TONGUES TODAY

[PaulChristensen]

The people who are arguing to be able to speak in tongues, and heal people do so because of Mark 16 and the Geat Commission.

SIGN GIFTS are only mentioned in Mark 16:14- 17.........
"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe.

The SIN GIFTS which included speaking in tongues was given ONLY to the ELEVEN APOSTLES.

Poppycock! And I mean that respectfully as a friend.
Paul spoke in tongues more than all the Corinthian believers and he was not one of the original eleven. Also the 120 in the upper room on the day of Pentecostal all spoke in tongues, including, by the way, the Virgin Mary. Also, most of the Corinthian believers spoke in tongues, hence the reason why Paul gave instructions on how to speak it correctly and in the right place.

The gifts of the Spirit were given to all believers in the Body of Christ so that all may profit. That's what my New Testament says. Paul wrote that well after the Day of Pentecost and he wrote it for all the Gentile churches. He told the Romans that they should prophesy according to the level of their faith.

Just taking one reference at random and ignoring all the others just results in a gobbledygook doctrine that doesn't reflect New Testament teaching at all.

 

[PaulChristensen]

All of those who believ in speaking in tongues and miracle healings done by a man will tell you that you are wrong.

"I" will however tell you that your are correct.

I received the gift of tongues when I was sitting in my bedroom and asked for it. In fact I had been pleading for it for the last couple of weeks. While I was sitting there cool, calm and collected, the Holy Spirit said to me, "Why are you begging and pleading for something I gave you 2000 years ago? Stop the stupidity and just receive it!" So I said, "Lord, I receive the gift of tongues right now." At that point when I stepped out in faith and started speaking I found I was speaking a language I had never learned.

I have being praying in tongues, outside of any church, for the last 53 years. I have never been impelled by heightened or hyped up emotion to pray in tongues. For me, it is the same as my typing this post. I am sitting on my sofa, just having finished lunch, with my cup of tea beside me, not feeling any emotion at all, except having a bit of a giggle about people saying that tongues can only come through being hyped up in church.

In fact, instead of typing in English, I could quite as easily type in tongues. What's the difference? Except if I typed something in tongues I would have to give the interpretation. That's what Paul instructs. But I wouldn't type out tongues just to demonstrate that I can, because that would be a misuse of a sacred and holy gift that is part of personal prayer to God, and I never disclose to anyone what I actually say to God in my private prayer times. Some people might be shocked by some of the things I say to God because it would upset their delicate religious sensibilities.

The point I am making is that your belief that tongues comes from hyped up emotions fuelled by shouting preachers and groups around someone yelling "hold on" and others yelling "let go", is totally wrong. Of course there is the lunatic fringe who do that sort of thing, but they are not true Charismatics. They are pseudo-christians who have hijacked the Charismatic label.

The most precious times when I have known the presence of God in my life have been well away from any church. I first sensed His presence in the middle of a golf course on a very cool April evening at 11pm in 1969. It changed my life, and I didn't feel any emotion at all. I just knew that Jesus was real, and He was so real, I wouldn't have been surprise if He had stepped out from behind one of the trees and said, "Hi Paul!" He told me that 90% of the Christian walk consists of being just normal with no highs or lows, and every now and again there is joy in His presence. The next time I strongly felt His presence when I was grieving concerning a very sad time of my life and it was as if Jesus came and put His hand on my shoulder and said, "I am your refuge and strength. A very present help in time of trouble". I certainly was not on an emotional high at that time. Actually I was as emotional low as one could get!

The next time was when I was walking along a long, wide beach beside the sea. I had just received a nasty letter from a family member criticising me. I held the letter up to the Lord and said, "Lord look at this and help me." I walked along in prayer and thought of the crucifixion where Jesus died for me, then I thought of the resurrection of Christ, then His ascension to the Father. I then looked out over the sea and received a very vivid minds-eye picture of Jesus sitting on the throne of victory above the waves of the sea. He said, "You are sitting with Me above the crashing waves of your circumstances". It was then I got the joy, and ran down the beach, leaping and shouting, "Yahooo!" If you think that was hyped up emotion, then you can similarly criticise the lame man who after being healed by Peter and John, went walking and leaping and praising God, because I did exactly that when I realised that I was sitting with Jesus on the throne of victory!

All these happened right away from any church, because my faith is in Christ alone, and not in the teaching of any church. If a church gives Christ-centred teaching and practice then I enjoy the services, otherwise I get my spiritual input directly from the Lord through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[PaulChristensen]

I would say that almost all of it is an exercise in religious fervor and manipulation.
Funny how it always happens in mega churches when the 'pastor' has their hand touching the person's head or is whipping the crowd into hysterics.

Anyone going to tell me I am wrong?

I have a friend whose parents attended a Pentecostal church in Kenya. He has clear memories of that church and the events that happened in it. He described bush men who had never had contact with Europeans before, coming into the church, getting saved, baptised with the Spirit, and then praising God in pure unaccented Oxford English, a language they had never learned. He told me that he knew when an African was speaking learned English because it was always with a distinct African accent. There were English syllables that they could not pronounce. But he knew that the English that these bushmen spoke when they spoke in tongues was not learned English at all, because that distinct African accent was totally missing and they spoke totally pure "Queen's" English, a purity of English no African could every speak, especially bushmen who had previously no contact with Europeans as they men were.

Also, Kenyan churches in the 1950s-60s were not mega-churches. Often the buildings were just simple buildings often with just a roof to keep out the rain, and no hyping up of emotion was used. My friend said that Pentecostal churches in Kenya, Africa, were nothing like western Pentecostal churches. In fact, he said that the African ones were superior in Christ-centredness and genuine faith.

Now, please explain how that could not be a genuine gift of tongues, as the tongues spoken in the Kenyan church had no similarity to the tongues you are describing

And the tongues I received in my bedroom on a sunny afternoon, and what I pray in my personal prayer times with God, are certainly not the hyped up tongues you are describing that happens in mega churches.

 

[Absolutely]

I have a friend whose parents attended a Pentecostal church in Kenya. He has clear memories of that church and the events that happened in it. He described bush men who had never had contact with Europeans before, coming into the church, getting saved, baptised with the Spirit, and then praising God in pure unaccented Oxford English, a language they had never learned. He told me that he knew when an African was speaking learned English because it was always with a distinct African accent. There were English syllables that they could not pronounce. But he knew that the English that these bushmen spoke when they spoke in tongues was not learned English at all, because that distinct African accent was totally missing and they spoke totally pure "Queen's" English, a purity of English no African could every speak, especially bushmen who had previously no contact with Europeans as they men were.

Also, Kenyan churches in the 1950s-60s were not mega-churches. Often the buildings were just simple buildings often with just a roof to keep out the rain, and no hyping up of emotion was used. My friend said that Pentecostal churches in Kenya, Africa, were nothing like western Pentecostal churches. In fact, he said that the African ones were superior in Christ-centredness and genuine faith.

Now, please explain how that could not be a genuine gift of tongues, as the tongues spoken in the Kenyan church had no similarity to the tongues you are describing

And the tongues I received in my bedroom on a sunny afternoon, and what I pray in my personal prayer times with God, are certainly not the hyped up tongues you are describing that happens in mega churches.

Yes
Many years ago while in prayer one night i was praying in tongues and was tremendously moved upon by the spirit.
I was conscious that my prayers were taking on an oriental sounding language.
It was long ago but i still remember it.

I would venture to say that in some instances a believer could be praying in another country (perhaps asian) and the Holy Spirit has a believer across the globe ,already in the spirit, in prayer, praying in tongues, thst has no clue, be the avenue of that mans escape from something life threatening or some healing or escape.

Supernatural deliverance.

My God is a God of power.

 

[Absolutely]

Just as i thought......No Scripture offered.

Do you read the NT?

You really need a verse on the devil attacking believers?

It is IMPOSSIBLE to miss.

Literally impossible.

Ahem....what do you think the armor of God is for???????

 

[CS1]

I kind of inferred that because I don't know that I believe in "faith healing," for instance. Certainly not reviving the dead. Modern medicine is wondrous, but even it can't resurrect the dead. But, I don't know why unless it's part of the plan to remove objective evidence of God's power so people will continue to slide into unbelief.

Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Matt 13:58

Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.



When I hear someone say " Certainly not reviving the dead." Does that include the person who is having chest compressions and shocked until their heart starts beating again? Or just not heart stop dead, or clinically dead or anything within 3 mins?

I can ensure you that no man or doctor or machine will stop the appointed time to die. You and I will make that day when God says your done.

Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,


We watch fools on tv and Youtube creating fake healings and that must be the 100% reality that God does not heal " because I have not seen it"

Or you have the other type who is mad at God because They " Prayed" for a love who died believing they would be healed and were not.

The Issues is not the issue it is not that one doesn't believe in healings done by faith in God but more of Those who claim to be

" Faith Healers" a term given by the media like tela-evangelist.

God does heal today and yes Even if you don't believe it God has raised people from the dead every single day.

If you think a machine is keeping one alive, or that those who have had massive heart attacks and received shock were brought back to life because of that I can ensure you every day someone is not. But many professing Christian belief that the " Doctor " brought them back even say that without thinking have placed faith in doctors.


In the same manner, if a pastor prays for one who has had a heart attack and their heart stopped beating those same "Christians"

he was only out for 2min's he was not dead. We are all one heartbeat from Heaven or Hell. And God has an appointed day for all.

No doctor, the machine will prevent that day.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Heb 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Matt 13:58

Now He did not do many mighty works there because of their unbelief.



When I hear someone say " Certainly not reviving the dead." Does that include the person who is having chest compressions and shocked until their heart starts beating again? Or just not heart stop dead, or clinically dead or anything within 3 mins?

I can ensure you that no man or doctor or machine will stop the appointed time to die. You and I will make that day when God says your done.

Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,


We watch fools on tv and Youtube creating fake healings and that must be the 100% reality that God does not heal " because I have not seen it"

Or you have the other type who is mad at God because They " Prayed" for a love who died believing they would be healed and were not.

The Issues is not the issue it is not that one doesn't believe in healings done by faith in God but more of Those who claim to be

" Faith Healers" a term given by the media like tela-evangelist.

God does heal today and yes Even if you don't believe it God has raised people from the dead every single day.

If you think a machine is keeping one alive, or that those who have had massive heart attacks and received shock were brought back to life because of that I can ensure you every day someone is not. But many professing Christian belief that the " Doctor " brought them back even say that without thinking have placed faith in doctors.


In the same manner, if a pastor prays for one who has had a heart attack and their heart stopped beating those same "Christians"

he was only out for 2min's he was not dead. We are all one heartbeat from Heaven or Hell. And God has an appointed day for all.

No doctor, the machine will prevent that day.

I pretty much mean dead as in dead as a door nail. Dead and buried maybe 4 days or so. That kind of miraculous resurrection.

But, you can look at the spiritual implications. Healing and resurrecting from the dead could mean in spirit as opposed to physical death. Although when Jesus did it, he performed miracles for the benefit of people to see at the time.

 

[CS1]

I think this was a very well composed and written explanation. Can I tell you what I always thought about Mark 16:15-18? You might disagree because we may have different interpretations of scripture.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Casting out devils: Liberating people from belief and faith in false doctrines. (Converting someone to the faith.)
Speak in new tongues: Understanding and speaking true Bible doctrine.
Verse 18 in general: Taking up serpents and drinking a deadly thing is devil's indoctrination and confronting falsely indoctrinated people will not result in you being swayed away from true Bible doctrine.

Indeed, those are true spiritual gifts that can come from no other source. Discerning of spirits is a tremendous gift of the spirit. It's very real. If it weren't here and dispensed to God's children, they would all be lost.

well please remember the other gospels also say much to support the Mark 16:15-18


Matthew 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.



Luke 24:46-49


46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things. 49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”


Jesus said in Acts 1:8 You shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be my witnesses".

Those words were to the Apostles and I believe are applicable today to every believer which too is tied into the "Great Commission " which is also applied to all Christians everywhere. many disagree. That is ok. They have the right to be wrong

 

[CS1]

I pretty much mean dead as in dead as a door nail. Dead and buried maybe 4 days or so. That kind of miraculous resurrection.

But, you can look at the spiritual implications. Healing and resurrecting from the dead could mean in spirit as opposed to physical death. Although when Jesus did it, he performed miracles for the benefit of people to see at the time.

Well, I have you heard of a guy named Smith Wigglesworth?

There are documented eyewitnesses of him pray for a dead as a doornail man in a funeral parlor. and 13 other people.

now he was an ignorant uneducated man and his methods were very much unorthodox, however, it is said

"
1947, doctors are said to have found that some of the bone on each of Wigglesworth’s knee caps was missing. Later, in his house, others found two indentations, about a foot apart, on the wooden floor of a corner room.

Wigglesworth, it was surmised, had spent a lot of time there knelt in prayer."

December 1934 in Washington, D.C., published in Redemption Tidings:


The reason why God has raised the dead today is the very same reason you mentioned. Do people today any less important to Jesus where HE then as you say " he performed miracles for the benefit of people to see at the time".


There is no benefit today? The Body of Christ has no need for the gospel to be confirmed with signs & wonders? Jesus did then for those because they were more loved than you and I today?
I do not believe that for one second.

Jesus said you and I are to pray for the sick and preach the Gospel which Paul said " Is the Power of God".

God from what we see in the Bible is the God of the miraculous in Both Ols and New Testament. And God has not changed.

Yes there are those who pervert the word of God to enrich themselves known as the Error of Balaam,



What is the Error of Balaam? He loved the riches of the heathen and he used the prophetic to hurt the people of God and told the enemies of Gods people how to bring them down. tried to use a false god to do it and failed which took his life.

Don't be distracted by these tv, youtube types they too shall be judged and I will stay far away from them. I don't have to say every day how they are in error, I am called to preach the truth and The Holy Spirit confirms the true message today in the following way STILL!.

1. salvation
2. addictions broken
3. marriages restored
4. sickness healed
5. provisions given
6. purpose and gifts and talents revealed to people

 

[Major]

Do you read the NT?

You really need a verse on the devil attacking believers?

It is IMPOSSIBLE to miss.

Literally impossible.

Ahem....what do you think the armor of God is for???????

I need to see the Scripture that back up what you say.

You tend to have a lot of opinions but are very short on validation.

Your post here is not focused on things I have said.

YES the devil attacks people.

The whole armor of God is so that the believer can stand against the tricks of the Devil.

But.......what has that got do do with people who can not read and obey the written Word of God which is what I have pointed out.????

 

[Major]

I received the gift of tongues when I was sitting in my bedroom and asked for it. In fact I had been pleading for it for the last couple of weeks. While I was sitting there cool, calm and collected, the Holy Spirit said to me, "Why are you begging and pleading for something I gave you 2000 years ago? Stop the stupidity and just receive it!" So I said, "Lord, I receive the gift of tongues right now." At that point when I stepped out in faith and started speaking I found I was speaking a language I had never learned.

I have being praying in tongues, outside of any church, for the last 53 years. I have never been impelled by heightened or hyped up emotion to pray in tongues. For me, it is the same as my typing this post. I am sitting on my sofa, just having finished lunch, with my cup of tea beside me, not feeling any emotion at all, except having a bit of a giggle about people saying that tongues can only come through being hyped up in church.

In fact, instead of typing in English, I could quite as easily type in tongues. What's the difference? Except if I typed something in tongues I would have to give the interpretation. That's what Paul instructs. But I wouldn't type out tongues just to demonstrate that I can, because that would be a misuse of a sacred and holy gift that is part of personal prayer to God, and I never disclose to anyone what I actually say to God in my private prayer times. Some people might be shocked by some of the things I say to God because it would upset their delicate religious sensibilities.

The point I am making is that your belief that tongues comes from hyped up emotions fuelled by shouting preachers and groups around someone yelling "hold on" and others yelling "let go", is totally wrong. Of course there is the lunatic fringe who do that sort of thing, but they are not true Charismatics. They are pseudo-christians who have hijacked the Charismatic label.

The most precious times when I have known the presence of God in my life have been well away from any church. I first sensed His presence in the middle of a golf course on a very cool April evening at 11pm in 1969. It changed my life, and I didn't feel any emotion at all. I just knew that Jesus was real, and He was so real, I wouldn't have been surprise if He had stepped out from behind one of the trees and said, "Hi Paul!" He told me that 90% of the Christian walk consists of being just normal with no highs or lows, and every now and again there is joy in His presence. The next time I strongly felt His presence when I was grieving concerning a very sad time of my life and it was as if Jesus came and put His hand on my shoulder and said, "I am your refuge and strength. A very present help in time of trouble". I certainly was not on an emotional high at that time. Actually I was as emotional low as one could get!

The next time was when I was walking along a long, wide beach beside the sea. I had just received a nasty letter from a family member criticising me. I held the letter up to the Lord and said, "Lord look at this and help me." I walked along in prayer and thought of the crucifixion where Jesus died for me, then I thought of the resurrection of Christ, then His ascension to the Father. I then looked out over the sea and received a very vivid minds-eye picture of Jesus sitting on the throne of victory above the waves of the sea. He said, "You are sitting with Me above the crashing waves of your circumstances". It was then I got the joy, and ran down the beach, leaping and shouting, "Yahooo!" If you think that was hyped up emotion, then you can similarly criticise the lame man who after being healed by Peter and John, went walking and leaping and praising God, because I did exactly that when I realised that I was sitting with Jesus on the throne of victory!

All these happened right away from any church, because my faith is in Christ alone, and not in the teaching of any church. If a church gives Christ-centred teaching and practice then I enjoy the services, otherwise I get my spiritual input directly from the Lord through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

I have no desire neither will I challenge your personal testimony. To you it is real and who am I to say different.

However I do want to correct what you said when you said................
"The point I am making is that your belief that tongues comes from hyped up emotions fuelled by shouting preachers and groups around someone yelling "hold on" and others yelling "let go", is totally wrong.

No sir, that is incorrect. What I has said and posted is exactly WHAT I HAVE DONE AND OBSERVED.

If you have not seen these things taking place then maybe you have not attended the same church gatherings that I have in the past 50 years or so.

 

[Major]

Poppycock! And I mean that respectfully as a friend.
Paul spoke in tongues more than all the Corinthian believers and he was not one of the original eleven. Also the 120 in the upper room on the day of Pentecostal all spoke in tongues, including, by the way, the Virgin Mary. Also, most of the Corinthian believers spoke in tongues, hence the reason why Paul gave instructions on how to speak it correctly and in the right place.

The gifts of the Spirit were given to all believers in the Body of Christ so that all may profit. That's what my New Testament says. Paul wrote that well after the Day of Pentecost and he wrote it for all the Gentile churches. He told the Romans that they should prophesy according to the level of their faith.

Just taking one reference at random and ignoring all the others just results in a gobbledygook doctrine that doesn't reflect New Testament teaching at all.

Paul was no one of the ELEVEN but I can not believe that you are saying that Paul was not an Apostle. Surely, you are mistaken or have not fully comprend the Scripture.
Judas was not included in the ELEVEN because he was dead and Paul had not yet met with and been commissioned by Jesus so your point is actually MUTE.

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),

Romans 1:1
Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1 Timothy 2:7
For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

I have a really NOVEL idea. Instead of accepting what you just said.......lets actually READ from the Bible WAHT WAS SAID..................
First....CONTEXT is found in Acts 1:12-15.........
"Then returned THEY unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. 13And when THEY were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. 14

"THEY are the same THEM seen in Mark 16:14 and THEY are the ELEVEN who were the APOSTLES!

Verse #14 then goes on to say that......
"These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. 15And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

Now that is the CONTEXT from the literal words of the Scripture.

Then comes Acts 2:1-6:.........
“And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.”

Where do the Scriptures say that MARY spoke in tongues???????
Now WHERE does the Scripture say that all 120 spoke in tongues. ???????

You see......you are simply repeating what your denominational church has told you what to believe!

The Bible says that THEY, the ELEVEN APOSTLES were the ones speaking. Instead of 120 speaking in tongues.......the people there HEARD what was said in their own language!!

READ it for yourself my friend.

Acts 2:11-14.............
"Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. 14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words".

The ONLY way that anyone can not understand this teaching is because they are willing to believe what SOMEONE has told them instead of believing what GOD ACTUALLY SAID.

 

[Major]

I am sure they are close to being spot on.
It really does not mean anything to me since i have no dog in that fight.

Then maybe you should not be supporting the AOG false doctrines that you are doing now.

 

[Major]

I like that word.
Chrisanity.
We need that.

Actually, if you go onto several "Christian" forum sites........you will see more of that than anything else.

It seems to me the anonymity of being able to hide behind a computer screen brings out the worst is some people's behavior.

 

[Major]

I have a friend whose parents attended a Pentecostal church in Kenya. He has clear memories of that church and the events that happened in it. He described bush men who had never had contact with Europeans before, coming into the church, getting saved, baptised with the Spirit, and then praising God in pure unaccented Oxford English, a language they had never learned. He told me that he knew when an African was speaking learned English because it was always with a distinct African accent. There were English syllables that they could not pronounce. But he knew that the English that these bushmen spoke when they spoke in tongues was not learned English at all, because that distinct African accent was totally missing and they spoke totally pure "Queen's" English, a purity of English no African could every speak, especially bushmen who had previously no contact with Europeans as they men were.

Also, Kenyan churches in the 1950s-60s were not mega-churches. Often the buildings were just simple buildings often with just a roof to keep out the rain, and no hyping up of emotion was used. My friend said that Pentecostal churches in Kenya, Africa, were nothing like western Pentecostal churches. In fact, he said that the African ones were superior in Christ-centredness and genuine faith.

Now, please explain how that could not be a genuine gift of tongues, as the tongues spoken in the Kenyan church had no similarity to the tongues you are describing

And the tongues I received in my bedroom on a sunny afternoon, and what I pray in my personal prayer times with God, are certainly not the hyped up tongues you are describing that happens in mega churches.

You do also know that what you described is called......"Hearsay" is not allowed in any court room in the world.

WHY is that.

Because all people have the penchant for "" exaggeration "" so as to make their personal account more exciting and more important.

I also have been to Africa. Several times in fact and to this day give an offering to a Church in Uganda run by my friend Sam K.
We have helped him build several building at his orphanage and church.

I have preached there several times and also seen African people come to Christ and speak in tongues. But those tongues were native languages.....ALWAYS.

 

[Major]

I pretty much mean dead as in dead as a door nail. Dead and buried maybe 4 days or so. That kind of miraculous resurrection.

But, you can look at the spiritual implications. Healing and resurrecting from the dead could mean in spirit as opposed to physical death. Although when Jesus did it, he performed miracles for the benefit of people to see at the time.

Jesus did it to VALIDATE His message that He was the Messiah and had come to His people the Jews.

The APOSTLES were given the same power so as to do the very same thing so that the gospel would be heard and accepted.

 

[Major]

Do you read the NT?

You really need a verse on the devil attacking believers?

It is IMPOSSIBLE to miss.

Literally impossible.

Ahem....what do you think the armor of God is for???????

You seem to be a nice man. Why not try to be more communicative instead of sarcasm.

 

[CS1]

Poppycock! And I mean that respectfully as a friend.
Paul spoke in tongues more than all the Corinthian believers and he was not one of the original eleven. Also the 120 in the upper room on the day of Pentecostal all spoke in tongues, including, by the way, the Virgin Mary. Also, most of the Corinthian believers spoke in tongues, hence the reason why Paul gave instructions on how to speak it correctly and in the right place.

The gifts of the Spirit were given to all believers in the Body of Christ so that all may profit. That's what my New Testament says. Paul wrote that well after the Day of Pentecost and he wrote it for all the Gentile churches. He told the Romans that they should prophesy according to the level of their faith.

Just taking one reference at random and ignoring all the others just results in a gobbledygook doctrine that doesn't reflect New Testament teaching at all.

Yes amen, I find it funny how people suggest you said Paul was not an Apostle. You said, "he was not one of the original eleven."

That is true and Paul even said that In 1cor chapter 15

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Well, I have you heard of a guy named Smith Wigglesworth?

There are documented eyewitnesses of him pray for a dead as a doornail man in a funeral parlor. and 13 other people.

now he was an ignorant uneducated man and his methods were very much unorthodox, however, it is said

"
1947, doctors are said to have found that some of the bone on each of Wigglesworth’s knee caps was missing. Later, in his house, others found two indentations, about a foot apart, on the wooden floor of a corner room.

Wigglesworth, it was surmised, had spent a lot of time there knelt in prayer."

December 1934 in Washington, D.C., published in Redemption Tidings:


The reason why God has raised the dead today is the very same reason you mentioned. Do people today any less important to Jesus where HE then as you say " he performed miracles for the benefit of people to see at the time".


There is no benefit today? The Body of Christ has no need for the gospel to be confirmed with signs & wonders? Jesus did then for those because they were more loved than you and I today?
I do not believe that for one second.

Jesus said you and I are to pray for the sick and preach the Gospel which Paul said " Is the Power of God".

God from what we see in the Bible is the God of the miraculous in Both Ols and New Testament. And God has not changed.

Yes there are those who pervert the word of God to enrich themselves known as the Error of Balaam,



What is the Error of Balaam? He loved the riches of the heathen and he used the prophetic to hurt the people of God and told the enemies of Gods people how to bring them down. tried to use a false god to do it and failed which took his life.

Don't be distracted by these tv, youtube types they too shall be judged and I will stay far away from them. I don't have to say every day how they are in error, I am called to preach the truth and The Holy Spirit confirms the true message today in the following way STILL!.

1. salvation
2. addictions broken
3. marriages restored
4. sickness healed
5. provisions given
6. purpose and gifts and talents revealed to people

Well, you make me feel almost "agnostic." Jesus was vexed to be asked to show signs and miracles and I always believed the reason for that was because ignorant people who didn't care enough to read his words or scriptures would tempt him for miracles and wonders. He called them an evil generation.

Think about it: If he came up to me at a water fountain today and declared himself to me, I wouldn't dare ask him for a miracle or a sign.

Of course, he won't come up to me like that, he will come from the sky and all eyes will see him.

Will I argue with you about miracles and signs? No. I don't tend to believe them whereas you are more openminded to believe. The scriptures are enough for me. I find Jesus in there and there is no need of miracles or signs to make me believe.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Jesus did it to VALIDATE His message that He was the Messiah and had come to His people the Jews.

The APOSTLES were given the same power so as to do the very same thing so that the gospel would be heard and accepted.

I understand. I read that they performed all those miracles by the spirit.