Thief on the Cross
- Thread starter Wansvic
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Since Moses visited Christ at His Transfiguration, I believe Moses will be resurrected before the Second Coming. It is true that both those prophets will be killed and also resurrected and raptured at the end of their ministry, but God can make exceptions for anything.
The fact that Moses and Elijah were both present at the Transfiguration representing the Law and the Prophets gives very strong support to their appearance during the reign of the Antichrist. And the correspondence of their future miracles to their past miracles is also another factor to be taken into account. But we cannot be dogmatic since their names are not mentioned. (Enoch never performed any miracles recorded in the Bible). Perhaps God wanted Christians to connect the dots.
The fact that Moses and Elijah were both present at the Transfiguration representing the Law and the Prophets gives very strong support to their appearance during the reign of the Antichrist. And the correspondence of their future miracles to their past miracles is also another factor to be taken into account. But we cannot be dogmatic since their names are not mentioned. (Enoch never performed any miracles recorded in the Bible). Perhaps God wanted Christians to connect the dots.
-
1
- Show all
God's name was kept secret in the OT (Gen 32:29-30; Exodus 3:13-14; Judges 13:17-18) because if the devil would have known God's plan he would not have had Jesus crucified. (1 Cor 2:8)
Jesus is the name of the Father as revealed by Jesus Himself in the NT. (John 5:43, 17:6-11)
What is the name of the Holy Spirit? Knowing that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary for her to conceive Jesus answers the question. The Holy Spirit is the actual Spirit of God the Father. This truth is understood because Jesus is the Son of God. Beings the Father and the Holy Ghost are one in the same so is the name associated with both; it is Jesus.
Jesus is the name of the Father as revealed by Jesus Himself in the NT. (John 5:43, 17:6-11)
What is the name of the Holy Spirit? Knowing that the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary for her to conceive Jesus answers the question. The Holy Spirit is the actual Spirit of God the Father. This truth is understood because Jesus is the Son of God. Beings the Father and the Holy Ghost are one in the same so is the name associated with both; it is Jesus.
I have never doubted that all instructions given at Pentecost were required and that a specific sequence was not necessary. However, every record in the bible is as it is for a reason.
I wondered and prayed about the significance of the Gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost first and afterward being water baptized in Jesus' name. Praise God that after accepting things by faith there are times He gives us a glimpse into why an event unfolded as it did:
It is common knowledge that God will always confirm His concepts in the Word by at least 2 examples/witnesses. (1 Cor 13:1, Matt 18:16) One can see God's principle at work in the sequence of events that took place when the Gentile population was presented with, and obeyed the gospel message in Acts 10.
Initially, the Jewish population were the only ones given access to the spiritual re-birth via the gospel message. (Acts 2:38) The Gentiles were unacceptable to God; they were considered unclean. Jews did not associate with Gentiles let alone share the gospel message with them.
God was soon to make some changes and there would be no second guessing exactly what God wanted. God gave Peter a vision. (Acts 10:9-17) In the vision Peter was shown foods that had been unclean but were now considered clean. Peter wondered what the vision meant. (Acts 10:17-20) On the same day, men were sent to Peter by a Gentile named Cornelius.
Peter asked why Cornelius sent for him. (Acts 10:29) Cornelius said he wanted to hear all the God had commanded of Peter. (Acts 10:33) While Peter was sharing the message of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection the listeners were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. (Acts 10:44) Peter and the Jews with him were astonished that God had chosen to fill the Gentiles with His Spirit.
God had made it clear by two examples that the Gentiles were acceptable to Him and could have their sins remitted in the waters of baptism as well as the Jews. That is why Peter said, Can any forbid water that these should not be baptized that have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Later Peter would tell the Jewish leaders that he had no right to withstand God after seeing God had filled the Gentiles with His Spirit. It is clear what Peter meant. It was not up to him to withhold water baptism from the Gentiles. God made His wishes clear by filling them with His Spirit.
Acts 11:17-18
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
I wondered and prayed about the significance of the Gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost first and afterward being water baptized in Jesus' name. Praise God that after accepting things by faith there are times He gives us a glimpse into why an event unfolded as it did:
It is common knowledge that God will always confirm His concepts in the Word by at least 2 examples/witnesses. (1 Cor 13:1, Matt 18:16) One can see God's principle at work in the sequence of events that took place when the Gentile population was presented with, and obeyed the gospel message in Acts 10.
Initially, the Jewish population were the only ones given access to the spiritual re-birth via the gospel message. (Acts 2:38) The Gentiles were unacceptable to God; they were considered unclean. Jews did not associate with Gentiles let alone share the gospel message with them.
God was soon to make some changes and there would be no second guessing exactly what God wanted. God gave Peter a vision. (Acts 10:9-17) In the vision Peter was shown foods that had been unclean but were now considered clean. Peter wondered what the vision meant. (Acts 10:17-20) On the same day, men were sent to Peter by a Gentile named Cornelius.
Peter asked why Cornelius sent for him. (Acts 10:29) Cornelius said he wanted to hear all the God had commanded of Peter. (Acts 10:33) While Peter was sharing the message of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection the listeners were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. (Acts 10:44) Peter and the Jews with him were astonished that God had chosen to fill the Gentiles with His Spirit.
God had made it clear by two examples that the Gentiles were acceptable to Him and could have their sins remitted in the waters of baptism as well as the Jews. That is why Peter said, Can any forbid water that these should not be baptized that have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Later Peter would tell the Jewish leaders that he had no right to withstand God after seeing God had filled the Gentiles with His Spirit. It is clear what Peter meant. It was not up to him to withhold water baptism from the Gentiles. God made His wishes clear by filling them with His Spirit.
Acts 11:17-18
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Thought you might be interested in the revelation I recently received from God. I posted this to Hevosmies but didn't know whether you would see it:
I have never doubted that all instructions given at Pentecost (repent, get water baptized in Jesus' name and receive the Holy Ghost) were required and that a specific sequence was not necessary. However, every record in the bible is as it is for a reason.
I wondered and prayed about the significance of the Gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost first and afterward being water baptized in Jesus' name. Praise God that after accepting things by faith there are times He gives us a glimpse into why an event unfolded as it did:
It is common knowledge that God will always confirm His concepts in the Word by at least 2 examples/witnesses. (1 Cor 13:1, Matt 18:16) One can see God's principle at work in the sequence of events that took place when the Gentile population was presented with, and obeyed the gospel message in Acts 10.
Initially, the Jewish population were the only ones given access to the spiritual re-birth via the gospel message. (Acts 2:38) The Gentiles were unacceptable to God; they were considered unclean. Jews did not associate with Gentiles let alone share the gospel message with them.
God was soon to make some changes and there would be no second guessing exactly what God wanted. God gave Peter a vision. (Acts 10:9-17) In the vision Peter was shown foods that had been unclean but were now considered clean. Peter wondered what the vision meant. (Acts 10:17-20) On the same day, men were sent to Peter by a Gentile named Cornelius.
Peter asked why Cornelius sent for him. (Acts 10:29) Cornelius said he wanted to hear all the God had commanded of Peter. (Acts 10:33) While Peter was sharing the message of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection the listeners were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. (Acts 10:44) Peter and the Jews with him were astonished that God had chosen to fill the Gentiles with His Spirit.
God had made it clear by two examples that the Gentiles were acceptable to Him and could have their sins remitted in the waters of baptism as well as the Jews. That is why Peter said, Can any forbid water that these should not be baptized that have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Later Peter would tell the Jewish leaders that he had no right to withstand God after seeing God had filled the Gentiles with His Spirit. It is clear what Peter meant. It was not up to him to withhold water baptism from the Gentiles. God made His wishes clear by filling them with His Spirit.
Acts 11:17-18
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. REMEMBER WATER BAPTISM is the baptism of repentance for the remission of sin. (Luke 3:3)
I have never doubted that all instructions given at Pentecost (repent, get water baptized in Jesus' name and receive the Holy Ghost) were required and that a specific sequence was not necessary. However, every record in the bible is as it is for a reason.
I wondered and prayed about the significance of the Gentiles receiving the Holy Ghost first and afterward being water baptized in Jesus' name. Praise God that after accepting things by faith there are times He gives us a glimpse into why an event unfolded as it did:
It is common knowledge that God will always confirm His concepts in the Word by at least 2 examples/witnesses. (1 Cor 13:1, Matt 18:16) One can see God's principle at work in the sequence of events that took place when the Gentile population was presented with, and obeyed the gospel message in Acts 10.
Initially, the Jewish population were the only ones given access to the spiritual re-birth via the gospel message. (Acts 2:38) The Gentiles were unacceptable to God; they were considered unclean. Jews did not associate with Gentiles let alone share the gospel message with them.
God was soon to make some changes and there would be no second guessing exactly what God wanted. God gave Peter a vision. (Acts 10:9-17) In the vision Peter was shown foods that had been unclean but were now considered clean. Peter wondered what the vision meant. (Acts 10:17-20) On the same day, men were sent to Peter by a Gentile named Cornelius.
Peter asked why Cornelius sent for him. (Acts 10:29) Cornelius said he wanted to hear all the God had commanded of Peter. (Acts 10:33) While Peter was sharing the message of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection the listeners were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. (Acts 10:44) Peter and the Jews with him were astonished that God had chosen to fill the Gentiles with His Spirit.
God had made it clear by two examples that the Gentiles were acceptable to Him and could have their sins remitted in the waters of baptism as well as the Jews. That is why Peter said, Can any forbid water that these should not be baptized that have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Later Peter would tell the Jewish leaders that he had no right to withstand God after seeing God had filled the Gentiles with His Spirit. It is clear what Peter meant. It was not up to him to withhold water baptism from the Gentiles. God made His wishes clear by filling them with His Spirit.
Acts 11:17-18
Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. REMEMBER WATER BAPTISM is the baptism of repentance for the remission of sin. (Luke 3:3)
Bumped for wansvic. You know, it's bad enough that you believe that water baptism is required for salvation but now you have advanced to a new level of heretical beliefs that Jesus Christ is God the Father. In short, you are more far gone that I first thought. How about providing the verses that teach Jesus Christ is God the Father? 
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
As I already explained to you that Matthew 18:16 has to do with disdiplining a sinning brother and restoring him back to the fold so to speak. And if he does not listen the danger increases in losing the brother. The same principle applies here at 2 Corinthians 13:1. You made a typo and typed 1 Corinthians 13:1 which is another subject. Don't worry we all make typos! Please read vs2. Btw, what makes your revelation from God more right than my revelation from God?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
I think you are regarding Acts as a book of Church doctrine. I see Acts as Luke recording what went on in the body of Christ, after the ascension of Christ.
Peter was taught by Jesus that water baptism was required for all the Jews to be saved. There was no instructions then for Gentiles. From what he learned of Ruth and Rahab in the OT, the guidelines is that any Gentile must be saved "as a Jew", meaning they have to be circumcised and follow the law.
But when he saw the HS being poured into the Gentiles, before they are even circumcised or given the Law, he was caught by surprise. That means they are already saved by God. So he responded in the only way he knew, is to get them water baptized.
It is not suppose to teach you, reading it now in the 21st century, that water baptism was also required for Gentiles to be saved.
Peter was taught by Jesus that water baptism was required for all the Jews to be saved. There was no instructions then for Gentiles. From what he learned of Ruth and Rahab in the OT, the guidelines is that any Gentile must be saved "as a Jew", meaning they have to be circumcised and follow the law.
But when he saw the HS being poured into the Gentiles, before they are even circumcised or given the Law, he was caught by surprise. That means they are already saved by God. So he responded in the only way he knew, is to get them water baptized.
It is not suppose to teach you, reading it now in the 21st century, that water baptism was also required for Gentiles to be saved.
I will seek God for that specific answer. However, do you realize that we are expected to accept the message given and be obedient to Peter's instructions by faith. Many that hear the message acknowledge it exists but refuse to do it unless someone can explain every detail. The person that complies with the commands only after appeasing themselves that they have it all figured out will not partake of the spiritual rebirth.
The spiritual rebirth is achieved through the operation of one's faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. One step of faith leads to another and then another. (Rom 1:16-17) This is clearly seen in one's acceptance of Jesus as Messiah (a decision made by faith) repentance, (another decision made by faith) submitting to water baptism in Jesus' name (another decision made by faith) and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost sometimes spontaneously, and at other times received through the laying on of hands.(another decision made by faith) This truth is confirmed by many scriptures; see, Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers.
The spiritual rebirth is achieved through the operation of one's faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. One step of faith leads to another and then another. (Rom 1:16-17) This is clearly seen in one's acceptance of Jesus as Messiah (a decision made by faith) repentance, (another decision made by faith) submitting to water baptism in Jesus' name (another decision made by faith) and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost sometimes spontaneously, and at other times received through the laying on of hands.(another decision made by faith) This truth is confirmed by many scriptures; see, Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers.
-
1
- Show all
What did you do wansivic, put me on ignore? If you did it shows that your theology won't stand because your unable to face the truth. It's the same as "whistling in the dark hoping the dark will go away." Well, I'm not going away and will continue to confront heretical teachings in whatever form it may take.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
The Book of Acts does contain the true doctrine of the Church. The Acts record expresses how one becomes a part of the body of Christ. Luke questioned actual eye witnesses of what transpired as the NT church was birthed. Luke notes Peter's words to the crowd at Pentecost. He explains how after complying with the instructions, the new disciples travel out of Jerusalem and begin witnessing the truth to others throughout the World.
Luke's letter records specific episodes where obedience to Peter's initial instructions to the Jews were required of Gentiles, Samaritans, and Ephesus disciples, and others as well. (Acts 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers)
Where does one find in the Word that the infilling of the Holy Ghost is all that is required for one to be reborn/saved?
Luke's letter records specific episodes where obedience to Peter's initial instructions to the Jews were required of Gentiles, Samaritans, and Ephesus disciples, and others as well. (Acts 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul, 8:35-40 Eunuch, 16:28-33 Jailer/family, 16:14-15 Lydia/family, 18:8 Crispus/Corinthian believers)
Where does one find in the Word that the infilling of the Holy Ghost is all that is required for one to be reborn/saved?
The Book of Acts has one main theme to me, to document to all readers that the Jewish nation as a whole has completely rejected Jesus as their Messiah.
By the time Stephen was stoned, the HQ, particularly the Sanhedrin, which contain the main religious leaders of the Jews, has rejected him.
By the last chapter of Acts, we also get the diaspora, which are the Jews living outside Jerusalem, also rejecting Jesus. What Paul concluded in Acts 28:25-28 was really very sad once you realized this
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
If people want to regard Acts as church doctrine, I guess they have all the rights to do so.
By the time Stephen was stoned, the HQ, particularly the Sanhedrin, which contain the main religious leaders of the Jews, has rejected him.
By the last chapter of Acts, we also get the diaspora, which are the Jews living outside Jerusalem, also rejecting Jesus. What Paul concluded in Acts 28:25-28 was really very sad once you realized this
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
If people want to regard Acts as church doctrine, I guess they have all the rights to do so.