TONGUES is a precious gift from God

[SophieT]

Delusion:

1. A false belief that is resistant to confrontation with actual facts.

2. The state of being deluded or misled, or process of deluding somebody.

3. That which is falsely or delusively believed or propagated; false belief; error in belief.

4. A fixed, false belief, that will not change, despite evidence to the contrary.

​

too bad you have me on ignore cause I have an interesting question for you. first of all you have nothing but objections...see, I'm a little funny. I look for solutions.

so, do you have some? solutions that is? how would you begin to correct all of this delusion going on?

maybe someone else has some ideas?

we can moan and groan till the cows come home, but they will still need to be milked

 

[SophieT]

...................................................................................

...............................................................................

 

[SophieT]

LOL! and how does that work for you?

I've prayed that also...do we need our spirit renewed? why if so? is that like....an oil change?

Funny

1. [IMG]https://christianchat.com/data/avatars/s/254/254930.jpg?1636681710[/IMG]
   Lafftur

how is that even beginning to be funny?

this thread is not funny

do you know why I am using a little humor? people here are easily offended and I think I have been so also

 

[SophieT]

at this time, I will consider the x's, thumbs down and personal insults as proof I am getting on someone's nerves

frankly, I am with Paul when he says he would rather speak a few words and be understood then yabber in tongues and be misunderstood

1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.2For anyone who speaks in a tongue [1] does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. [2]3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort.4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, [3] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,
[4] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes?8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

I Corinthians

this is instructional. I have been in the midst of perfect chaos though and will no longer attend such gatherings. I have most likely heard almost all of it and I am not ignorant of the nonsense...harmful nonsense...that is practiced in some pretty big churches...or clubs as the case may be

oh. and don't think I am some mousy person in the corner who tries to be a Debby Downer because I am unpopular

don't think that...because I have had many offers (I have one of those voices that people enjoy but I only mention it so you can see I am not complaining, but poking at some sleepers I hope and even causing some doubters to think a bit perhaps?)

Jesus did not drag a cross too heavy for Him through the streets with people throwing rocks at Him, spitting on Him and telling Him to save Himself so we could all have a good time in whatever church it is we think we are in

we are in trouble and I say we, because I am believer also

 

[Lafftur]

LOL! and how does that work for you?

I've prayed that also...do we need our spirit renewed? why if so? is that like....an oil change?

Funny

1. [IMG]https://christianchat.com/data/avatars/s/254/254930.jpg?1636681710[/IMG]
   Lafftur

how is that even beginning to be funny?

this thread is not funny

do you know why I am using a little humor? people here are easily offended and I think I have been so also

Oh dear @SophieT

I thought you were being funny by calling a "renewed spirit" an oil change because the Holy Spirit can be referred to as "oil" even though it's not the Holy Spirit being renewed, it's our spirit man being renewed.

Okay, I will be serious with you and answer your questions.

The scripture I quoted about the heart to Oblio was:


Psalm 51:10

King James Version

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

A clean heart seeks the good for others and gives mercy and forgiveness, and believes the Truth.

An unclean heart is holding grudges against others and even itself, it is full of unforgiveness and selfish motives that are seeking revenge, it can be very judgmental and critical of others, God, and itself.

We get hurt in life and often our hearts become hardened and defiled. The good news is...God's Word and Holy Spirit can clean our hearts.

When our hearts become defiled, our spirit man plots and schemes to carry out the wicked desires of our defiled heart, which renders our spirit man not right with God.

The Holy Spirit in us is ALWAYS good, it's our spirit man - the inner man that needs to be renewed and refreshed with God's Holy Spirit.

King David had become idle, he was at a point in his life that he was not pursuing God or his enemies....just being complacent...drifting farther away from the Presence of God. He got entangled with sin with Bathsheba and ended up in adultery and murder.

David knew his heart was not clean and his spirit within him was not right. He also knew that God could clean his heart and renew his spirit....and God did and will do for us too!

It is so important to stay in fellowship with God by pursuing God with all we are and not letting our enemies have the advantage over us. We don't wrestle against people, our enemies are spiritual. We win our wars from the Heavenly Realm seated with Christ Jesus.

It's a War of Words filled with Truth, Faith, Power, and Authority, and Love.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Oh dear @SophieT

I thought you were being funny by calling a "renewed spirit" an oil change because the Holy Spirit can be referred to as "oil" even though it's not the Holy Spirit being renewed, it's our spirit man being renewed.

Okay, I will be serious with you and answer your questions.

The scripture I quoted about the heart to Oblio was:


Psalm 51:10

King James Version

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

A clean heart seeks the good for others and gives mercy and forgiveness, and believes the Truth.

An unclean heart is holding grudges against others and even itself, it is full of unforgiveness and selfish motives that are seeking revenge, it can be very judgmental and critical of others, God, and itself.

We get hurt in life and often our hearts become hardened and defiled. The good news is...God's Word and Holy Spirit can clean our hearts.

When our hearts become defiled, our spirit man plots and schemes to carry out the wicked desires of our defiled heart, which renders our spirit man not right with God.

The Holy Spirit in us is ALWAYS good, it's our spirit man - the inner man that needs to be renewed and refreshed with God's Holy Spirit.

King David had become idle, he was at a point in his life that he was not pursuing God or his enemies....just being complacent...drifting farther away from the Presence of God. He got entangled with sin with Bathsheba and ended up in adultery and murder.

David knew his heart was not clean and his spirit within him was not right. He also knew that God could clean his heart and renew his spirit....and God did and will do for us too!

It is so important to stay in fellowship with God by pursuing God with all we are and not letting our enemies have the advantage over us. We don't wrestle against people, our enemies are spiritual. We win our wars from the Heavenly Realm seated with Christ Jesus.

It's a War of Words filled with Truth, Faith, Power, and Authority, and Love.

And what you wrote just there sister is utterly false.

 

[SophieT]

"Lafftur, post: 4761404, member: 254930"]Oh dear @SophieT

well thank you

I thought you were being funny by calling a "renewed spirit" an oil change because the Holy Spirit can be referred to as "oil" even though it's not the Holy Spirit being renewed, it's our spirit man being renewed.

well I did say I was being funny and why. I mentioned offense taking root in so many...and offensive at other believers no less. I included myself

Okay, I will be serious with you and answer your questions.

The scripture I quoted about the heart to Oblio was:


Psalm 51:10

King James Version

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

yes. I am familiar with that verse as I said.

A clean heart seeks the good for others and gives mercy and forgiveness, and believes the Truth.

An unclean heart is holding grudges against others and even itself, it is full of unforgiveness and selfish motives that are seeking revenge, it can be very judgmental and critical of others, God, and itself.

We get hurt in life and often our hearts become hardened and defiled. The good news is...God's Word and Holy Spirit can clean our hearts.

yes I and all others have no doubt experienced being hurt, possibly holding grudges and being critical etc.

I firmly believe we must forgive...from the heart as Jesus said. and if needs be, go to the person who has offended us

When our hearts become defiled, our spirit man plots and schemes to carry out the wicked desires of our defiled heart, which renders our spirit man not right with God.

I don't believe I agree with this. are our spirits renewed by God or not? are we able to override our spirits? I would think so considering all the knee deep sin many Christians are in. I believe it is our soul as scripture describes that is 'eager' to sin and not our spirits. maybe it's just me, but I am also not keen on the expression 'spirit-man'

I don't think the Bible describes our spirit as a 'spirit man' consider Romans 8:10,

But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

I would understand that as our spirits have been given life by the Holy Spirit, when we believed, that our spirit would not be the channel through which we might (habitually or otherwise) sin. (although we also learn that our spirits can be defiled...that might make an interesting topic for discussion and understanding) but it is the Holy Spirit who give us life without doubt


The Holy Spirit in us is ALWAYS good, it's our spirit man - the inner man that needs to be renewed and refreshed with God's Holy Spirit.

ummm... no, the Holy Spirit is not OUR spirit man. we have a spirit which is renewed by our acceptance of Christ and HIS righteousness. perhaps you did not mean to word it quite that way? are you aware the actual meaning of salvation is better explained by looking at the Greek? we are not only saved...future tense...but we are continually BEING saved...that life is of God and has no end...and forgiven of all past sin....not meaning here that we can sin and not worry about it (I am sure you would not think that anyway...but some people do...some right in this forum)

King David had become idle, he was at a point in his life that he was not pursuing God or his enemies....just being complacent...drifting farther away from the Presence of God. He got entangled with sin with Bathsheba and ended up in adultery and murder.

David knew his heart was not clean and his spirit within him was not right. He also knew that God could clean his heart and renew his spirit....and God did and will do for us too!

the interesting thing there, is that Nathan was sent of God to remind David of who he was, what he had done and that God had seen it all. are we, perhaps, somewhat like that and need to be reminded of the same? I was recently judged by someone in this thread as being unloving and being sharp. I am not prophet, but pointing out the major doctrinal errors of someone leading others astray is not being unChristian then, wouldn't you agree?

we have some very upset people who cannot see their way to believing tongues are real...as we know they are...and being told you must speak in tongues or you are not saved is what is unChristian. so, if a person cannot bear up under correction given to another, then they must either be in agreement with the error or of the opinion that it is unloving to correct anyone...again, unscriptural.

I am not inserting myself into this post to claim innocence...but if we are in the BDF, a hundred different opinions cannot possibly all be right and we cannot possibly agree on very much if we think to just let everything go because it does not go. it stays and causes division and more of that resentment you mentioned among other things


It is so important to stay in fellowship with God by pursuing God with all we are and not letting our enemies have the advantage over us. We don't wrestle against people, our enemies are spiritual. We win our wars from the Heavenly Realm seated with Christ Jesus.

spiritual enemies are very real. have you ever noticed that Paul, when addressing the Corinthians in his second letter, says that we (meaning himself and those he is writing to) are not ignorant of satan's schemes? he states this in the context of the devil not being able to overcome those who are knowledgeable of those schemes

I believe that Christ won the war and that we, in Him, can stand as per Ephesians, and having done all, to stand...instead of falling down like bowling pins. the winds of false doctrine blow with increasing force and not
every word, even the best sounding ones at times, are from God

we have the entire Bible to understand those schemes and yet I am convinced many people do not apprehend the lessons revealed but fall into and in front of said schemes...as did David

It's a War of Words filled with Truth, Faith, Power, and Authority, and Love.

well it is a war.

 

[SophieT]

And what you wrote just there sister is utterly false.

I'm in trouble now...but there I often am

avoidance

I am sorry for the offense I have caused you. I can make excuses, but there it is

 

[Oblio]

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I'm in trouble now...but there I often am

avoidance

I am sorry for the offense I have caused you. I can make excuses, but there it is

Sister, thank you for your apology - and I can't say that I wasn't offended at times - but I can say that I am not stumbling because of that offence and nor do I hold any offence against you either.

The most noble sister I ever knew I officiated at her funeral nearly two years ago and I learned some deep things from her life. I knew her for 23 years and witnessed the pain she had held because of the failure of many people in her life. Yet she left numerous diaries after she had gone. I spent a few days with her adult children and we read her diaries. What we found was her many prayers for all those who had offended her in life. Years of them - everyday prayers and prayers and many prayers.

She was a Sherman tank in life and could just about remove any obstacle at a glance - but inwardly she bore the pain of the battle and she cried out to God daily. I knew this because I was the only brother she ever trusted in Ministry and so I already knew everything in detail. I often used to reflect during her illness just what I had heard her tell me and what I told her in an unction of the Spirit. How I could see her decency and yet knew her pain and the misunderstanding that so often took place outwardly when others took offence at her - yet she intended well and was the most honest and truthful witness for Christ I have known.

In the end she was sitting at a window in the chapel and watching the flocks of birds that came into the street in front of the building. And I asked her what she was thinking. She told me that she was thinking on Simeon and Anna in the Temple - and so I said and they waited at the end of their lives to behold the Salvation of God.

 

[SophieT]

Sister, thank you for your apology - and I can't say that I wasn't offended at times - but I can say that I am not stumbling because of that offence and nor do I hold any offence against you either.

The most noble sister I ever knew I officiated at her funeral nearly two years ago and I learned some deep things from her life. I knew her for 23 years and witnessed the pain she had held because of the failure of many people in her life. Yet she left numerous diaries after she had gone. I spent a few days with her adult children and we read her diaries. What we found was her many prayers for all those who had offended her in life. Years of them - everyday prayers and prayers and many prayers.

She was a Sherman tank in life and could just about remove any obstacle at a glance - but inwardly she bore the pain of the battle and she cried out to God daily. I knew this because I was the only brother she ever trusted in Ministry and so I already knew everything in detail. I often used to reflect during her illness just what I had heard her tell me and what I told her in an unction of the Spirit. How I could see her decency and yet knew her pain and the misunderstanding that so often took place outwardly when others took offence at her - yet she intended well and was the most honest and truthful witness for Christ I have known.

In the end she was sitting at a window in the chapel and watching the flocks of birds that came into the street in front of the building. And I asked her what she was thinking. She told me that she was thinking on Simeon and Anna in the Temple - and so I said and they waited at the end of their lives to behold the Salvation of God.

Thank you

 

[Oblio]

You're welcome.

 

[Lafftur]

And who do you say the Holy Spirit is?

Hello @Rhomphaeam (aka "Shakespeare" to me )

Hmmm......who is the Holy Spirit?

We could always ask Him, He does like to talk to us....but, He really only talks to us about Jesus and the Word...the Holy Spirit is kind of mysterious....

Jesus is the One that tells us about the Holy Spirit....

The Holy Spirit is the Promise of the Father that Jesus Christ gives to us. The Holy Spirit is our Comforter, Helper, Teacher, Guide, Counselor, will instruct us and correct us, open the scriptures to us and give us understanding.

The Holy Spirit indwells a true Believer.

Also, I think the Seven Spirits at the Throne of God is the Holy Spirit. Any and every time there is a "7" it is the Holy Spirit at work to perform the Word of God.

The Will of God the Father is accomplished with His Word and His Holy Spirit working together - one is Authority and one is Power.

The Holy Spirit seals us the moment we believe and receive Jesus Christ as Savior, Lord and King.

Also, Jesus Christ baptizes us with the Holy Spirit (and Fire) which empowers us to be witnesses of Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit produces Fruit in the life of a Believer and gives gifts that are for the edifying of the Body of Christ.

And we need to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit - like a cell phone needs to be recharged to 100% power.

The Holy Spirit descended on Jesus Christ as a dove in bodily form.

The Holy Spirit is the Breath of God....Jesus "breathed" on His disciples and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and will lead us and guide us into all Truth.

He is the Revealer of the secrets and hidden manana of God, and makes known things that are to come.

He is the Power of the Highest.....He is God.

He is the Living Water that Jesus gives us to drink.

The Holy Spirit can be grieved, quenched, neglected and resisted.

The Holy Spirit can be stirred up and excited in a Believer.

It's very deadly to blasphemy the Holy Spirit - there is no forgiveness for that one.

Oh how I do love God and all His Ways!

There's soooooo much more....Who is the Holy Spirit to you, Rhomphaeam?

 

[Lafftur]

And what you wrote just there sister is utterly false.

I'm in trouble now...but there I often am

avoidance

I am sorry for the offense I have caused you. I can make excuses, but there it is

Oh dear, I don't think you're in trouble @SophieT , I think I'm in trouble with @Rhomphaeam! LOL!

Oh well, here we go....

 

[Lafftur]

And what you wrote just there sister is utterly false.

Well, you are definitely entitled to your opinion.

 

[PaulChristensen]

at this time, I will consider the x's, thumbs down and personal insults as proof I am getting on someone's nerves

frankly, I am with Paul when he says he would rather speak a few words and be understood then yabber in tongues and be misunderstood

1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.2For anyone who speaks in a tongue [1] does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. [2]3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort.4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, [3] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,
[4] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes?8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

I Corinthians

this is instructional. I have been in the midst of perfect chaos though and will no longer attend such gatherings. I have most likely heard almost all of it and I am not ignorant of the nonsense...harmful nonsense...that is practiced in some pretty big churches...or clubs as the case may be

oh. and don't think I am some mousy person in the corner who tries to be a Debby Downer because I am unpopular

don't think that...because I have had many offers (I have one of those voices that people enjoy but I only mention it so you can see I am not complaining, but poking at some sleepers I hope and even causing some doubters to think a bit perhaps?)

Jesus did not drag a cross too heavy for Him through the streets with people throwing rocks at Him, spitting on Him and telling Him to save Himself so we could all have a good time in whatever church it is we think we are in

we are in trouble and I say we, because I am believer also

I once went to a service in a city church where the service was all in the Samoan language. It was all nonsense to me too because I don't know Samoan. In my Presbyterian church we used to have combined services with the Korean congregation. When their pastor preached in Korean that was all nonsense to me as well.

The point I am making is that for an unlearned or uninitiated person, some aspects of a Pentecostal service can be nonsense to them. But for those who know how Pentecostal services are structured, they know exactly what is going on and why. A RCC service in liturgical Latin would be nonsense to me if I went to one because I have no knowledge of Latin. In New Zealand one of our official languages is Maori, and many functions start with a speech in the Maori language (called a "Mihi"). Because I don't know much of the language, the person speaking might as well be speaking in tongues. But for the Maori people present, it is fully understandable.

Therefore, if people in a Pentecostal service are praying and worshiping in tongues, then the most important Person present understands it even though no one else may. So if the most important Person understands and enjoys what is being said, who is there to criticise?

 

[Oblio]

This thread...the gift that keeps on giving. No, it doesn't. Yes, it does! Prove it! Lol It's not funny! Yes, it is!!!

 

[Oblio]

Shades of Argumentary Board. But kinder!

 

[Lafftur]

This thread...the gift that keeps on giving. No, it doesn't. Yes, it does! Prove it! Lol It's not funny! Yes, it is!!!

 

[Lafftur]

This thread...the gift that keeps on giving. No, it doesn't. Yes, it does! Prove it! Lol It's not funny! Yes, it is!!!