TONGUES TODAY

GRACE_ambassador · May 20, 2021

Precious friend(s), Since God's PERFECT Word of Truth, Which Has Come,
And Is Still here, but is Considered IMPERFECT by some men:

1ofthem said:

Uh, no, Precious friend, we did NOT say "knowledge." the "UNtrustworthy"
version of the Bible Says: "the GIFT of knowledge," As God Gave Peter,
And Was Displayed In Acts Chapter 5!

1ofthem said:

This, of course, LEAVES OUT Both The Word Of God, AND JESUS CHRIST, The
PERFECT One, Who "Comes to the earth" LONG before "the Heavenly Jerusalem!"

1ofthem said:

Sorry, the Church has been weak, and Severely Divided, for so long now,
Especially Because of The Massive Confusion of MAINLY water baptism,
and then signs, miracles, wonders, dreams/visions, and, Finally Various
Confusing end-time eschatologies...

1ofthem said:

Precious friend, Again, IF That Which Is PERFECT Has NOT COME Yet,
THEN "are we not ALL In Very SERIOUS TROUBLE!"?:

(1) God's PURE, PRESERVED, INFALLIBLE, And PERFECT WORD CANNOT
be trusted, being Declared, by men, to be IMPERFECT! Correct?

(2) God's PERFECT WORD Of Truth CANNOT Speak about God's
Eternal Salvation, Since IT is now UNtrustworthy, Correct?

(3) God's PERFECT Word CANNOT Speak to anyone about HOW TO:

"...walk BY FAITH, and NOT by sight!..." (2Co 5:7),
being UNtrustworthy, Correct?

(4) IF God's PERFECT Word is as men think - IMPERFECT, THEN this
slanders God's HOLY Name, Because HE Has "MAGNIFIED HIS PERFECT
Word Above All Of HIS HOLY Name!" (Psalms 138 : 2 KJB!)

Why Would God "MAGNIFY" something IMPERFECT
Above HIS Own PERFECT Name? Makes NO sense at all...

Thus, we stand alone On "God's PERFECT Word, Which Has Come,"
or Else we have NO HOPE in an UNtrustworthy/Imperfect Word,
Correct?

Precious friend(s), Be Blessed!

Kavik · May 21, 2021

Absolutely said:

As stated, I am neither a cessationist nor a continuationist; I do not identify with either term. In fact I had never heard of either until just a few years ago. This seems to be 'born again Christian' nomenclature.

As far as the audience needing an interpreter, it's because no one there at that particular public gathering understands the speaker's language. The only person being edified is the speaker. Paul calls for clarity and understanding at a public worship setting such that all may benefit; thus, his calling for an interpretation so all may benefit.

1 Cor. 14:14-15 -
This one could easily take a few pages to explain properly, but I'll try and sum it up as briefly as possible.....

AS with Acts, you have to go to the Greek. This passage hinges on the Greek word “akarpos” – which can be used in two different ways: in an active sense and in a passive sense.

Many people subscribe to a passive usage, i.e. my understanding is unfruitful ( to me ), or my understanding produces no fruit in/for me . In short, what I'm saying doesn't benefit me as I have no idea what I'm saying even though I am praying “in the spirit” (as defined in my previous posts).

Given that Paul, in his letter, calls for clarity and understanding at a public worship such that everyone there can benefit, an active understanding of ‘akarpos’ makes considerable more sense in light of what Paul is trying to convey: that is, my understanding is unfruitful for others , or my understanding produces no fruit for/in others .

In other words, the fact I understand what I’m saying does not benefit anyone else as they don’t speak my language.

This is not just my view, but also the view of a number of Biblical commentators (Clarke, Barnes, Coffman, Gill, Vincent, Wesley, Abbott, Calvin, Coke, Meyer, Edwards, Schaff, et al.)

Now, before you think using this passage with an active meaning is something far-fetched, or a new concept, or a recent ‘theory’, consider Luther’s Bible of 1534 - written almost 500 years ago, and some 30 years before King James was even born.

This same passage is rendered (in English) “...my understanding brings no one fruit”.

Even almost 500 years ago, the idea of this passage having an active usage was nothing new. Indeed, an active understanding/reading fits better with Paul’s intent of clarity so all may benefit. Further, it's clear here the speaker is praying in a particular (known) language; his native language.

There’s just no evidence whatsoever of modern tongues-speech here. The speaker understands perfectly well what he’s saying; again, it’s the audience who doesn’t understand, and thus does not benefit.

Verse 15 - In this verse, the speaker will 'pray/sing in the Spirit' (as defined in my original post), and will pray with his mind/understanding. The context requires that praying/singing with 'his mind' is understood to mean with his mind bearing fruit or being fruitful to others. Again, the active sense as already defined in verse 14. It's all about real, rational language. One the speaker knows, one the audience does not.

Yes, in Acts, the Apostles were speaking real, rational language, but not nearly as many as most people suppose.

Kavik · May 21, 2021

Absolutely said:

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles – it stands to reason that he would use his knowledge of languages more than the average person. It was essentially part of his ‘job description’. He’s not advocating for modern tongues-speech here.

Yes, Paul left instructions for how to handle real language issues in a multi cultural, language diverse church. Again, he's not laying down rules to govern (modern) tongues-speech.

Major · May 21, 2021

PaulChristensen said:

That is exactly what I have done. Have you not read the Scriptures and references I have posted??????

Videos simply bring what many have been told to right in front of their eyes. A PICTURE is worth a million words.

Major · May 21, 2021

CS1 said:

Then you have had 40 years to do READ the Bible, do the work and the study to find the truth.

However......"You like what YOU know, and YOU know what you like and you are are going to stick with it even if it is wrong"!

Major · May 21, 2021

Blade said:

It is not a matter of me or anyone else saying that the Sign Gifts have ended. We can say anything. Saying and believing are two different things I have and will say again that what I do is based on what GOD HAS SAID.

Now you made a really good post and I actually agree with you. Now take the time and READ what GOD SAID and then PRAY and use your logic and brain.

Mark 16:14-20........
"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19So then after the LORD had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the LORD working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Allow me to point out several GRAMATICAL points to you.

#1. Verse 14 says that Christ "appeared unto the ELEVEN". The ELEVEN were the Apostles who were the Disciples before the Crucifixion.

#2. In these 6 verse, GOD uses the derivative.... "THEM/THEY 13 times.

#3. Verse 17 says that THESE SIGNS shall follow THEM THAT BELIEVE. In the Greek language that is an ANTECENTANT. That means the
"THEM THAT BELIEVE" is pointing back to the original CONTEXTUAL subject of the unit of Scriptures seen in verse #14 which is the
ELEVEN.

#4. These ELEVEN Apostles were given the SIGN GIFTS. There is NO Scripture anywhere in the Bible that says YOU AND ME are given
these SIGN GIFTS. To have the SIGN GIFTS, one has to be an Apostle and that is impossible today as an Apostle had to have had a
face to face commission from the Lord Jesus Christ.

#5. The ELEVEN Apostles were given a PACKAGE of gifts. ALL the gifts were given to ALL the Apostles.
A. They could cast out devils.
B. They could speak with new tongues.
C. They could handle serpents without being killed.
D. They could heal the sick and in fact they raised the dead. (Peter in Acts 9:36-42 ).

They could do ALL those things and did not all those things BUT........NO WHERE in the Bible does it say or suggest that they could pick and choose the one or two that they wanted to do.

So then.....what is the point?????

The point is that if anyone today insists that that have the SIGN GIFT of speaking in tongues then they ......
MUST ALSO BE ABLE TO KISS RATTLE SNAKES, DRING BLEACH, HEAL THE SICK AND CAST OUT DEMONS.

So ask yourself this simple question, all of you who say you have the Sign Gift of tongues............

WHY ARE YOU NOT HAVING A RATTLESNAKE AS A PET?
WHY ARE YOU NOT PERFORMING EXORCISMS DAILY?
WHY ARE YOU NOT GOING FROM HOSPITAL TO HOSPITAL HEALING THE SICK?
WHY ARE YOU NOT DRINKING DIRTY DISH WATER INSTEAD OF BOTTELED WATER?

And before one of you educated Bible students say......"We do not temp the Lord thy God"------
What I just asked you is NOT TEMPTING GOD.

It is asking YOU why YOU do not have what GOD SAID that the ELEVEN HAD.

I will also now tell you why you say YOU speak in tongues but do not do the other GIFTS that GOD gave the ELEVEN.

Of all 5 SIGN GIFTS given to the ELEVEN......Speaking in tongues is the ONLY ONE that can be FAKED!

CS1 · May 21, 2021

Major said:

FYI Jesus is the only Way the only Truth and the Only Life. I thank God for saving me and filling me with the Holy Spirit. I thank him for the gifts of the Holy Spirit that have led me around the world and on both coasts of the United States. I have seen many saved and healed in the ministry God has called me to at 15 years of age. I have answered the call and have learned and grown in the grace and knowledge of the Lord and I am still learning more about Him and His love every day.

I speak Spanish, Japanese, Turkish, Korean, Tai, Tagalog. I to speak in tongues too which was given to me supernaturally by the Holy Spirit in 1983. I was alone and I did not have anyone try to teach me I prayed and asked for the Empowering of the Holy Spirit and by faith in the name of Jesus I received and began to speak as the Holy Spirit gave the ability.

I am not more saved or more holy but I have a dynamic witness and ability to preach the word of God where I have seen God save heal and deliver and restore. For that I am humbled.

ResidentAlien · May 21, 2021

SophieT said:

Fair enough. But before you go, if you could just answer a couple of questions it would help me a lot.

Have you personally witnessed what you consider a genuine gift of tongues in operation? If so, what criteria did you use to determine it was genuine? Is it something objective you can share with us so we all can do the same: that is, use the same criteria and determine if what we are witnessing is real or not?

CS1 · May 21, 2021

ResidentAlien said:

Fair enough. But before you go, if you could just answer a couple of questions it would help me a lot.

Have you personally witnessed what you consider a genuine gift of tongues in operation? If so, what criteria did you use to determine it was genuine? Is it something objective you can share with us so we all can do the same: that is, use the same criteria and determine if what we are witnessing is real or not?

I'm not sure who you are asking?

CS1 · May 21, 2021

Major said:

It is not a matter of me or anyone else saying that the Sign Gifts have ended. We can say anything. Saying and believing are two different things I have and will say again that what I do is based on what GOD HAS SAID.

Now you made a really good post and I actually agree with you. Now take the time and READ what GOD SAID and then PRAY and use your logic and brain.

Mark 16:14-20........
"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19So then after the LORD had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the LORD working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Allow me to point out several GRAMATICAL points to you.

#1. Verse 14 says that Christ "appeared unto the ELEVEN". The ELEVEN were the Apostles who were the Disciples before the Crucifixion.

#2. In these 6 verse, GOD uses the derivative.... "THEM/THEY 13 times.

#3. Verse 17 says that THESE SIGNS shall follow THEM THAT BELIEVE. In the Greek language that is an ANTECENTANT. That means the
"THEM THAT BELIEVE" is pointing back to the original CONTEXTUAL subject of the unit of Scriptures seen in verse #14 which is the
ELEVEN.

#4. These ELEVEN Apostles were given the SIGN GIFTS. There is NO Scripture anywhere in the Bible that says YOU AND ME are given
these SIGN GIFTS. To have the SIGN GIFTS, one has to be an Apostle and that is impossible today as an Apostle had to have had a
face to face commission from the Lord Jesus Christ.

#5. The ELEVEN Apostles were given a PACKAGE of gifts. ALL the gifts were given to ALL the Apostles.
A. They could cast out devils.
B. They could speak with new tongues.
C. They could handle serpents without being killed.
D. They could heal the sick and in fact they raised the dead. (Peter in Acts 9:36-42 ).

They could do ALL those things and did not all those things BUT........NO WHERE in the Bible does it say or suggest that they could pick and choose the one or two that they wanted to do.

So then.....what is the point?????

The point is that if anyone today insists that that have the SIGN GIFT of speaking in tongues then they ......
MUST ALSO BE ABLE TO KISS RATTLE SNAKES, DRING BLEACH, HEAL THE SICK AND CAST OUT DEMONS.

So ask yourself this simple question, all of you who say you have the Sign Gift of tongues............

WHY ARE YOU NOT HAVING A RATTLESNAKE AS A PET?
WHY ARE YOU NOT PERFORMING EXORCISMS DAILY?
WHY ARE YOU NOT GOING FROM HOSPITAL TO HOSPITAL HEALING THE SICK?
WHY ARE YOU NOT DRINKING DIRTY DISH WATER INSTEAD OF BOTTELED WATER?

And before one of you educated Bible students say......"We do not temp the Lord thy God"------
What I just asked you is NOT TEMPTING GOD.

It is asking YOU why YOU do not have what GOD SAID that the ELEVEN HAD.

I will also now tell you why you say YOU speak in tongues but do not do the other GIFTS that GOD gave the ELEVEN.

Of all 5 SIGN GIFTS given to the ELEVEN......Speaking in tongues is the ONLY ONE that can be FAKED!

one big scoff and mocking of those who are not of the same like-mindedness as you.

Remember guy, you will be judged by the measure you have measured. So right back at you

Why are you NOT:

WHY ARE YOU NOT HAVING A RATTLESNAKE AS A PET?
WHY ARE YOU NOT PERFORMING EXORCISMS DAILY?
WHY ARE YOU NOT GOING FROM HOSPITAL TO HOSPITAL HEALING THE SICK?
WHY ARE YOU NOT DRINKING DIRTY DISH WATER INSTEAD OF BOTTELED WATER?

answer that guy?

Major · May 21, 2021

CS1 said:

Because I AM NOT AN Apostle and only the ELEVEN had those Sign Gifts. IF you had actually read the Scriptures I posted for you, you would not have had to ask your question and embarrass yourself.

Major · May 21, 2021

CS1 said:

You said...........
"Remember guy, you will be judged by the measure you have measured."

Amen my brother! And I am closer to that today than I have ever been and I stand ready to give an account of everything said and done in my life to the glory of God.

I just hope that what you said, YOU realize is a TWO way street my friend!

Colossians 2:8 -
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

1 Timothy 4:1 -
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils".

Major · May 21, 2021

CS1 said:

What does it matter WHO?

IF you know why not respond?

Major · May 21, 2021

CS1 said:

WOW!

I can only speak in 4 so I guess you win............
Alabamian,
Floridian,
American,
Country boy,

It is amazing how the ability to sit behind a computer gives people such mental powers that you can speak in so many languages.
I can only wonder that if we were talking face to face if you could speak in SEVEN different languages.

Then......with that kind of ability, to speak in 7 (SEVEN) different languages you then choose to speak in a GIBBERISH noise that absolutely no one understands!!!!

CS1 · May 21, 2021

Major said:

it's called respect to his question please leave us adults alone thank you.

CS1 · May 21, 2021

Major said:

what a cop-out I am not one either but what have you done you, hypocrite.

You hurl INDICTMENTS at the "Church" Yet you yourself don't lift a figure to help people.

Colossians 2:8 -
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

1 Timothy 4:1 -
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils".

This applies to you, sir.

DWR · May 21, 2021

Don't mean to offend, but I still just do not understand the fascination that some have in what they call "speaking in tongues".

CS1 · May 21, 2021

Major said:

you are insulting to those from Alabama, and Florida, and country people. You are a very ignorant person and being a country boy has nothing to do with it. You are just a hateful person because I called on your judgment of others. And I don't sit at my PC as you may think I have a job and in the ministry. I am here because I happen to love many people here even those who have and do disagree with me yet are far more able to make an argument than you. You are a person who has hate.

And as I said earlier which you did not address, why are you not doing what you judge other of? What great testimony you have for the lord?

CS1 · May 21, 2021

DWR said:

there is none, it is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has given a new wonderful way to pray powerfully. unfortunately, as with Every Gift God gives and entrust men and women with, they abuse them and people get hurt. There is no gift more abused than that of the Pastor.

But when they are used as God intended people are blessed.

SophieT · May 21, 2021

Blade said:

Some believe the gifts are gone because that which is perfect has come. Yet 1Cor Chapter 12,13 its clear to me I right now only know and see in part. The way I see 1 Cor 13:9 .. I don't read any past tense. Is it not written "but WHEN the perfect comes". Then wow we live in a fallen world... is ANYONE reading this thread alone? Is not already clear we see in part not fully?

always conveniently ignored by the cessy set

TONGUES TODAY

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

DWR

Guest

Well-known member

Well-known member

SophieT

Guest