Things that need to be believed for salvation
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It is clear that one's foundation is definitely key to Jesus' rejection of the people seen in the 24th verse of the referenced scripture. However, nothing those questioning Jesus' rejection said had anything to do with obedience to the necessary foundational components outlined for all in Acts; belief, repentance, water baptism or receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Prophesying, casting out devils and doing many wonderful works are things one does to draw others to Jesus, they are not part of laying the foundation.
Matt 7:22-24
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"
Prophesying, casting out devils and doing many wonderful works are things one does to draw others to Jesus, they are not part of laying the foundation.
Matt 7:22-24
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:"
L
I think there is a telling in the Bible,
It has often thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, take pity on us and help us!” And Jesus said to him, “ ‘If You can?’ All things are possible to him who believes.” Immediately the boy’s father cried out and said, “I do believe; help my unbelief.”
Mark 9:22-24 NASB
The three words here that really stand out is the very truth the man's condition. "Help my unbelief" this is a powerful truth. He was full of doubt and unbelief and confessed it with a desperate plea for mercy. Jesus granted mercy, and gave belief to a man who was having trouble believing.
How great is the wondrous mercy of our Lord? So much that he gives belief to those who aren't able.
It has often thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, take pity on us and help us!” And Jesus said to him, “ ‘If You can?’ All things are possible to him who believes.” Immediately the boy’s father cried out and said, “I do believe; help my unbelief.”
Mark 9:22-24 NASB
The three words here that really stand out is the very truth the man's condition. "Help my unbelief" this is a powerful truth. He was full of doubt and unbelief and confessed it with a desperate plea for mercy. Jesus granted mercy, and gave belief to a man who was having trouble believing.
How great is the wondrous mercy of our Lord? So much that he gives belief to those who aren't able.
7
Well, you must be a oneness pentecostal trying to promote one must be water baptized to be saved. Now, you said this, "Why would Peter state that Cornelius and others, who had already received the Holy Ghost, needed to be water baptized if it was not a part of salvation?:"
"IF" as the text of Scripture clearly states and AS you say that "Cornelius and others, WHO HAD ALREADY RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST,"
Here is my question? SINCE they had received the Holy Spirit "FIRST" and they were not water baptized are the believers saved or not saved if they did not get water baptized? My point is the fact that in life a person can still believe in Jesus Christ for salvation and yet are unable to be water baptized. So according to you would Jesus reject their confession of faith because they were unable to get water baptized.
And yes, I know what Peter said at Acts 2:38 but here in Acts 10:44-48 you have a model in which "appears" to contradict Acts 2:38. You also brought up Acts 11:14-16 and apparently you did not notice what vs14, "and he shall SPEAK WORDS to you by which you will be SAVED, you and all your household." Then at vs15, "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them JUST AS HE DID UPON US AT THE BEGINNING." Vs16, "And I remembered the word of the Lord how He use to say, "John baptized with water but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
Again, saved first and then water baptized, that's the order. So, how do you reconcile what the Scriptures clearly teach with your oneness understanding which contradicts the scriptures? And what about the thief on the cross that repented for his deeds and Jesus told him that he would be in Paradise with Him? He (obviously) did not get water baptized? And please, spare me the lame excuse that the thief was in the old covenant so it don't count.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
"IF" as the text of Scripture clearly states and AS you say that "Cornelius and others, WHO HAD ALREADY RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST,"
Here is my question? SINCE they had received the Holy Spirit "FIRST" and they were not water baptized are the believers saved or not saved if they did not get water baptized? My point is the fact that in life a person can still believe in Jesus Christ for salvation and yet are unable to be water baptized. So according to you would Jesus reject their confession of faith because they were unable to get water baptized.
And yes, I know what Peter said at Acts 2:38 but here in Acts 10:44-48 you have a model in which "appears" to contradict Acts 2:38. You also brought up Acts 11:14-16 and apparently you did not notice what vs14, "and he shall SPEAK WORDS to you by which you will be SAVED, you and all your household." Then at vs15, "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them JUST AS HE DID UPON US AT THE BEGINNING." Vs16, "And I remembered the word of the Lord how He use to say, "John baptized with water but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
Again, saved first and then water baptized, that's the order. So, how do you reconcile what the Scriptures clearly teach with your oneness understanding which contradicts the scriptures? And what about the thief on the cross that repented for his deeds and Jesus told him that he would be in Paradise with Him? He (obviously) did not get water baptized? And please, spare me the lame excuse that the thief was in the old covenant so it don't count.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
gets tricky when you try to create your own gospel
gets tricky when you try to create your own gospel
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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7
There is nothing tricky about the gospel as presented by the Apostle Paul at 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. So, if someone ask you what the gospel is and you quoted these verses I assume you would add to these words and tell them they must be water baptized as well huh?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
oh no. another one so busy trying to put everyone in their place he does not understand what I wrote
bluto bluted out the opposite. yah wanna meet outside for some fistacuffs?
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L
oh no. another one so busy trying to put everyone in their place he does not understand what I wrote
bluto bluted out the opposite. yah wanna meet outside for some fistacuffs?
bluto bluted out the opposite. yah wanna meet outside for some fistacuffs?
So much is lost when reading text, with out context.
I think he is trying to put people in their place as much as he is trying to defend the Gospel.
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you are wrong bluto
I was agreeing with the bolded part of your post where I responded
these days I am asking for apologies
but not holding my breath
you basically shot yourself in the tootsie
I was agreeing with the bolded part of your post where I responded
these days I am asking for apologies
but not holding my breath
you basically shot yourself in the tootsie
" Since it was directed to me I took it in a negative way. Next time it would be nice if you were more clear with your statments. And I do apologize if what you said was directed to wansvic and not me. No need to "gloat" about an honest mistake. IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
The obedience that is necessary is choosing to place belief in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) which brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). Receiving water baptism (in Jesus name only) in order to obtain the remission of sins (dipped or condemned) with the evidence of speaking in tongues (no tongues, no Holy Spirit) may be the necessary foundational components of the perverted gospel of the Oneness Pentecostal church, but are not necessary components for salvation outlined for all in the book of Acts.
1 Corinthians 3:11 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF IS THE FOUNDATION AND NOT WATER BAPTISM, SPEAKING IN TONGUES OR WORKS IN GENERAL. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
I see that everything I explained to you in post #40 just went right over your head.
As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works through your components. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.
Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" setting out to do things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone as evidenced by authentic Christianity. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness as evidenced by false religions and cults.
*Only those who truly believe in Christ are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus, perverts the gospel and acts on their own self-righteous works system and confuses that with properly hearing and doing/acting on the words of Jesus.
1 Corinthians 3:11 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF IS THE FOUNDATION AND NOT WATER BAPTISM, SPEAKING IN TONGUES OR WORKS IN GENERAL. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
I see that everything I explained to you in post #40 just went right over your head.
As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works through your components. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.
Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" setting out to do things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone as evidenced by authentic Christianity. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness as evidenced by false religions and cults.
*Only those who truly believe in Christ are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus, perverts the gospel and acts on their own self-righteous works system and confuses that with properly hearing and doing/acting on the words of Jesus.
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The obedience that is necessary is choosing to place belief in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) which brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). Receiving water baptism (in Jesus name only) in order to obtain the remission of sins (dipped or condemned) with the evidence of speaking in tongues (no tongues, no Holy Spirit) may be the necessary foundational components of the perverted gospel of the Oneness Pentecostal church, but are not necessary components for salvation outlined for all in the book of Acts.
1 Corinthians 3:11 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF IS THE FOUNDATION AND NOT WATER BAPTISM, SPEAKING IN TONGUES OR WORKS IN GENERAL. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
I see that everything I explained to you in post #40 just went right over your head.
As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works through your components. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.
Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" setting out to do things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone as evidenced by authentic Christianity. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness as evidenced by false religions and cults.
*Only those who truly believe in Christ are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus, perverts the gospel and acts on their own self-righteous works system and confuses that with properly hearing and doing/acting on the words of Jesus.
1 Corinthians 3:11 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF IS THE FOUNDATION AND NOT WATER BAPTISM, SPEAKING IN TONGUES OR WORKS IN GENERAL. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
I see that everything I explained to you in post #40 just went right over your head.
As we read on in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works through your components. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.
Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" setting out to do things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone as evidenced by authentic Christianity. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness as evidenced by false religions and cults.
*Only those who truly believe in Christ are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus, perverts the gospel and acts on their own self-righteous works system and confuses that with properly hearing and doing/acting on the words of Jesus.
Matt 7:24-27
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Just one example of how important obedience is:
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:21-26
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:21-26
I can only go by what someone posts. My point to mailmandan was that only after acting upon what Jesus has said is one's foundation put in place. Those who neglect to do as He said have a foundation built upon sand.
Jesus said those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. We also see Jesus' instructions in Luke 24:49 that establish we are to wait until being endued with power before beginning our ministry. Sound familiar? Repent and be baptized EVERYONE in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I have shared this truth with you over and over so there is no need to continue.
Jesus said those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. We also see Jesus' instructions in Luke 24:49 that establish we are to wait until being endued with power before beginning our ministry. Sound familiar? Repent and be baptized EVERYONE in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I have shared this truth with you over and over so there is no need to continue.