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First, I would say that because we consider our own lives and selves and relate "them" to Scripture . . . it is only natural. I don't think that it is wise, but I find myself doing it. I can't help it and thus understand when others do it, too. For example, prior to being Transformed by Christ, I used to call myself a Christian, even though I was a raging alcoholic, had a hardcore sexual addiction problem, lying problem, etc . . . and so I looked at Scritpures such as:
Romans 8:38 NLT - "And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love."
Even though I was a total "dog," I still believed that I was secure in Christ even though I was totally out of control. So verses like:
2 Peter 1:5-7 NLT - "In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God's promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient endurance, and patient endurance with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone."
Yeah, I didn't resemble the above at all. In fact, as a member of the worship team of one particular church, I'd even show up and "perform" intoxicated. I was a real piece of work. BUT . . . I was still a True Christian.
No, I wasn't. After having felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God to the point where His Indwelling Presence nearly killed me (and my life began to change outside of my choice and ability), that's when I realized how self-deceived I was. I TRULY believed that I was saved . . . but once I was Baptized by the Holy Spirit and had the Curse of the Lord lifted from my heart (so that I could finally obey), the Truth about myself became fully known.
So, even still, I now look at my own life and am able to see that the Word of God is True.
Romans 2:27-29 NLT - "In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it. For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."
True change of Heart comes by way of the Spirit for all people . . . this is the essence of the Blessings promised and given to Abraham. Circumcision of the Heart is the primary evidence that one has for themselves to be able to determine if they are Truly Saved. When a person goes from being under the Curse, to being alleviated of the Curse, NOW a person has a Romans 12:2 Transformation story to tell.
The question is . . . do "you" have a Transformation story to tell?
Ahhh . . . the Remnant is very, very small.
Romans 8:38 NLT - "And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love."
Even though I was a total "dog," I still believed that I was secure in Christ even though I was totally out of control. So verses like:
2 Peter 1:5-7 NLT - "In view of all this, make every effort to respond to God's promises. Supplement your faith with a generous provision of moral excellence, and moral excellence with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with patient endurance, and patient endurance with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love for everyone."
Yeah, I didn't resemble the above at all. In fact, as a member of the worship team of one particular church, I'd even show up and "perform" intoxicated. I was a real piece of work. BUT . . . I was still a True Christian.
No, I wasn't. After having felt the Raw, Almighty Power of God to the point where His Indwelling Presence nearly killed me (and my life began to change outside of my choice and ability), that's when I realized how self-deceived I was. I TRULY believed that I was saved . . . but once I was Baptized by the Holy Spirit and had the Curse of the Lord lifted from my heart (so that I could finally obey), the Truth about myself became fully known.
So, even still, I now look at my own life and am able to see that the Word of God is True.
Romans 2:27-29 NLT - "In fact, uncircumcised Gentiles who keep God's law will condemn you Jews who are circumcised and possess God's law but don't obey it. For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision. No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people."
True change of Heart comes by way of the Spirit for all people . . . this is the essence of the Blessings promised and given to Abraham. Circumcision of the Heart is the primary evidence that one has for themselves to be able to determine if they are Truly Saved. When a person goes from being under the Curse, to being alleviated of the Curse, NOW a person has a Romans 12:2 Transformation story to tell.
The question is . . . do "you" have a Transformation story to tell?
Ahhh . . . the Remnant is very, very small.
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yes again attitudes like that is exactly why there’s so much arguing here. No ones attacking you my point was when you use terms like Pathetic of others and say things like “ lower case c”
that’s why people take offense and it feeds arguing I’ve never seen you attacked in this forum and I’ve seen you claim your being attacked ten times or more it’s your perception that you think. You are an “ Upper case” Christian and everyone else is attacking you and see pathetic
my only point was that’s part of the reason there’s constant arguing not you but that same attitude of seeing ones self up high and others down low it is always going to cause insult and misperception and arguing.
you are t attacked here a lot of people don’t agree with you but tha is true of just about anyone here some agree some don’t very few “ attack” anyone but a few are in thier mjndd “ always ek f attacked because “they speak truth and no one else does “ there real Christian and anyone who doesn’t agree with what they say they aren’t “ real Christians “
it’s the attitude and intent in us that causes a lot of this along with our perception of victimhood me and high mindedness
that’s why people take offense and it feeds arguing I’ve never seen you attacked in this forum and I’ve seen you claim your being attacked ten times or more it’s your perception that you think. You are an “ Upper case” Christian and everyone else is attacking you and see pathetic
my only point was that’s part of the reason there’s constant arguing not you but that same attitude of seeing ones self up high and others down low it is always going to cause insult and misperception and arguing.
you are t attacked here a lot of people don’t agree with you but tha is true of just about anyone here some agree some don’t very few “ attack” anyone but a few are in thier mjndd “ always ek f attacked because “they speak truth and no one else does “ there real Christian and anyone who doesn’t agree with what they say they aren’t “ real Christians “
it’s the attitude and intent in us that causes a lot of this along with our perception of victimhood me and high mindedness
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Bible discussion forums attract people who know a lot about the Bible and have strong opinions about their unchanging beliefs. Discussions usually devolve into debates as a result and debates sometimes turn into fights. I think at some point we need to make sure that when things get personal we continually take the high road and not allow a discussion to escalate to sinful fighting.
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So any time that you express an opinion contrary to that of another person, and they feel offended by it, they can rightly call you a 'lower-case-c christian'.
The sword cuts both ways, dude. You certainly aren't innocent, and the sooner you grasp that, the sooner this foolish line of accusation will end.
The sword cuts both ways, dude. You certainly aren't innocent, and the sooner you grasp that, the sooner this foolish line of accusation will end.
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Agreed. Just today I had to tell someone three times to stop harassing me. "He" told me to go ahead and Block him. Only a person who is persistent in continuing to belittle would ever say such a thing (instead of apologizing and trying to correct the perceived problem).
It is really unbelievable how, when asking people to stop bothering you, they remain persistent in their approach. It is truly unbelievable how people will actually fight for their right to intend to cause emotional damage.
It is really unbelievable how, when asking people to stop bothering you, they remain persistent in their approach. It is truly unbelievable how people will actually fight for their right to intend to cause emotional damage.
I know of whom you speak. You must understand of that person, that they reserve the right to do the very things that allow them to pronounce anyone else doing the same, that the other is surely not a Christian. He has explicitly said so. Pointing out such double standards and blatant hypocrisy to him only seems to goad him to worse behavior. Neither is it beneath him to give phony apologies that are simply a front for further offense.
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Seriously, some attitudes here are out of control from God.
We are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
To me this doesn't mean we are to be people that bow down to the will of man ,believe and hang on to everything said as though they dripped from the mouth of God.
We only OWE one another LOVE , and to me respect of another is gained through their knowledge ( information),( understanding ( how to apply knowledge) and last wisdom ( knowing exactly whe , where and whom to apply or share the word with),which shows our MATURITY in our relationship to God!
We are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
To me this doesn't mean we are to be people that bow down to the will of man ,believe and hang on to everything said as though they dripped from the mouth of God.
We only OWE one another LOVE , and to me respect of another is gained through their knowledge ( information),( understanding ( how to apply knowledge) and last wisdom ( knowing exactly whe , where and whom to apply or share the word with),which shows our MATURITY in our relationship to God!
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I see. Well, my life has been under the control of the Holy Spirit since I was a little boy. I'm not saying that I was saved all those years, that didn't happen until about six years ago. But what I am saying is that my circumstances have been controlled and the minds of others have been under His control so that I would be dealt with in a specific way. I have been Enduring throughout my entire life. I have been TRYING to be in control of my life, but I haven't been able to accomplish this. There is no doubt that the Lord has an Eternal Plan and that I am a part of that Plan . . . my life is evidence of this. I would say that you, too, are a part of that Plan, but I realize that you see things a different way. I get it.
I am a Gentile and I am a part of the "Church."
Ephesians 3:8-11 NLT - "Though I am the least deserving of all God's people, he graciously gave me the privilege of telling the Gentiles about the endless treasures available to them in Christ. I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning. God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."
Just as the circumstances of owls and falcons are determined, how much more are those circumstances determined for us as well?
Isaiah 34:15-17 NIV - "The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together. He allots their portions; his hand distributes them by measure. They will possess it forever and dwell there from generation to generation."
And sparrows? Are we not more important than sparrows?
Matthew 10:28-31 NIV - "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father's care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."
I guess I relate to these passages above. They help me to understand why my life has been as it has been. And if you're interested in reading another great story, read below. It's unbelievable.
2 Samuel 16:5-12 NKJV - "Now when King David came to Bahurim, there was a man from the family of the house of Saul, whose name was Shimei the son of Gera, coming from there. He came out, cursing continuously as he came. And he threw stones at David and at all the servants of King David. And all the people and all the mighty men were on his right hand and on his left. Also Shimei said thus when he cursed: "Come out! Come out! You bloodthirsty man, you rogue! "The LORD has brought upon you all the blood of the house of Saul, in whose place you have reigned; and the LORD has delivered the kingdom into the hand of Absalom your son. So now you are caught in your own evil, because you are a bloodthirsty man!" Then Abishai the son of Zeruiah said to the king, "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Please, let me go over and take off his head!" But the king said, "What have I to do with you, you sons of Zeruiah? So let him curse, because the LORD has said to him, 'Curse David.' Who then shall say, 'Why have you done so?' " And David said to Abishai and all his servants, "See how my son who came from my own body seeks my life. How much more now may this Benjamite? Let him alone, and let him curse; for so the LORD has ordered him. "It may be that the LORD will look on my affliction, and that the LORD will repay me with good for his cursing this day."
I am a Gentile and I am a part of the "Church."
Ephesians 3:8-11 NLT - "Though I am the least deserving of all God's people, he graciously gave me the privilege of telling the Gentiles about the endless treasures available to them in Christ. I was chosen to explain to everyone this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning. God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was his eternal plan, which he carried out through Christ Jesus our Lord."
Just as the circumstances of owls and falcons are determined, how much more are those circumstances determined for us as well?
Isaiah 34:15-17 NIV - "The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together. He allots their portions; his hand distributes them by measure. They will possess it forever and dwell there from generation to generation."
And sparrows? Are we not more important than sparrows?
Matthew 10:28-31 NIV - "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father's care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."
I guess I relate to these passages above. They help me to understand why my life has been as it has been. And if you're interested in reading another great story, read below. It's unbelievable.
2 Samuel 16:5-12 NKJV - "Now when King David came to Bahurim, there was a man from the family of the house of Saul, whose name was Shimei the son of Gera, coming from there. He came out, cursing continuously as he came. And he threw stones at David and at all the servants of King David. And all the people and all the mighty men were on his right hand and on his left. Also Shimei said thus when he cursed: "Come out! Come out! You bloodthirsty man, you rogue! "The LORD has brought upon you all the blood of the house of Saul, in whose place you have reigned; and the LORD has delivered the kingdom into the hand of Absalom your son. So now you are caught in your own evil, because you are a bloodthirsty man!" Then Abishai the son of Zeruiah said to the king, "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Please, let me go over and take off his head!" But the king said, "What have I to do with you, you sons of Zeruiah? So let him curse, because the LORD has said to him, 'Curse David.' Who then shall say, 'Why have you done so?' " And David said to Abishai and all his servants, "See how my son who came from my own body seeks my life. How much more now may this Benjamite? Let him alone, and let him curse; for so the LORD has ordered him. "It may be that the LORD will look on my affliction, and that the LORD will repay me with good for his cursing this day."
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I think I understand. As for me, anyone is welcome to say that I'm not a Christian. That's the kind of thing that used to really, really make me angry. 25 years ago I essentially ended a relationship with someone who told me that I was apostate . . . he was right, though. He was right about everything he told me. And in hindsight, I proved it by kicking him out of my life through sheer anger. If I'm lucky, and if I can start making REALLY good money soon, I hope to be able to help support him financially each month. He is one whom the Lord Loves, proven by how he has always be of the "poor and oppressed." I hope that the Lord will open things up for me so that I can help him!
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K
Listen, I will admit I thought I was a Christian when I came here several years ago. But it only took me a short time to realize I wasn't elected, I wasn't sinless, I was demon possessed ( Pentecostal), I was too direct, I spell things wrong, I'm too sensitive/ direct. I believe in the rapture (how dare I?). I was self righteous because I said I was in ministry. I wasn't doing enough so I needed to go and preach. No, I cannot preach, I'm a female. I'm an idol worshipper because I have a Christmas tree (it's over 7ft so big sinner here). Apparently I'm part of some powerful group here that make people afraid of me (so I was told). So long story short, I found out I'm not a Christian. The only problem now is the OSAS folk won't tell me how I get elected. The pre- trip, mid-trib, after trib crowd is squirrelly, can't get a dang thing out of them. I don't know if I should get rebaptised or who's name to do it in. Oh brother let me tell ya, I'm a mess, pray for me.
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