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How would a little lad carry twelve baskets? LoL
Just as one cannot outgive God, one also cannot change God's Word. It is for ever settled in Heaven.
If we are to believe the Bible, (and we should) the tithe is the LORD's. (Leviticus 27:30) However, it is a specific tithe (agricultural; Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteromony 14:22-27) for a specific people (sons of Levi, widows, orphans and strangers; Numbers 18:24-26; Deuteronomy 14:28-29) in a specific location (Canaan/Israel; Deuteronomy 6:1-3; 12:10-11) that the LORD said was His.
In light of what the Bible says concerning God's holy tithe, no Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, or Teacher (the five offices in Ephesians 4:11) has the right or authority to teach that God's holy tithe is, or should be, monetary.
Just as one cannot outgive God, one also cannot change God's Word. It is for ever settled in Heaven.
If we are to believe the Bible, (and we should) the tithe is the LORD's. (Leviticus 27:30) However, it is a specific tithe (agricultural; Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteromony 14:22-27) for a specific people (sons of Levi, widows, orphans and strangers; Numbers 18:24-26; Deuteronomy 14:28-29) in a specific location (Canaan/Israel; Deuteronomy 6:1-3; 12:10-11) that the LORD said was His.
In light of what the Bible says concerning God's holy tithe, no Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, or Teacher (the five offices in Ephesians 4:11) has the right or authority to teach that God's holy tithe is, or should be, monetary.
For the love of all that is monetary, could we PLEASE quit using Levitical law to "justify" tithing? The last time I checked, Levitical law went by the wayside about 2000 years ago. OR... if we're going to insist on keeping part of it, let's keep ALL of it. Women...at the end of each menstrual cycle, perform a ritual cleansing and present yourself to your pastor. Men... all of you who are uncircumcised....grit your teeth and get ready. Parents...you have a kid that doesn't mind? Bring them before the church to be stoned to death.. But wait... there's MORE!!!
The phrase 'you can't out give God' is a design to pilfer the the folk's wallets with the man invented modern tithe.
I know plenty of people down through the years that have out given God. But how can that be? Because the modern tithe is a lie of which neither testament can validate. It will put you under a curse. See: Galatians 3:10
There is no law commanding to give, stay with me, but there is the law of liberty that sets us free from the old covenant laws and ordinances.
Now we are set free by Christ to move and live and have our very being in Him. His laws are written on the fleshly tablets of our hearts, in our spirits.
We now follow the 'still small voice' of the Spirit in all matters of life including our giving.
We don't give to get. We obey His leading and He 'supplies the seed for the sower.' We are already blessed and being blessed by our faith and our obedience to Him. In a word, if we do things His way, not the man made church's way, all our needs are supplied and all our dustribution is directed by Him. I don't give a dime any direction unless He speaks to me to do so.
I gave a large sum to a gal on the street one time because I 'felt like it'. God spanked me good immediately saying 'I didn't tell you to do that'.
Another time I gave a sum to a precious Mexican family, this time, directed by the Holy Spirit. At a grocery store. I was walking to my car when I felt a pair of little arms go round my leg from behind. It was the smallest child of this family. Then the rest of the children followed him and they all started hugging on me. About 5 children. I looked beyond them and saw their father waving at me with a big smile on his face.
The Holy Spirit was thick and precious.
Thats the the kind of giving God wants done. He can use that to reach someone. He can't use faithful tithers in a church for nothing.
Tons of scripture in the old and the new talks about care for the poor. Most Christians can't afford to help the poor because of dumping their tithes into a offering plate shoved under their nose every Sunday morning. The loss of that money and a curse to boot, leaving many saints, not the rich saints, depressed, confused, and scared.
I know what I'm talking about.
I know plenty of people down through the years that have out given God. But how can that be? Because the modern tithe is a lie of which neither testament can validate. It will put you under a curse. See: Galatians 3:10
There is no law commanding to give, stay with me, but there is the law of liberty that sets us free from the old covenant laws and ordinances.
Now we are set free by Christ to move and live and have our very being in Him. His laws are written on the fleshly tablets of our hearts, in our spirits.
We now follow the 'still small voice' of the Spirit in all matters of life including our giving.
We don't give to get. We obey His leading and He 'supplies the seed for the sower.' We are already blessed and being blessed by our faith and our obedience to Him. In a word, if we do things His way, not the man made church's way, all our needs are supplied and all our dustribution is directed by Him. I don't give a dime any direction unless He speaks to me to do so.
I gave a large sum to a gal on the street one time because I 'felt like it'. God spanked me good immediately saying 'I didn't tell you to do that'.
Another time I gave a sum to a precious Mexican family, this time, directed by the Holy Spirit. At a grocery store. I was walking to my car when I felt a pair of little arms go round my leg from behind. It was the smallest child of this family. Then the rest of the children followed him and they all started hugging on me. About 5 children. I looked beyond them and saw their father waving at me with a big smile on his face.
The Holy Spirit was thick and precious.
Thats the the kind of giving God wants done. He can use that to reach someone. He can't use faithful tithers in a church for nothing.
Tons of scripture in the old and the new talks about care for the poor. Most Christians can't afford to help the poor because of dumping their tithes into a offering plate shoved under their nose every Sunday morning. The loss of that money and a curse to boot, leaving many saints, not the rich saints, depressed, confused, and scared.
I know what I'm talking about.
G
Now the million dollar question. How did you know that this was directed by the Holy Spirit before you gave it to them?
The first one you "felt" like you should give and it wasn't from God.
What clued you in that this time it was from the Spirit BEFORE you gave.
I think this is what is confusing Christians today. It is all about overt works. When the Christian way of life in this dispensation is invisible.
No one can see a husband loving his wife as Christ loves the church...........Spirit led works.
No one can see a wife respecting her husband even when he doesn't deserve it.........Spirit led works.
No one can see a believer that is positive to His word.............Spirit led works.
No one can see me feed the poor with self motivation or approbation lust...........human good.
Everyone can see me feed the poor and give to the poor.........no one knows if it was Spirit led. Only He and I know that.
The first one you "felt" like you should give and it wasn't from God.
What clued you in that this time it was from the Spirit BEFORE you gave.
I think this is what is confusing Christians today. It is all about overt works. When the Christian way of life in this dispensation is invisible.
No one can see a husband loving his wife as Christ loves the church...........Spirit led works.
No one can see a wife respecting her husband even when he doesn't deserve it.........Spirit led works.
No one can see a believer that is positive to His word.............Spirit led works.
No one can see me feed the poor with self motivation or approbation lust...........human good.
Everyone can see me feed the poor and give to the poor.........no one knows if it was Spirit led. Only He and I know that.
Here's your responses to me:
In the OT the tithe was about 28% of there income and possession. When you consider the first fruits and the sin offering and the Passover and the feast of of weeks and the tabernacles. Then , if you committed a sin then you had to give sacrifice. The temple was a bloody smoky sight. Thank God we can just give Him 10% of our money. Well it's money that He let us have.
Tithe in Hebrew means the tenth. As for you T/F questions most are true. However, have read about the little boy that gave the fish and bread and how it feed 5,000 men not counting women and children. God will bless the tithe. Guess who took home the 12 baskets of leftovers?
Already answered that. Answered what? I don't see an answers to my 8 T/F statements. I see you stating that most are true. Let's make it easier: since your opinion is that most are true, that means few are false. Which ones are false in your view? The T/F statements are numbered. Simply tell me the numbers of the statements that you view as false.
The tithe means the tenth. Is anyone disagreeing on this?
1. T/F - All tithes in O.T. times were brought to the storehouse.
2. T/F - Tithes were always delivered to the storehouse by the tither.
3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.
4. T/F - In O.T. times, Israelites were allowed to eat part of a tithe.
5. T/F - In O.T. times, one tithe was due on agriculture and livestock.
6. T/F - In O.T. times, the first of every 10 animals was part of a tithe. It was to be the finest and best of the flock.
7. T/F - In O.T. times, tithing was done on agriculture every year.
8. T/F - In O.T. times, the Israelites were encouraged to tithe on cash/coins/precious metals.
In the OT the tithe was about 28% of there income and possession. When you consider the first fruits and the sin offering and the Passover and the feast of of weeks and the tabernacles. Then , if you committed a sin then you had to give sacrifice. The temple was a bloody smoky sight. Thank God we can just give Him 10% of our money. Well it's money that He let us have.
Tithe in Hebrew means the tenth. As for you T/F questions most are true. However, have read about the little boy that gave the fish and bread and how it feed 5,000 men not counting women and children. God will bless the tithe. Guess who took home the 12 baskets of leftovers?
Already answered that. Answered what? I don't see an answers to my 8 T/F statements. I see you stating that most are true. Let's make it easier: since your opinion is that most are true, that means few are false. Which ones are false in your view? The T/F statements are numbered. Simply tell me the numbers of the statements that you view as false.
The tithe means the tenth. Is anyone disagreeing on this?
1. T/F - All tithes in O.T. times were brought to the storehouse.
2. T/F - Tithes were always delivered to the storehouse by the tither.
3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.
4. T/F - In O.T. times, Israelites were allowed to eat part of a tithe.
5. T/F - In O.T. times, one tithe was due on agriculture and livestock.
6. T/F - In O.T. times, the first of every 10 animals was part of a tithe. It was to be the finest and best of the flock.
7. T/F - In O.T. times, tithing was done on agriculture every year.
8. T/F - In O.T. times, the Israelites were encouraged to tithe on cash/coins/precious metals.
G
IMO, we need to discern. Is the teacher doing his job?
Our teacher doesn't council, doesn't set up bake sales,doesn't do weddings, doesn't visit the nursing homes, doesn't have 30 other ministries, doesn't set tables,doesn't stand at the door to greet, doesn't preach tithing so he doesn't have to work.
He studies and teaches. studies and teaches.studies and teaches. And He is a teacher with the gift, and we give so he can operate in his gift. He has even joked about putting a door right behind him, so when he is done teaching.............he just leaves.
And He constantly says," Here is the word, I will teach it to you, and here are many tools to prove me wrong. So prove me wrong."
Our teacher doesn't council, doesn't set up bake sales,doesn't do weddings, doesn't visit the nursing homes, doesn't have 30 other ministries, doesn't set tables,doesn't stand at the door to greet, doesn't preach tithing so he doesn't have to work.
He studies and teaches. studies and teaches.studies and teaches. And He is a teacher with the gift, and we give so he can operate in his gift. He has even joked about putting a door right behind him, so when he is done teaching.............he just leaves.
And He constantly says," Here is the word, I will teach it to you, and here are many tools to prove me wrong. So prove me wrong."
My guess is, they have been conditioned to believe the tithe is what God wants from them.
From the first chapter of my book, Will a Man Rob God?: Exposing a Serious Error Taught in the Modern Church...
Conditioned to Believe a Lie
Back in the 1970’s, I worked as an assistant animal trainer with a circus that traveled up and down the East Coast. It always amazed me to watch the elephants swaying back and forth under the sideshow tent. What was to prevent them from running out of the tent and trampling the crowds out on the midway? It was nothing more than a chain attached on one end to one of the elephant’s back legs and on the other end to a stake in the ground.
The adult elephants wore the same size chain as the young baby elephants and could have pulled the stakes out of the ground with ease. And yet, in my four years of working with the circus, not one of the adult elephants ever tried to escape the chain that could have easily been snapped should they give the slightest pull. Why did they not try to escape, you may ask?
Because they were conditioned to believe they could not escape… brainwashed, if you will into believing that the chain that bound their feet was stronger than they were.
There is a principle that says, “If you tell a lie often enough, people will begin to believe it to be true”. The elephant and his chain is a perfect example of that principle. The chain is put on an elephant when it is still very young. As a youth, the elephant is not as docile as the adult. It will often pull on the chain in an attempt to free itself, yet it is not quite strong enough to pull the stake out of the ground or to break the chain. Over a period of time, and after many failed attempts to free itself, the elephant resigns itself to bondage because he gives in to the thought that no matter what, he cannot free himself from that chain.
And so, though he may grow from an infant of one hundred-sixty-nine pounds to an adult of six tons, he believes that he can never be free from that chain. So it is with many who have been taught the monetary tithe requirement doctrine for years and years. They have been told the lie long enough that, like the elephant and his chain, they have been conditioned to believe that tithing of their money is a mandatory requirement handed down to the Church by God Himself. Many have heard the lie so often, that whenever it crosses their minds, (often during seasons of financial distress) they believe the Holy Spirit is telling them that they must tithe their money to the Church.
And yet, if the Christian would only pick up his or her Bible and study all instances of tithing in it, that Christian would find that God never authorized the Church to receive a monetary tithe from her members. The monetary tithe is a doctrine that was invented long after the last book of the Holy Bible was penned. The monetary tithe doctrine is an invention of man, not ordained or authorized by God at all.
The only Scriptural commands concerning tithing are found in the dispensation of the Mosaic Law. Those commands all show that the tithes that God required were agricultural in nature; i.e., crops, flocks and herds. (see Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteronomy 12:17; Deuteronomy 14:22-29; Deuteronomy 26:12; 2 Chronicles 31:5-6, 12; Malachi 3:7-11, Matthew 23:23 & Luke 11:42)
The only time in Scripture that God demanded tithes was during the dispensation of the Mosaic Law, and then it was only required of the children of Israel. No other nation was ever commanded by God to tithe in His Word. (see Leviticus 27:34; Numbers 18:24,26,28; Nehemiah 10:37-38; Hebrews 7:5-8 )
Pastors today have no Scriptural justification for preaching their flock must tithe their money to the Church. God never authorized such a doctrine in His Word. Pastors need to stick with what the Word of God says instead of teaching what it does not say. Many pastors teach the monetary tithe doctrine out of pure ignorance of what the Word of God actually says concerning tithing. They were, like their congregations, taught that God requires a tithe from the moment they were saved. They were conditioned to believe, and later preach, a lie.
Still other pastors know the truth about tithing, but because of a deceitful heart, they preach the lie out of greed and for self-gratification.
Saints, I encourage you to be as the Berean’s in Paul’s day. Don’t just accept the words being preached in the pulpit. Don’t just accept the lie that you have heard ever since you was a babe in Christ. Search the Scriptures daily to see if what your pastor is teaching or preaching, what you have been taught, is so. Compare the sermon with what the Word of God says. God’s Word is the only sound doctrine that is nourishment for your soul.
From the first chapter of my book, Will a Man Rob God?: Exposing a Serious Error Taught in the Modern Church...
Conditioned to Believe a Lie
Back in the 1970’s, I worked as an assistant animal trainer with a circus that traveled up and down the East Coast. It always amazed me to watch the elephants swaying back and forth under the sideshow tent. What was to prevent them from running out of the tent and trampling the crowds out on the midway? It was nothing more than a chain attached on one end to one of the elephant’s back legs and on the other end to a stake in the ground.
The adult elephants wore the same size chain as the young baby elephants and could have pulled the stakes out of the ground with ease. And yet, in my four years of working with the circus, not one of the adult elephants ever tried to escape the chain that could have easily been snapped should they give the slightest pull. Why did they not try to escape, you may ask?
Because they were conditioned to believe they could not escape… brainwashed, if you will into believing that the chain that bound their feet was stronger than they were.
There is a principle that says, “If you tell a lie often enough, people will begin to believe it to be true”. The elephant and his chain is a perfect example of that principle. The chain is put on an elephant when it is still very young. As a youth, the elephant is not as docile as the adult. It will often pull on the chain in an attempt to free itself, yet it is not quite strong enough to pull the stake out of the ground or to break the chain. Over a period of time, and after many failed attempts to free itself, the elephant resigns itself to bondage because he gives in to the thought that no matter what, he cannot free himself from that chain.
And so, though he may grow from an infant of one hundred-sixty-nine pounds to an adult of six tons, he believes that he can never be free from that chain. So it is with many who have been taught the monetary tithe requirement doctrine for years and years. They have been told the lie long enough that, like the elephant and his chain, they have been conditioned to believe that tithing of their money is a mandatory requirement handed down to the Church by God Himself. Many have heard the lie so often, that whenever it crosses their minds, (often during seasons of financial distress) they believe the Holy Spirit is telling them that they must tithe their money to the Church.
And yet, if the Christian would only pick up his or her Bible and study all instances of tithing in it, that Christian would find that God never authorized the Church to receive a monetary tithe from her members. The monetary tithe is a doctrine that was invented long after the last book of the Holy Bible was penned. The monetary tithe doctrine is an invention of man, not ordained or authorized by God at all.
The only Scriptural commands concerning tithing are found in the dispensation of the Mosaic Law. Those commands all show that the tithes that God required were agricultural in nature; i.e., crops, flocks and herds. (see Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteronomy 12:17; Deuteronomy 14:22-29; Deuteronomy 26:12; 2 Chronicles 31:5-6, 12; Malachi 3:7-11, Matthew 23:23 & Luke 11:42)
The only time in Scripture that God demanded tithes was during the dispensation of the Mosaic Law, and then it was only required of the children of Israel. No other nation was ever commanded by God to tithe in His Word. (see Leviticus 27:34; Numbers 18:24,26,28; Nehemiah 10:37-38; Hebrews 7:5-8 )
Pastors today have no Scriptural justification for preaching their flock must tithe their money to the Church. God never authorized such a doctrine in His Word. Pastors need to stick with what the Word of God says instead of teaching what it does not say. Many pastors teach the monetary tithe doctrine out of pure ignorance of what the Word of God actually says concerning tithing. They were, like their congregations, taught that God requires a tithe from the moment they were saved. They were conditioned to believe, and later preach, a lie.
Still other pastors know the truth about tithing, but because of a deceitful heart, they preach the lie out of greed and for self-gratification.
Saints, I encourage you to be as the Berean’s in Paul’s day. Don’t just accept the words being preached in the pulpit. Don’t just accept the lie that you have heard ever since you was a babe in Christ. Search the Scriptures daily to see if what your pastor is teaching or preaching, what you have been taught, is so. Compare the sermon with what the Word of God says. God’s Word is the only sound doctrine that is nourishment for your soul.
C
You get what you pay for. You would get someone who didn't go to seminary because they don't have any bills.
Since you wouldn't get someone from seminary, they would probably would have unsound and weird ideas about the essential beliefs about the Christian faith.
You would probably have to see him part time because he would be working and wouldn't have the time to work on his teachings, sermons, visit nursing homes, be on call, etc.
In the churches that I've been in, the ones that pay have a pastor who hands you a map and when you open the Bible, you aren't lost.
Since you wouldn't get someone from seminary, they would probably would have unsound and weird ideas about the essential beliefs about the Christian faith.
You would probably have to see him part time because he would be working and wouldn't have the time to work on his teachings, sermons, visit nursing homes, be on call, etc.
In the churches that I've been in, the ones that pay have a pastor who hands you a map and when you open the Bible, you aren't lost.
The NT does not endorse the modern salaried single pastor. Nor does it endorse lavish cathedrals and basilicas. (Church buildings.) The saints met from house to house. Acts 2:46 They shared the gospel with the people in the temple while it still stood. This was all new. A new covenant. The good news. The church building in Jerusalem was destroyed by the invading Roman army in 70 ad, fulfilling Christ's prophesy. Matt. 24:1-2
In any given home assembly, there was a plurality of pastors. All elders are pastors by the NT definition. Acts 20:28 and 1Peter 5:2
No one was to be elevated above any other member. Matt.20. and 1Peter 5:3.
All the pastors were to work secular jobs so as to have the finances to help the poor. Acts 20:33-35
In any given home assembly, there was a plurality of pastors. All elders are pastors by the NT definition. Acts 20:28 and 1Peter 5:2
No one was to be elevated above any other member. Matt.20. and 1Peter 5:3.
All the pastors were to work secular jobs so as to have the finances to help the poor. Acts 20:33-35
So, are you saying that anyone that hasn't been to a seminary will have weird and unsound doctrinal beliefs? What an elitist attitude that appears to be! Some of the greatest evangelists of all time have never set foot in any kind of seminary. But, for the sake of argument, let's say that Joe Pew-sitter is going to give the lesson (sermon) today in the assembly. Let's say he DOES say something that's perhaps a little "unsound"... or at least "controversial". What is the responsibility of the assembly? Of ALL believers? To simply take for face value whatever is spoken in the assembly? Didn't Paul himself stress that each believer is to test what is taught, against scripture, like the believers in Berea did?
And, if Joe Pew-sitter can't go to nursing homes, hospitals, etc.... is there scriptural evidence that this is supposed to be part of the job description? Actually, that is borderline UN-scriptural. Read James 5 "Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."
Please don't think I'm "anti paid preacher/minister".... but I think many churches have created a "job" for someone that is really not all that scriptural.... and have given that person WAY too much control over what happens in the church.
And, if Joe Pew-sitter can't go to nursing homes, hospitals, etc.... is there scriptural evidence that this is supposed to be part of the job description? Actually, that is borderline UN-scriptural. Read James 5 "Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."
Please don't think I'm "anti paid preacher/minister".... but I think many churches have created a "job" for someone that is really not all that scriptural.... and have given that person WAY too much control over what happens in the church.
G
There ya go. Our teacher went to seminary, But when he started to STUDY he had to throw most of the seminary stuff OUT. Because seminary is basically about changing personalities so the ignorant will listen,run a "business" to pay off loans, Stop doing certain things so you don't get in trouble, be liked by everybody(don't upset people) so you can have them do your will, and memorize scripture so you look spiritual.
But, what verse in the word tells us we need to go to seminary school? From what I have seen we learn from teachers with the gift of teaching.
But, what verse in the word tells us we need to go to seminary school? From what I have seen we learn from teachers with the gift of teaching.
