TONGUES is a precious gift from God

[Heaven_Bound]

Well you are assuming a great deal sister. It was yourself that posted the so called Encyclopaedia of Tongues link and then posted most of its content into this thread. I asked you about the red flag that appears in the left side bar of several of the chronological time frames and you gave me your answer so I responded. Since then you have disagreed with the entirety of what I have said.

But as to the Kundalini issue - I posted a link to the Book by Jessie Penn-Lewis and Evan Roberts that was published in 1912. I made myself very clear as to what I was meaning by a false spirit because I sated that Jesse Penn-Lewis and Evan Roberts expressed that meaning informed by Evan Roberts leading role in that Revival. I haven't expressly stated where the false doctrines come from that inform the charismatic movement or what I mean by saying that the overwhelming source of that ill effect can be traced back to the US. It can - but I didn't expressed what I am talking about. I cited only one express link to a sense of a false spirit informing the work of God and that was with regard to the Welsh Revival of 1904/05. I am not concerned with how many small churches are in that ill effect if you determine what I am speaking about rather than letting me determine what I am speaking about. But I do understand the difficulty of forums and so no harm is done. Shalom.

Just a clarification, but I am a Man and I know it's hard to judge by a Name! And do not feel bad over it, I make the same mistake myself.

The Link to the Tongues History/Lineage I really never paid much attention to because the list is comprised with Believers in Tongues, non believers, those who Witnessed. Why that is marked as is, I cannot answer to that. And that surely is up for debate and how one chooses to interpret it.

And I do agree in [some] Mega-Churches, the spirit behind the scenes in examples of violently shaking your head while reading Scripture is more likely the spirit of demons within the Reader reacting to the Holy Word of God. These are things you just never see in your local Church and would not be accepted or allowed. But Yes, some Churches, especially what we've seen on television, I would never claim is of God.

 

[SophieT]

I am perfectly happy to talk about reformed doctrine and Calvinism in particular in any thread you care to start. But in this thread the issue of Calvinism is implicit in the belief to a cessation of the baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit. Which is where that brother is at whom you slandered

not at all. you have a certain view which appears to contain the belief that you need to straighten everyone out because of your belief in Calvinism

Calvinism is not implicit in the topic of cessationism to anyone here save yourself and a few others which may or not show up

as to your silly remark that I slandered someone, well, I have called it silly and that it is. you are obviously not as discerning as you believe yourself to be

 

[Rhomphaeam]

the problem I have with my Pentecostals and Charismatics to the point if I understand you do by making devils that are not named in the word of God. Jezebel spirit, kundni spirit, spirit of baalim, etc.. there are many books on them to make money and fleece the flock

there is Only the Holy Spirit and a lying devil spirit .

there is truth and lie
light and darkness
Up and down
SAVED AND unsaved.

Well that's the point isn't it brother. I am not making a reference to the spirit of the evil one - I am chiefly drawing attention to another kind of spirit and that is the one that is in the mind of men and women when they abrogate spiritual authority by secular means and then press that effect into the churches by always trying to wrestle men down. I find it somewhat flattering really - my wife thinks they must be desperate.

 

[CS1]

Well that's the point isn't it brother. I am not making a reference to the spirit of the evil one - I am chiefly drawing attention to another kind of spirit and that is the one that is in the mind of men and women when they abrogate spiritual authority by secular means and then press that effect into the churches by always trying to wrestle men down. I find it somewhat flattering really - my wife thinks they must be desperate.

then to that I say amen.

 

[kaylagrl]

Just crazy, no matter which way it starts the subject swings round again. Seems there can't be a positive discussion on this subject.

Sorry, I got stuck in bubbles there. lol

 

[VARob]

please know I am not trying to get you to agree with me for it is settled with me as I am sure it is with you.

You are correct.

Can ask you two questions, please?

1. what is Prophesying according to 1cor chapter 12 and 14?

Prophesying is speaking TO men (1 Cor 14:3). They are words FROM God TO men that edify the church. It is God doing the speaking.

Since speaking in tongues is TO God (1 Cor 14:2), it is logical that the interpretation would be TO God. They are words of prayer and praise TO God (Acts 2:11; 10:46; 1 Cor 14:17).

2. what is the difference between edification that comes from prophesying and tongues and interpretation of tongues and edification?

To edify simply means to build up. Words both from God and to God can build up the church. A word of prophecy might be something like "I have called you to be my children, and I am a loving Father to each of you. Stand boldly for Me at all times, knowing I will never leave you or forsake you." Tongues with interpretation might be "O heavenly Father, there is no God like you. With your mighty power you spoke the universe into being, the beauty of Your creation is unsurpassed."

Both edify the church. Both are words of exhortation and/or comfort.

I thank you for your response in advance,

CS1,

You're welcome

 

[CS1]

You are correct.


Prophesying is speaking TO men (1 Cor 14:3). They are words FROM God TO men that edify the church. It is God doing the speaking.

Since speaking in tongues is TO God (1 Cor 14:2), it is logical that the interpretation would be TO God. They are words of prayer and praise TO God (Acts 2:11; 10:46; 1 Cor 14:17).


To edify simply means to build up. Words both from God and to God can build up the church. A word of prophecy might be something like "I have called you to be my children, and I am a loving Father to each of you. Stand boldly for Me at all times, knowing I will never leave you or forsake you." Tongues with interpretation might be "O heavenly Father, there is no God like you. With your mighty power you spoke the universe into being, the beauty of Your creation is unsurpassed."

Both edify the church. Both are words of exhortation and/or comfort.


You're welcome

again thank you for your response. I think were more in agreement than not, however,

Prophesying that is found in 1cor 12 & 14 chapters in the Greek means to speak under the inspiration. Preaching, proclaiming are words synonymous with prophesying in context to 1cor 12 and 14.


In use of speaking in tongues, the word of God says in 1cor chapter 14:14

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

This was said in context to those who were not going to be edified IF there was no interpretation in the verses 6-23

He who speaks is to pray HE may interpret. Therefore the person who the Holy Spirit has given the gift of tongues and interpretation can speak in tongues silently and pray for the interpretation and speak it publicly and that is equal to prophesying which is not to be mixed on with the prophecy.

 

[Aidan1]

yeah actually we can compare it because it was the start of what we call the church

we could learn something from it also

PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!! the Holy Spirit was sent by God not so that little men can make statements to attempt to destroy that work (not gonna happen) . so why then was the Holy Spirit sent? so that everyone everywhere can speak in tongues?

NO!!!!!!

“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere — in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

but what do you do?

you BADMOUTH the Holy Spirit and tell people not to believe and you are in Germany so you spread that news from there to a different continent

my

interesting comparison between what Jesus said to do and the fact we NEED the Holy Spirit and what you actually do

your negative influence and constant griping are the opposite of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit leads us into truth but constantly lie and say He is done and basically can pack up and go back home

the fact that you (and several others here) are determined to prove the Holy Spirit a liar and men truthtellers, is alarming and significant. I question what spirit you operate out of

Where i said that the Holy Spirit is a liar?
Where I said people not to believe?
Where i said he is not working today?
Who is claiming that man doctrine is more true, then what the Holy Spirit says through his word?

 

[Aidan1]

Speaking in tongues was never about spreading the gospel. It’s for edifying the individual believer (1 Cor 14:4), for praying (1 Cor 14:14), and when spoken aloud and interpreted in a public setting, it edifies the church (1 Cor 14:5). What happened on the day of Pentecost, where others present understood the languages the apostles were speaking, was unique, is not guaranteed, and in fact rarely happens, although it occasionally does. That’s why when a person speaks in tongues in public, it must be interpreted so people can understand what was said (1 Cor 14:5, 13, 27). When someone speaks in tongues, they are not witnessing or sharing the gospel, they are speaking divine secrets (1 Cor 14:2), praying (1 Cor 14:14-15), speaking the wonderful works of God (Acts 2:11), praising God, magnifying Him (Acts 10:46), thanking Him (1 Cor 14:17).

So why then the Holy Spirit gave this gift in Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19? This was openly in public, so that they could praise the Lord.
And there was no interpreter!
Have this events nothing to do with the Gospel, that Jesus came for all?
What are reasons for to magnify God, for to praise Him for to thank Him.
The most worthful reason, is that he sent his son who paid for our sin at the cross.
And this has nothing to do with the gospel?

 

[VARob]

again thank you for your response. I think were more in agreement than not, however,

Prophesying that is found in 1cor 12 & 14 chapters in the Greek means to speak under the inspiration. Preaching, proclaiming are words synonymous with prophesying in context to 1cor 12 and 14.

Yes, prophesying is speaking under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. So is tongues with interpretation, for that matter. My examples were just that, examples of what a prophecy or interpretation could be.

In use of speaking in tongues, the word of God says in 1cor chapter 14:14

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

This was said in context to those who were not going to be edified IF there was no interpretation in the verses 6-23

He who speaks is to pray HE may interpret. Therefore the person who the Holy Spirit has given the gift of tongues and interpretation can speak in tongues silently and pray for the interpretation

It seems that we agree that the person who speaks in tongues is to be the one to interpret (there is also 1 Cor 14:5: "except HE interpret.."), but he is not to pray FOR the interpretation, he is to pray in tongues out loud with the intent to interpret.

1 Cor 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

I think Paul is saying that he will pray with the spirit (speak in tongues) followed by praying with the understanding (the interpretation).

If a person does not intend to interpret, he should keep quiet and pray to himself and to God (1 Cor 14:28).

and speak it publicly and that is equal to prophesying which is not to be mixed on with the prophecy.

I think we understand similarly, but not identically.

 

[SophieT]

Where i said that the Holy Spirit is a liar?
Where I said people not to believe?
Where i said he is not working today?
Who is claiming that man doctrine is more true, then what the Holy Spirit says through his word?

here is what I actually said

you BADMOUTH the Holy Spirit

and you do over and over and over and no doubt unless a miracle occurs, will continue to do so

you are aware that this thread is about tongues? so the entire application of my post was to that topic

the rest is just you attempting to make a stink where none exists

 

[VARob]

So why then the Holy Spirit gave this gift in Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19?

To signify that the people had in fact been born again.

This was openly in public, so that they could praise the Lord.

Yes.

And there was no interpreter!

On the day of Pentecost, that was true. But we learn in 1 Corinthians that when a person speaks in tongues out loud, he should interpret.

Have this events nothing to do with the Gospel, that Jesus came for all?

Praising God, speaking the wonderful works of God, magnifying God, is just that. It is not teaching people how to get saved.

What are reasons for to magnify God, for to praise Him for to thank Him.

I'm not sure if that was a question or not...

The most worthful reason, is that he sent his son who paid for our sin at the cross.

Yes, that's the gospel, that is teaching people how to get born again. But when a person speaks in tongues, he is praising and thanking God. Praising and thanking God is not preaching the gospel.

And this has nothing to do with the gospel?

See above.

 

[SophieT]

So why then the Holy Spirit gave this gift in Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19? This was openly in public, so that they could praise the Lord.
And there was no interpreter!
Have this events nothing to do with the Gospel, that Jesus came for all?
What are reasons for to magnify God, for to praise Him for to thank Him.
The most worthful reason, is that he sent his son who paid for our sin at the cross.
And this has nothing to do with the gospel?

no one said the gospel is not THE most important topic

why are you attempting to make it look like someone did?

this is what you do. over and over and over

can you stick to what is actually true?

 

[Rhomphaeam]

not at all. you have a certain view which appears to contain the belief that you need to straighten everyone out because of your belief in Calvinism

Calvinism is not implicit in the topic of cessationism to anyone here save yourself and a few others which may or not show up

as to your silly remark that I slandered someone, well, I have called it silly and that it is. you are obviously not as discerning as you believe yourself to be

Then don't follow appearances because you may run after a dustcart believing that you are going to a wedding. And as to why connecting cessationist beliefs to the thread topic of speaking in tongues - that's real easy isn't it? Don't give me a liberty to express my own view and then take it back by a somewhat lame rebuke.

As to the slander - you did slander that brother - you said that he had a different spirit. So unless you were speaking about his fractious mind then you slandered him. Just as I slandered the author of this thread by speaking about another spirit. Of course what I intended was a suggestion to a false spirit working in her mind and she understood that well enough. So in saying that then I am either not in the Spirit to say it or else I am indeed a slanderer. The same applies to what you say. Only little children want to buy the wrong sweets and then cry when they find they have bought bitter almonds.

The below are your words and you say I am silly because I call it slander. I took the liberty of highlighting the only point that is worth noting in green. The rest is frankly insulting.

yeah actually we can compare it because it was the start of what we call the church

we could learn something from it also

PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!! the Holy Spirit was sent by God not so that little men can make statements to attempt to destroy that work (not gonna happen) . so why then was the Holy Spirit sent? so that everyone everywhere can speak in tongues?

NO!!!!!!

“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere — in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

but what do you do?

you BADMOUTH the Holy Spirit and tell people not to believe and you are in Germany so you spread that news from there to a different continent

my

interesting comparison between what Jesus said to do and the fact we NEED the Holy Spirit and what you actually do

your negative influence and constant griping are the opposite of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit leads us into truth but constantly lie and say He is done and basically can pack up and go back home

the fact that you (and several others here) are determined to prove the Holy Spirit a liar and men truthtellers, is alarming and significant. I question what spirit you operate out of

You slandered him because you even tell him that you doubt what spirit he operates out of. He is a born again believer and you do not have the authority to tell him that he is of another spirit unless the Lord has given you the authority to say it. Anymore than the sister who authored this thread had the authority to tell another believer that he needs to pray and make Christ his Saviour because he said he wasn't worthy to receive the gift of tongues. The same goes for every single one of us. But - little man - Badmouth - Constant Griping - Pay Attention you tell him. And you call that what? Motherly love I shouldn't wonder.

 

[SophieT]

Then don't follow appearances because you may run after a dustcart believing that you are going to a wedding. And as to why connecting cessationist beliefs to the thread topic of speaking in tongues - that's real easy isn't it? Don't give me a liberty to express my own view and then take it back by a somewhat lame rebuke.

As to the slander - you did slander that brother - you said that he had a different spirit. So unless you were speaking about his fractious mind then you slandered him. Just as I slandered the author of this thread by speaking about another spirit. Of course what I intended was a suggestion to a false spirit working in her mind and she understood that well enough. So in saying that then I am either not in the Spirit to say it or else I am indeed a slanderer. The same applies to what you say. Only little children want to buy the wrong sweets and then cry when they find they have bought bitter almonds.

The below are your words and you say I am silly because I call it slander. I took the liberty of highlighting the only point that is worth noting in green. The rest is frankly insulting.



You slandered him because you even tell him that you doubt what spirit he operates out of. He is a born again believer and you do not have the authority to tell him that he is of another spirit unless the Lord has given you the authority to say it. Anymore than the sister who authored this thread had the authority to tell another believer that he needs to pray and make Christ his Saviour because he said he wasn't worthy to receive the gift of tongues. The same goes for every single one of us. But - little man - Badmouth - Constant Griping - Pay Attention you tell him. And you call that what? Motherly love I shouldn't wonder.

you exaggerate.

all because I called you out on your Calvinism claims

your appeal to an audience here does not seem to be working

you should pay attention also

 

[CS1]

Then don't follow appearances because you may run after a dustcart believing that you are going to a wedding. And as to why connecting cessationist beliefs to the thread topic of speaking in tongues - that's real easy isn't it? Don't give me a liberty to express my own view and then take it back by a somewhat lame rebuke.

As to the slander - you did slander that brother - you said that he had a different spirit. So unless you were speaking about his fractious mind then you slandered him. Just as I slandered the author of this thread by speaking about another spirit. Of course what I intended was a suggestion to a false spirit working in her mind and she understood that well enough. So in saying that then I am either not in the Spirit to say it or else I am indeed a slanderer. The same applies to what you say. Only little children want to buy the wrong sweets and then cry when they find they have bought bitter almonds.

The below are your words and you say I am silly because I call it slander. I took the liberty of highlighting the only point that is worth noting in green. The rest is frankly insulting.



You slandered him because you even tell him that you doubt what spirit he operates out of. He is a born again believer and you do not have the authority to tell him that he is of another spirit unless the Lord has given you the authority to say it. Anymore than the sister who authored this thread had the authority to tell another believer that he needs to pray and make Christ his Saviour because he said he wasn't worthy to receive the gift of tongues. The same goes for every single one of us. But - little man - Badmouth - Constant Griping - Pay Attention you tell him. And you call that what? Motherly love I shouldn't wonder.

let us leave the Calvinist out of this

 

[Aidan1]

yeah actually we can compare it because it was the start of what we call the church

we could learn something from it also

PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!! the Holy Spirit was sent by God not so that little men can make statements to attempt to destroy that work (not gonna happen) . so why then was the Holy Spirit sent? so that everyone everywhere can speak in tongues?

NO!!!!!!

“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere — in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

but what do you do?

you BADMOUTH the Holy Spirit and tell people not to believe and you are in Germany so you spread that news from there to a different continent

my

interesting comparison between what Jesus said to do and the fact we NEED the Holy Spirit and what you actually do

your negative influence and constant griping are the opposite of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit leads us into truth but constantly lie and say He is done and basically can pack up and go back home

the fact that you (and several others here) are determined to prove the Holy Spirit a liar and men truthtellers, is alarming and significant. I question what spirit you operate out of[/QUOTE

here is what I actually said

you BADMOUTH the Holy Spirit

and you do over and over and over and no doubt unless a miracle occurs, will continue to do so

you are aware that this thread is about tongues? so the entire application of my post was to that topic

the rest is just you attempting to make a stink where none exists

Then maby you should read your post again!

 

[SophieT]

Then maby you should read your post again!

right. well then let's review it

first it was a response to this post of yours: post #133

"Aidan1, post: 4745043, member: 306010"]You cant compare the events in Acts with the church. All these Events happend without that there was a church.
And it is interesting that this "important" issue ( speaking in tongues as visible sign that someone has received the baptism in the Holy Spirit) nowhere is taught in the church. But all for the believers in the past and in the future important issues were taught to the believers in the letters we find in the bible.

here is what I said:

Yesterday at 10:29 AM
#223
Aidan1 said:
You cant compare the events in Acts with the church. All these Events happend without that there was a church.
And it is interesting that this "important" issue ( speaking in tongues as visible sign that someone has received the baptism in the Holy Spirit) nowhere is taught in the church. But all for the believers in the past and in the future important issues were taught to the believers in the letters we find in the bible.


yeah actually we can compare it because it was the start of what we call the church

we could learn something from it also

PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!! the Holy Spirit was sent by God not so that little men can make statements to attempt to destroy that work (not gonna happen) . so why then was the Holy Spirit sent? so that everyone everywhere can speak in tongues?

and why did I say this? you have said multiple times that the gift of tongues are made up, not real and serve no purpose (and I am not going looking for those comments in other threads because everyone here knows your line of response and that is what I am referring to) further I did not call you a little man...I referred to ALL little men who are against speaking in tongues

better yet, I pointed out that the reason the Holy Spirit was sent so that we could have power to live for Christ...not speak in tongues

but you and another person here, handily refuse to see this and offer ad hominin attacks and twist my words. see the scripture following for the truth of that statement.

“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere — in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8

but what do you do?

you BADMOUTH the Holy Spirit and tell people not to believe and you are in Germany so you spread that news from there to a different continent

my

interesting comparison between what Jesus said to do and the fact we NEED the Holy Spirit and what you actually do

and that is what you do. you have mocked, made derisive comments and continue to do so and then claim you did no such thing

your negative influence and constant griping are the opposite of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit leads us into truth but constantly lie and say He is done and basically can pack up and go back home

if you say speaking in tongues does not exist, that is a lie. people have responded to you probably hundreds of times in threads over the years (this is not your first membership here nor is it mine) and shown you with great patience in the scriptures the error of your understanding. you brush it off, ignore the scripture and continue with your constant anti-tongues rhetoric...you do not even address the scripture presented to you or if you do, you twist them to say something else

the fact that you (and several others here) are determined to prove the Holy Spirit a liar and men truthtellers, is alarming and significant. I question what spirit you operate out of

the Holy Spirit is to lead us into all truth. you do seem to want to prove we have not been led by the Holy Spirit and I do wonder why you continue on this way. so should you

I can quote from other threads if you don't remember...when I have time

 

[TheLearner]

You did not understand my post. A bunch of people in the local Church Body are not Speaking in Tongues and there is Interpretation. When Tongues and Interpretation happened in my experience, everyone becomes very quiet, more praying in their mind not audible. Just silent Worship. You can sense the Holy Spirit moving. You can sense the Importance of the Moment. And then it happens, one person Speaks in Tongues, and then it is followed by someone else speaking in English with the Interpretation.

If you have witnessed something else, you have witnessed something very wrong.

True that,

1. 1 Corinthians 14:26-27
   So, brothers and sisters, what should you do? When you meet together, one person has a song, another has a teaching, and another has a new truth from God. One person speaks in a different language, and another interprets that language. The purpose of whatever you do should be to help everyone grow stronger in faith.
   When you meet together, if anyone speaks to the group in a different language, it should be only two or no more than three people who do this. And they should speak one after the other. And someone else should interpret what they say.

 

[TheLearner]

You can't say that if you spoke in tongues and there was no interpretation, you shouldn't have spoke, because how would you know unless you spoke? Perhaps you made a mistake. Perhaps someone had the interpretation but chickened out.
No, you speak, believing there will be an interpretation. If there is no interpretation, then you don't continue. Otherwise, one might, due to doubt, be quiet in case there's no interpretation. You step forth in faith, taking a risk.
You don't want to be in unbelief, nor do you want to be careless. As you try to be led by the Spirit, you try to keep in mind what the word says. The word is to help, not hinder the operation of the gifts. It's not a law!
My old pastor used to say, "I bless you to make mistakes." That's how we learn.

Certain people have the gift of interpretation that is how one will know if there is someone there to interpret.
Or the Pastor or an elder could ask the group. Something I once witnessed was elders going to people to ask what their interpretation, statement or word to share before they were allowed to speak.