, relatively to the creature, only one Creator and one Lord, so, relatively to the Holy Ghost, They are only one principle." This doctrine was definded in the following words by the Second Ecumenical Council of Lyons [Denzinger, "Enchiridion" (1908), n. 460]: "We confess that the Holy Ghost proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son, not as from two principles, but as from one principle, not by two spirations, but by one single spiration." The teaching was again laid down by the Council of Florence (ibid., n. 691), and by Eugene IV in his Bull "Cantate Domino" (ibid., n. 703 sq.). ...

..."the Holy Ghost comes from the Father and from the Son not made, not created, not generated, but proceeding" ...”

The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV by Pope Eugene IV - The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV

“The sacrosanct Roman Church, founded by the voice of our Lord and Savior, firmly believes, professes, and preaches one true God omnipotent, unchangeable, and eternal, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; one in essence, three in persons; Father unborn, Son born of the Father, Holy Spirit proceeding from Father and Son; that the Father is not Son or Holy Spirit, that Son is not Father or Holy Spirit; that Holy Spirit is not Father or Son; but Father alone is Father, Son alone is Son, Holy Spirit alone is Holy Spirit. The Father alone begot the Son of His own substance; the Son alone was begotten of the Father alone; the Holy Spirit alone proceeds at the same time from the Father and Son.

These three persons are one God, and not three gods, because the three have one substance, one essence, one nature, one divinity, one immensity, one eternity, where no opposition of relationship interferes.

“Because of this unity the Father is entire in the Son, entire in the Holy Spirit; the Son is entire in the Father, entire in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is entire in the Father, entire in the Son. No one either excels another in eternity, or exceeds in magnitude, or is superior in power. For the fact that the Son is of the Father is eternal and without beginning; and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son is eternal and without beginning.” Whatever the Father is or has, He does not have from another, but from Himself; and He is the principle without principle. Whatever the Son is or has, He has from the Father, and is the principle from a principle. Whatever the Holy Spirit is or has, He has simultaneously from the Father and the Son. But the Father and the Son are not two principles of the Holy Spirit, but one principle, just as the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of the creature, but one principle. ...”

Therein is the error, among other things. Romanism's "trinity" also denies the body/form of the Father, though scripture teaches that the Father has body/form. It also says that the Holy Spirit is of the same ("one in") "substance", but scripture never says this. The nature of the Holy Ghost is a mystery never revealed (and I do not refer to His Personhood or Being). The Bible (KJB) teaches the eternal Heavenly Trio, and could never be represented by that pagan symbol. It reduces the majesty of JEHOVAH Elohiym to a mere man-created and misrepresentative thing.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

No. He said and did everything the Father desired Him to say and do, and it was all said
and done for our benefit. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

So what you are saying is that the Father's wishes are obeyed by Jesus. I agree. That is why Christ sits on the Father's right hand. The Father communicates His will through His Holy Spirit which also gives power, knowledge, understanding, and a conduit for the Father to speak through the mouth of the recipient as well as converse with him. The recipient is called a prophet of God and Jesus was full of the Father's Spirit.
John 14: 7-12 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also; and from henceforth ye know Him, and have seen Him. Philip saith unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been such a long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself; but the Father, that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me for the very works sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do, because I go unto my Father.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When Jesus prayed to the Father, was He praying to Himself?

Why ask absurd questions? Do you know the difference between God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit? And even though they are three distinct persons, there is only one God. So yes, Jesus was indeed praying to the Father. At the same time the Father calls Jesus "GOD" (THEOS).

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Why ask absurd questions?

Titus 3:2-3, 9-11 NLT - "They must not slander anyone and must avoid quarreling. Instead, they should be gentle and show true humility to everyone. 3 Once we, too, were foolish and disobedient. We were misled and became slaves to many lusts and pleasures. Our lives were full of evil and envy, and we hated each other. ... 9 Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These things are useless and a waste of time. 10 If people are causing divisions among you, give a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with them. 11 For people like that have turned away from the truth, and their own sins condemn them."

 

[posthuman]

That is why Christ sits on the Father's right hand.

interested to know your thoughts about the reconciliation of these two facts:

• The Son of Man sits at the right hand of the Father ((Luke 22:69))
• the throne of God is the throne of the Lamb ((Revelation 22:3))

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Years ago I asked God how we are made, and the reply I got back was, "let us make man in our image, after our likeness",.
So the next logical question I asked, with the understanding that it would relate to how we are made was, 'how are you made?' Speaking to God.
I didn't get a direct answer but my thoughts immediately went to God being a triune being. So I surmised that we, like God, are a triune being as well.
And Jesus praying or talking to the father is not the same as you talking to yourself. However, as God is three beings in one, there are three living beings in each of us, making us one being or person as well. With each being or entity having a mind, thoughts, intentions, purposes, and a will of its own, even as Jesus had, and still has a mind, thoughts, intentions, purposes, and a will of his own, separate from the Father's.
God also told me we are made like the temple written in the Bible, for we are the Temple of the holy Ghost.
So I started looking at how the temple was made as well.
The temple had an outer Court, and intercourt, the holy place, and the most holy place or holiest of all.
And like a temple we have an outer body, and an inner body, and within that inner body there is another building or being divided into two part, with a veil dividing the two parts within that one spirit being, or man. One part you had when you were born, and the other part came into being when you were born again, which has the new man in it. The other part has the old man in it.
Notice how the Bible calls these Spirit beings, which are a part of you, men. They think, hear, see, and speak, even as you do.
Then the Bible talks about the hidden man, the heart. 1 Peter 3:4
The heart would be like the inner Court of the Temple, while the outer Court would be the physical or natural body.
But just like your spirit man is a man, so also is the heart, a man.
Paul said, I pray your whole Spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless,.. etc.
And also in Hebrews it is written, "..., Piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and Spirit, and of the joints in Marrow and it is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. "
To put it simply, we are three beings living in one body making up one person.
It's interesting to note, how the soul experiences what the physical body goes through on Earth, until that body dies, then when it is in the spirit world, it experiences what the spirit body goes through.
So the soul is basically you, or rather, the conscious you. It is like the God the Father.
Now what happens when you are asleep, no longer conscious, or when you say or do things subconsciously, or without thought? Have you ever said or thought to yourself, why did I ever say or do those things, as though you had no control over what you said or did? Who or what caused you to react without thought to a situation or a person? The Bible shows that it was the hidden man, or rather the heart of man that caused the person to say or do that thing without thought.
That hidden man, what the Bible refers to as the heart of man, is like the hidden place of God, which would be Jesus.
And by the way, if you concentrate and listen, you can actually hear your heart speak to you. You can even quote the thought that comes to your mind, which is actually a voice you are hearing.
And the spirit man is basically like the Spirit of God, and within that man, there are varying spirit beings with specific abilities, that control all your abilities and inabilities, your likes and dislikes, what you think and don't think, and so on.
For example, a prophet prophesies by the spirit that is in him or her, and without said spirit being, they would not be able to prophesy, because that spirit gave them that ability to do so.
That spirit would be within your new man which would be in your spirit man. Basically it is a spirit man within a spirit man.
If you've ever had a knowing or premonition, it was a spirit that revealed it to you.
So if you look at how we are made and operate, it's not only comprehendible to understand how God can be three persons in one being, if I can put it that way, but it is very easy to not only comprehend, but both see and understand how God can be three yet one God.

Have you ever said or thought to yourself, why did I ever say or do those things, as though you had no control over what you said or did? Who or what caused you to react without thought to a situation or a person?

I remember when I was about 10 years old how I snapped at my mom for no reason. It bothered me that I reacted that way until I realized that chemical reactions in our bodies influence our mood. I recall the physical agitation I felt inside of me before I snapped and wondering why it happened after.
God is a spirit with a mind and a heart. Our bodies are temples for our spirit with a mind and a heart. Our bodies are also temples for other spirits as in being possessed or filled with the Holy Spirit of God. Our world is

interested to know your thoughts about the reconciliation of these two facts:

• The Son of Man sits at the right hand of the Father ((Luke 22:69))
• the throne of God is the throne of the Lamb ((Revelation 22:3))

 

[CorrectiveLens]

interested to know your thoughts about the reconciliation of these two facts:

• The Son of Man sits at the right hand of the Father ((Luke 22:69))
• the throne of God is the throne of the Lamb ((Revelation 22:3))

Please give me some more time. I want to make sure that everything I say is accompanied with scripture. Thanks.

 

[Athanasius377]

No. "Trinity" as currently defined by most is the false Roman Catholic heresy. There is an eternal Heavenly Trio. May this help you:

JEHOVAH Elohiym is the eternal family/relationship. JEHOVAH is the singular eternal family name, while Elohiym (Gods, trio) are the individual Persons/Beings that exist in that eternal family/relationship, Matt. 28:19; 1 Jhn. 5:7,8.

1. JEHOVAH, "the LORD" (Gen. 19:24b.; Zec. 3:2b.), "the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:9,13,22) is "the only true God" (Jhn. 17:3; τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν), "God" (Jhn. 1:1b.; τὸν θεόν), "thy God" (Heb. 1:9; ὁ θεός σου), "God the Father" (2 Jhn. 1:3; θεοῦ πατρός) the "person" (Job 13:8; Heb. 1:3) identified in the beginning as the "God said" (Gen. 1:6), for it was by Him that Revelation says, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (Rev. 4:11).

2. Jesus JEHOVAH (Gen.49:18; Exo. 14:13; 2 Chr. 20:17; Jon. 2:9; Psa. 119:174 HOT) or JEHOVAH Immanuel (see Psa. 46:7,11 HOT)), "the LORD" (Gen. 19:24a.; Zec. 3:2a.), "the son of man" (Dan. 7:13), "the only begotten" (Jhn. 1:14,18, 3:16,18; Heb. 11:17; 1 Jhn. 4:9, is basically monogene (μονογενῆ; Jhn. 3:16; Heb. 11:17; 1 Jhn. 4:9) or monogenes (μονογενὴς; Jhn. 1:18) or monogenous (μονογενοῦς; Jhn. 1:14, 3:18)), "the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father" (2 Jhn. 1:3; Κυρίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ πατρός) is not "the only true God" (Jhn. 17:3), but is "the express image of his person" (Heb. 1:3; χαρακτὴρ τῆς ὑποστάσεως αὐτοῦ), being "the Word was God" (Jhn. 1:1c.; θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος), who is "O God" (Heb. 1:9; ὁ θεός), the "just person" (Matt. 27:24, "person", 2 Cor. 2:10) indentified in the beginning as "God made" (Gen. 1:7) on behalf of the Father's direction (Pro. 8:22-36; Exo. 20:12), for it was by him (the Son) that John says, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (Jhn. 1:3), that Ephesians says, "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:" (Eph. 3:9), that Colossians says, "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" (Col. 1:16), that Hebrews says, "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" (Heb. 1:2), the very, "I AM THAT I AM" (Exo. 3:14), the great "I am" (Jhn. 8:58; ἐγὼ εἰμί), the very "fellow" (Zec. 13:7) of the Father's person, and who comes in the name of His Father (Jhn. 5:43).

3. The Holy Spirit of JEHOVAH (Luk. 4:18), "his Spirit" (Isa. 48:16), "the LORD" (Zec. 3:2c.), the "another Comforter" (Jhn. 14:6), even "he", "the spirit of truth" (Jhn. 14:17, 15:26, 16:13), "God" (Acts 5:4), identified in the beginning as "the Spirit of God moved" (Gen. 1:2) and "God saw" (Gen. 1 throughout, the eternal Witness who inspired the scriptures; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21), by which/whom everything is "created" (Psa. 104:30) and "made" (Job 33:4), whose nature is a mystery left unspoken of in scripture, but is the person who does "not speak of himself" (Jhn. 16:13), but comes in the name of the Son (Jhn. 14:26).

The eternal Heavenly Trio - family JEHOVAH Elohiym, over all creation as "Godhead".

If I were to try to present this idea in a limited humanistic fashion, it might go something like this:

Father Jones

Son Jones Jr.

Cousin Jones.

The trio "Jones", or "Jones" family.

Three Persons/Beings working together as united family without dischord, but rather thinking and acting as harmonious chord.

Owning "Jones" Construction, they are all "Boss" (like "God") over their employees.

In fact the Father "Jones" can be "with" Son "Jones" Jr at a construction site, and an employee come up to them two, and say "Boss", and both would respond together, because "Boss" (Son) was with the "Boss" (Father) at that moment, thus in John 1:1 "God" was "with" "God".

Even in maths, this works, because of something called "set theory".

Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Set Deity)

Angels, mankind & lesser creatures (Set creation)

Set Deity is Head over Set creation. Yet Set Deity is not a single Person/Being, but a group, as all individuals together which are creation is not a single person/being but a group.

Yet, in (Set Deity) as (Head) are three Persons/Beings which individually or together are "Head" over creation.

Yet in (Set Deity) there is also heirarchy (Gen. 41:40).

Set Father

Set Son

Set Holy Spirit.

Now for "only true God" and "only begotten":

Mono

Gene

Mono is simply "one", "only".

Mono is used in conjunction or connection, gene.

Gene refers to race or nature (that which makes up the content of essence), that which comes about or exists through/from another.

It's used this way even coming down to our English:

"gene (n.) 1911, from German Gen, coined 1905 by Danish scientist Wilhelm Ludvig Johannsen (1857-1927), from Greek genea "generation, race" (from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget"). De Vries had earlier called them pangenes. Gene pool is attested from 1946." - https://www.etymonline.com/word/Gene

That is why the Father is called:

monon alethinon theon, ton theon

And because the Son is in the express image of the Father, is called:

monogene, logos en o theos

The Father's nature is His own, underived ("true"*), but the Son, because He is the Son has that same nature because of the Father.

True - https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/true

Authentic - https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/authentic

Original - https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/original

It means underived.

So monogene in connection with monon alethinon theon means that the nature of the Son is of the Father and he is the only Son of the Father with that nature of the Father.

Created Angels and humans are sons, but not of that same nature as the Father and Son are.

In other words:

The Father is "The only true (underived in nature) God"

The Son is "The only begotten (derives His nature from the Father because He is the Son) God"

Remember, "only begotten" has nothing to do with time, or creation, or coming into existence in these contexts, but and only deals with the existing nature of the Son in relation to the Father.

I know what people think when I say that, but they need to understand the definition of what is said by saying it.

Another thing that needs to be discussed that shows the error of the Catholic "trinity" is the following:

The Father is not a perfume, not an aethereal essence pervading the universe. That is pantheism, or panentheism, both of which are gross heresies and destroys the Gospel itself and would even place God in the sinner, including satan himself, which is a violation of Revelation 3:20, etc. God is omnipresent through omniscience (Psalms 139).

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

He, the Father, is a "Person", even His person (Job 13:8; Hebrews 1:3), of which Jesus (the Son) is the "express image" of.

As for the rest, see "His person" (Job 13:8); "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), "shape" (John 5:37), "image" (Genesis 1:26,27; Hebrews 1:3), "likeness" (Genesis 1:26,27), "being" (Acts 17:28), has a very real movable "Throne" on which He sits (Daniel 7:9-10; Revelation 4-5, &c), has "the hair of his head like the pure wool" (Daniel 7:9), "whose garment was white as snow" (Daniel 7:9), has a "right hand" (Revelation 5:1; Acts 7:55-56), able to be looked upon, "to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Revelation 4:2), having His own "nature" (Galatians 4:8).

God has hairs on His head, Daniel 7:9; and has hands, Exodus 33:22; and has feet, Exodus 24:10; and loins [H4975; waist to upper thighs, see 1 Kings 18:46, etc], Ezekiel 1:27; a face, Matthew 18:10; a heart, Genesis 6:6; parts, Exodus 22:32; a form, Philippians 2:6; shape, John 5:37; is a Person, Hebrews 1:3; is a Soul, Jeremiah 5:9; and is a Spirit, thus has a mind, Matthew 12:28.

See also "back parts" (Exodus 33:23), and even a "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4), see also "under his feet" (Exodus 24:10).

The angels are also called 'spirits' and "persons" ("fellows"; Hebrews 1:9), "young man" (Mark 16:5; Daniel 9:21; &c), and yet have real celestial (Heavenly) "bodies" with unfallen angelic "flesh" (1 Corinthians 15:35-58; Jude 1:7, Genesis 17-19, &c) an unfallen heavenly "nature" (Hebrews 2:16), where as we have bodies terrestrial (dust).

The Son is also a "person" (Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10; Matthew 27:24; Deuteronomy 27:25; &c).

So is the Holy Ghost (John 14:16; &c)

Mankind are also called 'spirits' (1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:23) and yet are real tangible beings, with bodies (made of dust).

Philippians 2:6; Daniel 3:25; Genesis 18:4, 19:2; Exodus 24:10-11; Psalms 18:9; John 5:37; Exodus 33:23,20,22; Daniel 7:9-10,13; Ezekiel 1:1,8,26-28; Acts 7:55-56; Psalms 24:1-10; John 20:17; 1 Peter 3:22; Matthew 18:10; Revelation 1:13-20, 2:1, 4:1-11, 5:1-14; Hebrews 1:13; Colossians 1:3-6; Numbers 12:8; Isaiah 45:23, 48:3; Revelation 3:16; Psalms 89:34; Psalms 104:33, 146:2; Acts 17:28; Genesis 1:26-27; Colossians 1:15; &c.

Look kids, tritheism

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

[Jhn 8:58 NKJV] 58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

The all caps on "I AM" is a straight copy and paste from the Blue Letter Bible. I'm assuming that Jesus is referring to Himself as the great "I AM." And since Jesus wasn't walking the planet, at least not in His Christ form, this too implies that He is the Almighty God of all.

I'm not suggesting that it is easy to understand, nonetheless, these ARE the concepts and principles of our unbelievable Bible. And, I won't deny them.

 

[Athanasius377]

You can find this version just about anywhere on the internet. An oldie but a goodie. The word catholic means "universal", not Roman.

The Nicene Creed
We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13) In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

 

[Dan58]

St Patrick used the clover (Shamrock) to illustrate the trinity, 3 leaves but all aspects of a single plant (Godhead)

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. " (1 John 5:7)

 

[jb]

When Jesus prayed to the Father, was He praying to Himself?

No, He was not praying to Himself, He was praying to His (and our) Heavenly Father!

 

[jb]

Jesus the God-Man was praying to Himself...

No, He most definitely wasn't, He was praying to His Heavenly Father!

 

[JStates]

No, He most definitely wasn't, He was praying to His Heavenly Father!

Yes.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

No, He most definitely wasn't, He was praying to His Heavenly Father!

Is Jesus God, or [a] God?

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Please give me some more time. I want to make sure that everything I say is accompanied with scripture. Thanks.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Please let me know If you are not able to view my response. I'll try a different method if not.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Maybe this will be better

A. The largest rectangle represents:
1. The Family of God the Father in heaven
2. The Holy Spirit of the Father
3. The Father of Christ
4. God almighty
5. God of all ( including Jesus Christ)
6. Those that are Baptized in the Father's name
7. Supreme Ruler
8. Lord of all
9. Kingdom of the Father
B. The second largest rectangle represents:
1. The first and only creation of the Father
2. The Son
3. The Christ
4. Jesus
5. The Body of Christ
6. The Spirit of Christ
7. Our Lord
8. Our Savior
9. Our God
10. The Right Hand of the Father
11. Jehovah
12. Those Baptized in the Son's name
13. The Holy One of Israel
14. The tabernacle of God
15. The kingdom of the Son
16. The Word
C. The smallest rectangle represents:
1. The Church of Christ
2. The Bride of Christ
3. The spirits of those humans who in their lifetime repented of their
sins, trusted and believed in God's plan for their salvation.
4. The elect
5. Those chosen
6. The saints
7. Those baptized in the Name of the Father
8. Those baptized in the Name of the Son
9. Those that are filled with the Spirit of the Father and Son
10. Those that obey the Spirit of the Law and are filled with God-
given love to accomplish this obedience
11. Those who worship both Father and Son in Spirit and in Truth