There will be no Rapture!!!

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SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
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#21
Brother, is that what the Scripture says tho? I see Him saying after very clearly.

Matthew 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. “And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. “And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#22
Just to clarify… Do you believe the rapture happens before the tribulation?
No, I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. I believe that the earth will mourn when Jesus' return as the Lion, and the righteous are His cubs, as He will be to them (the wolves) as a She-bear robbed of her whelps.
 

Talljake

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
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#23
Brother, is that what the Scripture says tho? I see Him saying after very clearly.

Matthew 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. “And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. “And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Well like I said I am still learning, I will reach out tomorrow night to someone I will see in church and ask. I will bring these verses up to see what is said. I'm for knowing the truth, but out of everything I've been shown....pre-trib is what seems to make the most sense. But you have my attention and will see what is said.
 

Aussie52

Active member
Aug 31, 2022
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#24
There will be no pre or mid tribulation rapture. This is an invention of the dispensationalists. The Pre-Rapture was invented by the dispensationalist John Darby in the 19th century. It did not exist before that. Church history did not know a Pre-Rapture before the 19th century.

The Bible clearly states that Christians must go through the Tribulation, for Revelation 20:4 describes how Christians will be beheaded for their faith during the Tribulation. If there really was a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, then logically there would be no Christians in the Tribulation, but because there will be Christians in the Tribulation, that means there will be no Pre-Tribulation Rapture! Revelation 13:7 also declares that Christians will be given into the hand of the Antichrist, which means the Antichrist may overcome Christians and kill them.

Jesus will return only once and that is after the tribulation. Then he will gather all Christians.
Not going to take the bait!
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
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#25
Well like I said I am still learning, I will reach out tomorrow night to someone I will see in church and ask. I will bring these verses up to see what is said. I'm for knowing the truth, but out of everything I've been shown....pre-trib is what seems to make the most sense. But you have my attention and will see what is said.
Also don;t be shy to read and understand for yourself,

John 16:12-13, 12 “I still have many words to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 “But when He comes, the Spirit of the Truth, He shall guide you into all the truth. For He shall not speak from Himself, but whatever He hears He shall speak, and He shall announce to you what is to come.”

If you pray and are in His Spirit He can guide you to the truth, it is nice to have others to be shoulder to shoulder with (that is even with) and learn things they have learned but the word is here for all to read.

If you set your heart to understand His words and take the time, He will guide just stay focused on His will.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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#26
This shows after the trib Yahshua returns and His Malakim gather the chosen of YHWH

Matthew 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. “And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. “And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Revelation 11:15-18, 15 And the seventh messenger sounded, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”16 And the twenty-four elders sitting before Elohim on their thrones fell on their faces and worshipped Elohim, 17 saying, “We give You thanks, O יהוה Ěl Shaddai, the One who is and who was and who is coming, because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 “And the nations were enraged, Psa 2:1 and Your wrath has come, and the time of the dead to be judged, and to give the reward to Your servants the prophets and to the set-apart ones, and to those who fear Your Name, small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forththose who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”



Titles do not matter, the judgment of YHWH is what matters. Those gathered by the Messengers as stated in Matt 24:31 are taken up
I understand what you are saying.. But I don’t see “taken” up…. I only see “gathered” but what is scary is… Jesus said he was the boss, and He said that he is leaving for a little while, but he will be back, and he told his workers to keep working.

Matthew 24: 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

So then Jesus (boss) comes back and finds out that some of his workers have been “taken”

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

I believe the servant that is working when Christ returns is wise… and the one “taken” has been deceived.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
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#27
I understand what you are saying.. But I don’t see “taken” up…..
I said taken up becauase it says

Matthew 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. “And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. “And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

“Heaven” is word #G3772 οὐρανός ouranos (ou-ra-nos') n.
1. the sky.

Mark 13:26-27, 26 “And then they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming in the clouds Dan 7:13 with much power and esteem. 27 “And then He shall send His messengers, and assemble His chosen ones from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

but what is scary is… Jesus said he was the boss, and He said that he is leaving for a little while, but he will be back, and he told his workers to keep working.

Matthew 24: 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

So then Jesus (boss) comes back and finds out that some of his workers have been “taken”

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

I believe the servant that is working when Christ returns is wise… and the one “taken” has been deceived.
Keep reading after that He makes it clear what id good and what is bad:

Matthew 24:44-51, 44 “Because of this, be ready too, for the Son of Aḏam is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him. 45 “Who then is a trustworthy and wise servant, whom his master set over his household, to give them food in season? 46 “Blessed is that servant whom his master, having come, shall find so doing. 47 “Truly, I say to you that he shall set him over all his possessions. 48 “But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant shall come on a day when he does not expect it, and at an hour he does not know, 51 and shall cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites – there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Im about to log off, keep up the studies and stay strong this life is a test, nothing here is worth losing the Kingdom for.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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#28
I said taken up becauase it says

Matthew 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. “And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. “And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

“Heaven” is word #G3772 οὐρανός ouranos (ou-ra-nos') n.
1. the sky.

Mark 13:26-27, 26 “And then they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming in the clouds Dan 7:13 with much power and esteem. 27 “And then He shall send His messengers, and assemble His chosen ones from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.



Keep reading after that He makes it clear what id good and what is bad:

Matthew 24:44-51, 44 “Because of this, be ready too, for the Son of Aḏam is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him. 45 “Who then is a trustworthy and wise servant, whom his master set over his household, to give them food in season? 46 “Blessed is that servant whom his master, having come, shall find so doing. 47 “Truly, I say to you that he shall set him over all his possessions. 48 “But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant shall come on a day when he does not expect it, and at an hour he does not know, 51 and shall cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites – there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Im about to log off, keep up the studies and stay strong this life is a test, nothing here is worth losing the Kingdom for.
Thanks bro.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#29
There will be no pre or mid tribulation rapture.
Another new member denying Bible truth and Gospel truth. A sign that we are witnessing the great apostasy. From the title of the thread it is clear that you do not know anything about the significance of the Rapture, which is the Blessed Hope of every believer.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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#30
Actually, the hope of every believer is to spend eternity in the presence of God....
I don't really care what happens to me before judgment... my plan is to not worry about the times, signs, events, pre/post.... none of that. I just want to live my life in readiness, trying to be as much like Jesus as possible.... and I'm ready no matter what comes.

All the arguing pre/post/none is simply silly....

23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce [k]quarrels.
 

Komentaja

Active member
Jul 29, 2022
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#31
At the 7th trumpet

Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Revelation 15:1-8, “And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous: seven messengers having the seven last plagues, for the wrath of יהוה was ended in them. And I saw like a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those overcoming the beast and his image and his mark and the number of his name, standing on the sea of glass, holding harps of יהוה. And they sing the song of Mosheh the servant of יהוה, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and marvelous are Your works, יהוה Strength Almighty! Righteous and true are Your ways, O Sovereign of the set-apart ones! Who shall not fear You, O יהוה, and esteem Your Name? Because You alone are kind. Because all nations shall come and worship before You, for Your righteousness have been made manifest.”And after this I looked and saw the Dwelling Place of the Tent of Witness in the heaven was opened. And out of the Dwelling Place came the seven messengers having the seven plagues, dressed in clean bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands. And one of the four living creatures gave to the seven messengers seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of יהוה who lives forever and ever. And the Dwelling Place was filled with smoke from the esteem of יהוה and from His power, and no one was able to enter the Dwelling Place until the seven plagues of the seven messengers were ended.”

Revelation 15:7,
“And one of the four living creatures gave to the seven messengers seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of יהוה who lives forever and ever.”


Revelation 1:9-10,
“I, Yoḥanan, both your brother and co-sharer in pressure, and in the reign and endurance of יהושע Messiah, came to be on the island that is called Patmos for the Word of יהוה and for the witness of יהושע Messiah. I came to be in the Spirit on the Day of יהוה, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet*.”


Isaiah 13:9-13,
Howl, for the day of יהוה is near! It comes as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore all hands go limp, every man’s heart melts, and they shall be afraid. Pangs and sorrows take hold of them, they are in pain as a woman in labor; they are amazed at one another, their faces aflame! See, the day of יהוה is coming, fierce, with wrath and heat of displeasure, to lay the earth waste, and destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of the heavens and their constellations do not give off their light. The sun shall be dark at its rising, and the moon not send out its light. And I shall punish the world for its evil, and the wrong for their crookedness, and shall put an end to the arrogance of the proud, and lay low the pride of the ruthless. I shall make mortal man scarcer than fine gold, and mankind scarcer than the gold of Ophir. So I shall make the heavens tremble, and the earth shall shake from her place, in the wrath of יהוה of hosts and in the day of the heat of His displeasure.”
Why do you always add hebrew text to where it doesn't belong? The new testament was written in greek, and God's name was always "Ho Theos" not "YHVH"

The names were in greek as well. Just type it in english pal
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#32
Why do you always add hebrew text to where it doesn't belong? The new testament was written in greek, and God's name was always "Ho Theos" not "YHVH"

The names were in greek as well. Just type it in english pal
He's using The Scriptures Bible published by The Institute For Scripture Research. It's just another attempt in the ongoing effort to legitimize the Hebrew Roots movement and make everyone into Torah observers.
 

Talljake

Well-known member
Jul 17, 2022
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#33
Actually, the hope of every believer is to spend eternity in the presence of God....
I don't really care what happens to me before judgment... my plan is to not worry about the times, signs, events, pre/post.... none of that. I just want to live my life in readiness, trying to be as much like Jesus as possible.... and I'm ready no matter what comes.

All the arguing pre/post/none is simply silly....

23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce [k]quarrels.
Amen, you are absolutely right. It should not matter, just be ready and be serving. This reminds me of The women and their oil lamps. Thank you for being a reminder.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
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#34
No pre-trib rapture.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (KJV)

Satan comes first at the 6th trump.

Jesus comes after that—at the 7th trump.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
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#35
Why do you always add hebrew text to where it doesn't belong? The new testament was written in greek, and God's name was always "Ho Theos" not "YHVH"

The names were in greek as well. Just type it in english pal
If it is talking about the Father, then I use His name, He has a name

Isayah 42:8, “I am יהוה, that is My Name, and My esteem I do not give to another, nor My praise to idols."

You know there are hundreds of OT quotes in the NT, many of those originals quotes use His name.

G2962 κύριος kurios (kï '-riy-os) n.
1. lord, supreme in authority, the one in control.
2. (also, by implication) sir or master (as a title showing respect for others).
3. (in Hebrew) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually Yahweh God of Israel - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
4. (in Hebrew) Yahweh. Outside the Hebraic Scriptures, rabbis rendered the name “Yahweh” as “LORD” or as “GOD” with the intent to keep this name utterly holy and away from any hint or speck of desecration. This practice continues fervently to this day.
5. (of ownership) an owner (especially of an animal or object).
[from κῦρος kŷrȏs “supremacy”]
KJV: God, Lord, master, Sir
Compare: G1203, G3617
See also: G2959, G2960, H136, H3068

This practice was instituted by the Pharisees. I don't follow pharisees.

Jeremiah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."

BAAL (DEITY) [Hebrew - baal] . Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts. (Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546)

The Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible, Supplementary Volume, page 717

The earliest instance where a word in the biblical text was not read, but another was pronounced in its stead, is that of the TETRAGRAMMATON (YHWH). The prohibition of pronouncing "The Name," and the obligation of substituting in perpetuity a term that expresses the divine majesty, are explicitly recognized in the Babylonian Talmud (Pes. 50a): "Said the Holy One, blessed be He: not as I am written, am I read. I am written (yodh-he, i.e., the Tetragrammaton), but I am read (aleph-daleth, i.e., Adonai)." The antiquity of this prohibition is evident from the fact that the Hebrew Tetragrammaton was not translated in the most ancient recensions of the lxx, where it appears only in Hebrew script. Later it was rendered into Greek by (Lord), which conveys the sense of the Hebrew Adonai. In the Greek text, at the beginning, the same procedure was followed as in the Hebrew, namely, the equivalent of the divine name was first abbreviated, through reverence, into the form , then, in later texts and under Christian influence, it came to be written out fully. In the same way, the Babylonian Targ. on the Pentateuch (Targ. Onkelos) systematically renders the Tetra-grammaton into Aramaic by the abbreviation (the arithmetic equivalent of which __26__ is the same as that of the Tetragrammaton fully written in its Hebrew form).

This ancient prohibition of pronouncing the divine name persisted orally until the introduction of the Hebrew vocalic system, where the vowels written under the Tetragrammaton are those of the substitute word Adonai. Its antiquity clearly shows that it originated in the oldest Jewish oral traditions that accompanied the transmission (masora) of the sacred text from the beginning. In contrast to the qere perpetuum, substituted orally for the Tetragrammaton, the Masoretic tradition, as a precautionary measure, indicated in the margin of later mss, in the form of a statistical note (=134), the number of times in the text where God is explicitly designated by the title (cf. Gen. 18:3 and passim). In this way, they sought to forestall any change in the form of the sacred text that might be made by an overhasty scribe.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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#36
MUST be a pre or mid trib rapture. Fairly easy to make the case to those that believe Scripture.

Jesus said "No man knows the day or the hour"

Daniel, Thessalonians, and elsewhere say at the 3.5 year point of the Great Tribulation the antichrist will seat himself in the Temple declaring himself to be god.

From that time on, we will know the day and the hour of Jesus's return.

Therefore, the Church can't be here at the moment the antichrist seats himself, or we will know the day and hour.
 

SpeakTruth101

Active member
Aug 14, 2023
874
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#37
Actually, the hope of every believer is to spend eternity in the presence of God....
I don't really care what happens to me before judgment... my plan is to not worry about the times, signs, events, pre/post.... none of that. I just want to live my life in readiness, trying to be as much like Jesus as possible.... and I'm ready no matter what comes.
I agree with your view here, very honorable.

Psalm 40:4, “Blessed is that man who has made יהוה his trust, And has not turned to the proud, And those turning aside to falsehood.”

All the arguing pre/post/none is simply silly....

23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce [k]quarrels.
I don;t think it is silly because if someone believe with all there heart a pre-trib, and it is not true, it could effect their faith making them think the Bible is wrong, when indeed it would be their understanding is wrong,

The Word is left to us for a reason, it is to teach us His truth, it is never silly to want to know that truth. Now It is not directly salvational however it can be a tool of evil to mislead to make people believe something the Word does not say.

Psalm 40:4, “Blessed is that man who has made יהוה his trust, And has not turned to the proud, And those turning aside to falsehood.”