Three Questions for Calvinists

[The_Watchers_2017]

You're joking, right? You've got to be, so I'll take it that way.

And both are saying that for someone to have spiritual discernment, they must first become born-again. Natural unsaved man does not have it.

No, they do not have SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT, but Romans 1 makes it clear, God is Judging them NOT on SPIRITUAL DISCERNMENT, but the Fact, They DO KNOW Who God is, but Refuse to say He is God! That is why God said: So people are without excuse—

So, it is an actual WIN by us BOTH here, because, I will give you Spiritual Discernment all day long, but, I won't give you that they do not know God. You have to know Who God is or He won't be saying, "So people are without excuse—"

Yeah - typical reply for someone who has run out ways to retreat and has been silenced by their own error and folly. I've seen it all before.

I bet you have seen it, since Your own Pastor, would have taught you, the Art of deflection.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

God certainly has redeemed some out of every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue. But as I read the OT, it is the exception and not the rule for God to exercise mercy and not judgment to other nations.

If we take into consideration, that many of the peoples, God had Moses and Joshua destroy, the majority of them Represented Nephillim and Sin. So remove those, and now, God, is not so removed from being Merciful to the other Nations. Really can see this several ways here, actually, and unfortunately.

 

[Cameron143]

If we take into consideration, that many of the peoples, God had Moses and Joshua destroy, the majority of them Represented Nephillim and Sin. So remove those, and now, God, is not so removed from being Merciful to the other Nations. Really can see this several ways here, actually, and unfortunately.

God's people were seldom less sinful than those nations. Often they mixed with others groups and forsook Him. He still exercised mercy towards them.

 

[Mem]

God's people were seldom less sinful than those nations. Often they mixed with others groups and forsook Him. He still exercised mercy towards them.

Didn't He ultimately cut them off?

 

[Cameron143]

Didn't He ultimately cut them off?

He did. But He is still keeping His promise to Abraham. And He hasn't cut them off forever.

 

[Snacker]

Incorrect.

[Jhn 6:44 KJV] 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Christ’s death and resurrection was designed to draw everyone to Christ. You’re the type of person who’s going to be angry seeing so many non-elect in heaven.

 

[HeIsHere]

He did. But He is still keeping His promise to Abraham. And He hasn't cut them off forever.

Their role/job has been completed.
All the promises have been fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

 

[HeIsHere]

Christ’s death and resurrection was designed to draw everyone to Christ. You’re the type of person who’s going to be angry seeing so many non-elect in heaven.

With regards to Ephesians 1: 4 here it the correct (de-Calvinized) interpretation.

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

Coach Hobbs is in a league where he invites who ever wants to play football to join his team voluntarily. However, one thing they both have in common is that prior to the teams being formed both coaches had predetermined to conform their team members into well conditioned and trained football players.

Coach Calvin is in a league where he pre-selects and compels each player to be on his team.

Calvinists insist Ephesians 1 teaches that God is like “Coach Calvin” but all the text actually states is what the coach has predetermined for his team to become, it says nothing about his predetermining who would and would not be on the team (i.e. “in Him”).

(Analogy by Mr. Flowers)

 

[rogerg]

Christ’s death and resurrection was designed to draw everyone to Christ. You’re the type of person who’s going to be angry seeing so many non-elect in heaven.

No.

Do you see the "I will raise him up at the last day" part? That means only those whom God intends to raise up will be those who become drawn and come to Christ - not everyone will be. The verse is self-limiting as to whom it is referring to. Do you think that everyone will be saved? If not, then you agree that not everyone will be drawn to Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

Their role/job has been completed.
All the promises have been fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

Okay. And which part of what I wrote is incorrect?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

With regards to Ephesians 1: 4 here it the correct (de-Calvinized) interpretation.

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

Coach Hobbs is in a league where he invites who ever wants to play football to join his team voluntarily. However, one thing they both have in common is that prior to the teams being formed both coaches had predetermined to conform their team members into well conditioned and trained football players.

Coach Calvin is in a league where he pre-selects and compels each player to be on his team.

Calvinists insist Ephesians 1 teaches that God is like “Coach Calvin” but all the text actually states is what the coach has predetermined for his team to become, it says nothing about his predetermining who would and would not be on the team (i.e. “in Him”).

(Analogy by Mr. Flowers)

You do REALIZE Ephesians 1:4 is actually only telling us the Plan here, this is all predestined to be done through Jesus. It's talking about HOW GOD CHOSE to MAKE us SAVED, through, Jesus.

You turned this Verse into the person being SAVED by Predestination hahahahahahahahaha
NO, it is talking about the PLAN to go through JESUS for SALVATION was PLANNED/PREDESTINED for us, or anyone who eventually COMES to God!

WOW
WOW
WOW

Yeah, I did almost forget how my ex-Southern Baptist Pastor would spin this.

I also remember, we were almost excommunicated, when my Dad, brought up this speaks about God's Plan was predestined, not that we individually are predestined!

My ex-Pastor hated when he was ever proven wrong.
Oh well, I am positive he is quite used to it by now

 

[Cameron143]

With regards to Ephesians 1: 4 here it the correct (de-Calvinized) interpretation.

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

Coach Hobbs is in a league where he invites who ever wants to play football to join his team voluntarily. However, one thing they both have in common is that prior to the teams being formed both coaches had predetermined to conform their team members into well conditioned and trained football players.

Coach Calvin is in a league where he pre-selects and compels each player to be on his team.

Calvinists insist Ephesians 1 teaches that God is like “Coach Calvin” but all the text actually states is what the coach has predetermined for his team to become, it says nothing about his predetermining who would and would not be on the team (i.e. “in Him”).

(Analogy by Mr. Flowers)

Chosen "in Him" is significantly different than chosen. You what it means to be in Christ. Forget about Calvin. Let scripture say as it does. The same Bible that has John 3:16 contains also Ephesians 1:4. Work them both out.

 

[HeIsHere]

You do REALIZE Ephesians 1:4 is actually only telling us the Plan here, this is all predestined to be done through Jesus. It's talking about HOW GOD CHOSE to MAKE us SAVED, through, Jesus.

You turned this Verse into the person being SAVED by Predestination hahahahahahahahaha
NO, it is talking about the PLAN to go through JESUS for SALVATION was PLANNED/PREDESTINED for us, or anyone who eventually COMES to God!

WOW
WOW
WOW

Yeah, I did almost forget how my ex-Southern Baptist Pastor would spin this.

I also remember, we were almost excommunicated, when my Dad, brought up this speaks about God's Plan was predestined, not that we individually are predestined!

My ex-Pastor hated when he was ever proven wrong.
Oh well, I am positive he is quite used to it by now

I agree with you.

It was the plan that was predestined and in that plan we will be holy and blameless because of Christ Jesus.

 

[HeIsHere]

Okay. And which part of what I wrote is incorrect?

Not sure it was incorrect, just that I think the role of Jews in the redemption plan of mankind has been completed.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I agree with you.

It was the plan that was predestined and in that plan we will be holy and blameless because of Christ Jesus.

Amen!

 

[Snacker]

No.

Do you see the "I will raise him up at the last day" part? That means only those whom God intends to raise up will be those who become drawn and come to Christ - not everyone will be. The verse is self-limiting as to whom it is referring to. Do you think that everyone will be saved? If not, then you agree that not everyone will be drawn to Christ.

No one says everyone will be raised but only those who placed their faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[HeIsHere]

Chosen "in Him" is significantly different than chosen. You what it means to be in Christ. Forget about Calvin. Let scripture say as it does. The same Bible that has John 3:16 contains also Ephesians 1:4. Work them both out.

I have worked them out. I think scripture is consistent.

It was God's plan from before the foundation of the world: to justify, sanctify, and glorify all those who would be in Christ through faith, not that He specifically chose those who would be in Him, that contradicts all of scripture.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I have worked them out. I think scripture is consistent.

It was God's plan from before the foundation of the world: to justify, sanctify, and glorify all those who would be in Christ through faith, not that He specifically chose those who would be in Him, that contradicts all of scripture.

Could not have explained this better myself!
Awesome Post!

 

[Magenta]

No one says everyone will be raised but only those who placed their faith in Jesus Christ.

Well, all will be raised, but only those who by grace through faith in Christ's shed righteous blood are
raised to life; the rest are raised to the resurrection of judgment, and then suffer the second death.

From 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

 

[HeIsHere]

and then suffer the second death.

And the question remains what is the second death?