Tithe!

[Word_Swordsman]

Can you provide some scriptural evidence for this?

The OT tithe is actually a series of 3 tithes. The middle tithe calls for holy feast attendees to supply all sorts of food and drink for the entire population of feast-goers. If the jurney there was too long or cumbersome, then sell whatever you have to contribute, convert the tithe to money (coins), then deposit that in the treasury. Deuteronomy 14:24-26 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

They got to consume part of their tithes during the celebrations.

The third tithe was to supply the poor. They were given consecrated things in the homes, items set apart for clean uses, like silver utensils. Whatever was consecrated for holy use was eligible to be given.

The first tithe was 100% for the Levites, who then tithed that to the priesthood. Their tithe was split up into phases of food harvests, and times when wine was produced. The idea was to share some of everythng the earth yielded up in bounty. Please do your own homework. It's not all that hard to discover.

"ALL" the people in the land had to tithe. Would anyone assume all Israelites made their living from agriculture? Jesus' dad was a carpenter. Would you suppose he would have sold a chair for a bushel of wheat to carry to Jerusalem?

The Bible is vague concerning such details of life then, giving an overall instruction about tithing. That's why the rabbis studied and determined what was reasonable for everyone in the land (and those living outside Israel) to do concerning the tithe. You can find a lot of details in the various Talmud versions and other writings that gave the people specific guidance. The only income exemption I can find is operators of mills that ground the "corn".

I am not trying to push tithing. The Bible never condemns tithing, there being nothing evil in it. I tithe because it worked for Abraham, was received by the eternal priesthood centuries before commanded by God through Moses, of which priesthood Jesus is. No preacher has to draw it out of me. It's an eternal thing that has promises. The curses connected to the commanded tithe are removed in Christ. I have been tithing over half of my life, and know God has blessed us far beyond capacity to earn blessing. Not tithing is unthinkable for us, that being a pleasure to my wife and I, in addition to biblical giving as determined from my own heart, which sometimes has monetary blessing connected to that. God will at least repay gifts in some significant manner, so we contribute to some missionaries and other ministries besides our church.

I grew up when my grandparents rented apartments to Jews in the 1950's-1970's. As a child I found lots of ways to earn money working for them, learning from them. We never saw or even heard of a poor Jew, always paying rent on time, always living far better than the rest of us. They all came to America and started up businesses marketing various trades, and still do. None in my family were Christian, none Jew, but I learned how to prosper, and even tithed to their synagogue because that was a "secret" to their wealth building.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

"ALL" the people in the land had to tithe. Would anyone assume all Israelites made their living from agriculture? Jesus' dad was a carpenter. Would you suppose he would have sold a chair for a bushel of wheat to carry to Jerusalem?

This is what I was looking for evidence of. I'll spare you having to write so many words again. No evidence exists in the bible that anyone other than those who raised livestock and grew crops had to tithe. It would have been contrary to the law.

Laborers worked and were owed wages. What they earned belonged to them. It was the fruit of their labors.

Husbandmen labored and were owed nothing; their increase came from GOD. The tithe honored GOD for giving the increase, which was the fruit of his labor, and it belonged to him.

 

[Dan_473]

Hi Sir Dan,

This is to clarify why I still believe tithes should be done by Christians. I put the teaching of Scriptures in its entirety above men's opinion on this matter, hence, the Scriptures is the final authority of my faith and practice. Putting that into consideration, what the Bible says is very important and what counts. Here look, In Acts 2:42 was mentioned about the "apostles doctrine" meaning that which apostles taught. The "apostles doctrine" was true, not because an apostle taught it, but it was in consistent with the scriptures.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

We are told that the Bereans examined the teaching of the Apostle Paul in the light of the scriptures before accepting it.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Likewise, the Church of Ephesus examined some who called themselves Apostles and found them liars.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

So it is to be noted that Bereans used the Scriptures as the standard practice to know one's teaching is of God.

The so called "absence" of Apostolic command is not a fair reason to invalidate the teaching or principle of tithe as found in the NT. Granting the "store" is no link to "storehouse", I could still see no reason why a Christian would leave the principle of tithing. The mere "absence" reasoning would leave us stalemate because there's not even one specific Apostolic command or order to abolished tithe. The fact of the absence of order or command to abolished tithes is foreign in the N.T. teaching, the principles of Christ doctrine or in the Apostles doctrine.

The so called "absence" gets even unfair to Apostle Paul making him a Liar. In Acts 20:35 Paul stated and as Luke wrote that to "...remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said. It is more blessed to give than to receive." The quotation from Christ by Apostle Paul is nowhere to be found in the 4 Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). This does prove that Apostle Paul and writer Luke lying? A very certain answer is NO, your honor! If it is only basis "that these were no mentioned of the command from the Apostle" just to invalidate the tithe is far from the truth.

The principle of tithe was taught by Christ. Jesus taught even to the Pharissees yet not to leave the other weightier matters undone. But some will say Christ is teaching to the Pharisees and it is the tithe of mint? Well, we only limit our world that tithe is all about money. In the bible, spoils can be a source of tithe of Abraham, an animals, fruits or even vegetable.

Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Again Abraham did tithe not even a single command from God. The absence of God's command did not invalidate Abraham to practice tithe.

Tithe was commenced by Abraham, yes it was incorporated in the Law 500 years later thus it was commanded by Moses and it was commended by our Lord Jesus. Yes, there's nothing new about tithing, oftentimes, what's new is not true.

God bless

ok, so sounds like you weren't joking, then...

so, using the scriptures as the rule... I see that Jesus taught the pharisees to tithe... makes sense, they were living ot lives...

tithing is part of the law, imo... putting tassels on your clothes is also in the law...

I don't see in the nt that tithing is removed, but then, neither is the tassel law... I think only a tiny number of christians use the tassels... and I agree with this because we aren't under the law.

 

[Dan_473]

Hebrews 7 explains that Jesus, who is of that eternal priesthood by which Melchizedek collecting tithes from mortal men came, now receives tithes of mortal men for the use of mortal men preaching the gospel of Christ.

possibly... I don't understand how Jesus could receive tithes from us, when we already belong to him completely.

It is a false teaching that none of ancient Israel had to tithe unless a farmer. All "gain" was subject to the tithe. A silver mine owner was to tithe. So was a miner employee to tithe. A rocking chair maker was to tithe. An ancient real estate merchant was to tithe. A merchant marine shipper was to tithe. None were excluded.

which part of the ot are you looking at, there?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

This is what I was looking for evidence of. I'll spare you having to write so many words again. No evidence exists in the bible that anyone other than those who raised livestock and grew crops had to tithe. It would have been contrary to the law.

Laborers worked and were owed wages. What they earned belonged to them. It was the fruit of their labors.

Husbandmen labored and were owed nothing; their increase came from GOD. The tithe honored GOD for giving the increase, which was the fruit of his labor, and it belonged to him.

Hebrews 7. Why ignore that? I realize tithe-haters ignore it, but why here?

 

[Dan_473]

(I don't mean the following as any kind of criticism)

Jesus told the Pharisees to tithe... imo, those who today lean towards a Pharisee mindset, when they hear that teaching, it sounds right to their ears.

 

[Dan_473]

Don't you worry. As a member, I know...and of course, God does the multiplying.

the rest of us can't know... so like, when you say God multiplies, we don't know what the factor is... like, times 2? or times 10?

 

[Dan_473]

Then shalt thou turn it into money...

to me, the "it" refers to things from the field.

The third tithe was to supply the poor. They were given consecrated things in the homes, items set apart for clean uses, like silver utensils. Whatever was consecrated for holy use was eligible to be given.

where is this part? I'm interested...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hebrews 7. Why ignore that? I realize tithe-haters ignore it, but why here?

Abraham paid tithe on war booty, not earned income. None of it originally belonged to him either.

 

[fredoheaven]

ok, so sounds like you weren't joking, then...

so, using the scriptures as the rule... I see that Jesus taught the pharisees to tithe... makes sense, they were living ot lives...

tithing is part of the law, imo... putting tassels on your clothes is also in the law...

I don't see in the nt that tithing is removed, but then, neither is the tassel law... I think only a tiny number of christians use the tassels... and I agree with this because we aren't under the law.

Hi,

Thank you for opinion on this matter, I agree tithes gets into law, the once it's not in the Law. The Law of first mentioned says it predates the Law and I would not ride to the thinking on the principle of tithes is no longer for today.

God bless

 

[Euphemia]

the rest of us can't know... so like, when you say God multiplies, we don't know what the factor is... like, times 2? or times 10?

Often He multiplies any funds we use for His glory up to 100% times the amount put forward. the point is the tithes have the Lord's blessing and the dollar amount goes further to do what it is sent to do over any other funds put to that use. this is typical in all churches that appropriately administer the tithe.


.

 

[fredoheaven]

We are to ride donkeys and camels today. Just because there is no command in the NT doesn't mean we are not suppose to. Show me one verse that says that riding donkeys and camels has been replaced by better modes of transportation. I know. Kinda dumb analogy.

Thank you sir!

 

[Word_Swordsman]

(I don't mean the following as any kind of criticism)

Jesus told the Pharisees to tithe... imo, those who today lean towards a Pharisee mindset, when they hear that teaching, it sounds right to their ears.

He pointed out that they tithe herbs but ignore God. Of course the Pharisees had to tithe to look good, whether having an agri business or not. Jesus even paid the temple tax, too.

Enough of this dodging the heart of the matter!

I see you won't touch Hebrews 7. Too bad.

Maybe this will ring a bell. I've been posting it for years, but none dare answer it if hating the concept of tithing, and detesting the supporting of a local congregation and all it takes to accommodate them.

This is the word of God through the apostle Paul to the Church:

1 Corinthians 9:3-14 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Have we not power to eat and to drink?
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

"Even so" means "no less". In like manner, nothing lacking between the two.

How did Israel, of which Paul was, support the mortal priesthood? By tithes and offerings. Even so, the Christian ministry ought not suffer lack due to less than the old manner of support.

Men that died received tithes and offerings of the people. Now Jesus, High Priest of the eternal order, receives tithes "in the spirit", by the hands of his ministers just like the mortal High Priest of the earthly priesthood (of Aaron). The high principle is not how Jesus does that from Heaven, but whether the Church supports or neglects it's ministers at the altar.

Thinking an uncertain "freewill" offering for maintenance of the Church ministry will be sufficient is folly. Offerings are "icing on the cake", not expected as far as how much at year's end. A solid accountable support base based on a system at least as reliable as the tithe bring honor to God. Want to give more than 10% of gain? Commit it to the pastor. In writing. Apply a little faith, be blessed.

What we are seeing now is an ever growing long line of beggars of money to pay their bills, all of them steadfastly refusing to commit a living for their church ministers they enjoy services of. They are the ones that have been self deceived to be happy over putting two dollars in the weekly collection bag. None admit tithing. They are against that, yet persistently in financial peril. All. They are the ones asking "Why" this is happening to them. Why is my home being repossessed"? Why have I been laid off due to two plant closings in 2015? Why, why, why.....

The Jews returning from Babylonian captivity asked such questions of Malachi 3. God allowed Israel to dribble the ball right past him, going off into slavery. Is America doing the same?

If you can't commit to support a local church, it's doubtful you have yielded to serve Jesus. Hate me for saying that, or thank me. Do that before the Lord.

 

[Euphemia]

Careful... Euphemia called me a liar when I said that same thing earlier in this thread. (But I do agree with you.... I know we couldn't.)

I never did.

 

[Willie-T]

Our church would probably have to close its doors if we depended upon tithing. Only giving 10% would be a little embarrassing to most of our members. We have so few people that we would just barely stay operational if we expected tithing to carry us.

I don't believe that.

Careful... Euphemia called me a liar when I said that same thing earlier in this thread. (But I do agree with you.... I know we couldn't.)

I never did.

Don't compound it by lying about saying it.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

This is very simple.
Those with inheritance in the land give tithes to those without inheritance in the land (God being the inheritance of the priesthood). Even time is part of the inheritance in the land...so all are required to give 10% of whatever they have as inheritance in the land, if they are part of Israel, and not of the priests, and they give it to the priesthood who's lot was without access to the Holiest of All, which were those not allowed behind the veil. Then 10% of that was given from the priesthood without access behind the veil...to the priesthood with direct access to the Holiest of All.

We never see the high priesthood tithe to itself...and they do not have inheritance in the land, besides stewardship of what is the property of God.
Acts 4:31-33New King James Version (NKJV)

31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

Sharing in All Things
32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.
Numbers 18:19-21New King James Version (NKJV)

19 “All the heave offerings of the holy things, which the children of Israel offer to the Lord, I have given to you and your sons and daughters with you as an ordinance forever; it is a covenant of salt forever before the Lord with you and your descendants with you.”

20 Then the Lord said to Aaron: “You shall have no inheritance in their land, nor shall you have any portion among them; I am your portion and your inheritance among the children of Israel.

Tithes for Support of the Levites
21 “Behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tithes in Israel as an inheritance in return for the work which they perform, the work of the tabernacle of meeting.
2 Corinthians 8:8-17Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love. 9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

10 And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago. 11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have. 12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. 13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 14 but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: 15 as it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

16 But thanks be to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you. 17 For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own accord he went unto you.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

10 And herein I give my advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago. 11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have. 12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. 13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 14 but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: 15 as it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.16 But thanks be to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you. 17 For indeed he accepted the exhortation; but being more forward, of his own accord he went unto you.

That's another good support for going beyond what we are expected to do. The Macedonian churches called for Paul to receive their great offerings for Judeans in their well known troubles, though the churches were persecuted and driven into poverty by the Roman Empire in the short time before Jerusalem would be destroyed by Rome. Those Judeans were the other force of persecution scattering the Church into hiding many years. They gave beyond their means happily because they had given themselves wholly to the Lord, so were in great faith.

There ought not be such terror over and disrespect over any means God has ever sanctioned for men to be generous to the poor as well as maintain themselves by his bounty.

2 Corinthians 9:6-15 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

(Be happy to open the wallet without being compelled. The Holy Spirit residing in us, communing with our born again spiritman, will indicate how much to yield up. We recognize his words according to what the word of God confirms)

[SUP]8 [/SUP] And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

(When God finds such a giver he then is happy to make sure that person is equipped to contribute significantly to whatever word he drops into the heart. If what we want to give is based on anything else, then we are not wholly submitted to the Lord, doing what is right in our own eyes.)

[SUP]9 [/SUP] (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.

(Might it be a shame that some Christians fall short of the glory of ancient Israel which is recorded often as piling up hills of blessing out of their promised abundance?)

[SUP]12 [/SUP] For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

It's a huge blessing to know you have added significantly out of a pure heart to the supplying of fellow Christians and helped the poor. Those that take part rejoice.

Practical application: On the other end of biblical giving, those that put $5 in their wallet at home then put on a show dumping "all they have to give" when they could easily put in $100 without threatening their own responsibilities, will not legitimately rejoice because if Jesus is Lord and has spoken to give that greater amount generously, then we are disobedient. There will be no abundance from the Lord, not multiplying meager tips given in the spirit of Scrooge. If you are one of them, keep the $5. You'll be needing it for yourself. Avoid spoiling any blessings on your finances by pretending like Ananias and Sapphira did. Rather, pray before going out of the house, put the Lord's money in that wallet, then deliver it with great inner joy. Next, dig for more for a love offering above what is returned to the Lord. Then, treat a poor person to lunch, letting the rich brother do the same for the poor, not rich feeding rich as many do. Fear not, God will keep you if you do such things with a glad heart. It isn't something to "try out", but to obey over.

1 Samuel 15:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

 

[Dan_473]

Hi,

Thank you for opinion on this matter, I agree tithes gets into law, the once it's not in the Law. The Law of first mentioned says it predates the Law and I would not ride to the thinking on the principle of tithes is no longer for today.

God bless

the commandment to tithe is part of the law, imo... was there a giving of 10% prior to the law? sure... not as a response to a commandment, imo...

if someone wants to give 10%, that's fine... imo, considering 100% of our goods and ourselves as belonging to God is the nt pattern...

 

[Dan_473]

Hebrews 7. Why ignore that? I realize tithe-haters ignore it, but why here?

imo, the issue was about ancient israel.

 

[Dan_473]

Often He multiplies any funds we use for His glory up to 100% times the amount put forward. the point is the tithes have the Lord's blessing and the dollar amount goes further to do what it is sent to do over any other funds put to that use. this is typical in all churches that appropriately administer the tithe.


.

that's amazing... evidence of God doing miracles on a repeated basis of something we can track down is extremely rare these days, imo...

so, let's say the church recieves $10,000 per week in the offering plate... then we would find spending of $20,000 per week if we could look at the budget?