The Trinity

JacobMartinMertens · Oct 2, 2023

Mem said:

No. I copied the verse and posted it. It is a memory verse of mine.

John 14:10-11 NASB20 - "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own, but the Father, as He remains in Me, does His works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

maxwel · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

What you say you believe is still unclear, and I suspect it falls very short of the complete doctrine of the "Deity of Christ"

The doctrine of the Deity of Christ is:
1.) Christ, the son, existed eternally with the Father, and both were always God
2.) Then the son LEFT that position in glory, and was incarnated as a human. He then became the "God Man", who was TRULY GOD and yet TRULY HUMAN... what scholars call the hypostatic union, and scripture calls the "mystery of Godliness".
3.) He lived a perfect life, and then died on the cross for our sins.
4.) He had the power to forgive all people and all sins, for all time, BECAUSE HE IS GOD, and he is an INFINITE being of INFINITE power. If he were not God, his sacrifice would not be infinite and eternal... if he was not infinite and eternal he could not make a sacrifice that was infinite and eternal.
5.) He then raised himself from the dead, because he is God.
6.) He now resides in a glorified state, with the father, and reigns as God.

That is a quick synopsis of the Deity of Christ... and what Christians mean by this doctrine.

I do not think this is what you believe.

.

Deuteronomy · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

The NASB (my go-to translation, as well) doesn't translate "Theotes" as such, but a number of other translations do. For instance (in the verse that you have just been referring to above),

Colossians 2 (NKJV) (+KJV; ASV; Amplified; CSB; HCSB; Douay-Rheims; ERV; LSV; YLT, etc.)

9 In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

--David

Mem · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

Ok, how do you interpret a human being that possesses "all the fullness of deity"?
I understand that there are those that believe that God cannot die, yet I wonder if this is exactly what is meant by the wording that "He 'emptied' Himself", putting off His "undying'ness" (it's hard for me to find the exact right word I'm trying to convey), taking the form of a servant, obedient unto death... to suffer our death so that we could be raised with Him, as He laid down His life and took it up again

JacobMartinMertens · Oct 2, 2023

maxwel said:

What you say you believe is still unclear, and I suspect it falls very short of the complete doctrine of the "Deity of Christ"

The doctrine of the Deity of Christ is:
1.) Christ, the son, existed eternally with the Father, and both were always God
2.) Then the son LEFT that position in glory, and was incarnated as a human. He then became the "God Man", who was TRULY GOD and yet TRULY HUMAN... what scholars call the hypostatic union, and scripture calls the "mystery of Godliness".
3.) He lived a perfect life, and then died on the cross for our sins.
4.) He had the power to forgive all people and all sins, for all time, BECAUSE HE IS GOD, and he is an INFINITE being of INFINITE power. If he were not God, his sacrifice would not be infinite and eternal... if he was not infinite and eternal he could not make a sacrifice that was infinite and eternal.
5.) He then raised himself from the dead, because he is God.
6.) He now resides in a glorified state, with the father, and reigns as God.

That is a quick synopsis of the Deity of Christ... and what Christians mean by this doctrine.

I do not think this is what you believe.

.

I don't believe in two God's that are equal so you are correct.

maxwel · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

Someone needs to explain to Jacob how the trinity works.

I'm tired, and it's getting late.

.

JacobMartinMertens · Oct 2, 2023

Mem said:

Some people may feel that the word emptied Himself before being made flesh. I am not sure. The other possibility is Jesus emptying Himself. But both of these are unclear to me. That doesn't relate to Colossians 2:9 though.

Deuteronomy · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

What did you mean then

Please elaborate (as time allows). Thanks

JacobMartinMertens · Oct 2, 2023

Deuteronomy said:

Elohiym is plural. But Godhead has been seen as both one (God or the Father) and three (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). I don't believe in a Godhead.

Mem · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

You said that you devoted scripture to memory, and of course that is good, except that it seems you devoted only a certain interpretation (whether doctrinal or anti-doctrinal, I can't be certain) to the verse also.

JacobMartinMertens · Oct 2, 2023

Mem said:

That is always possible. I am also aware of the fact that I do not know Greek. We must take counsel with the full body of Biblical texts. I don't know if I need help with it from outside the text, such as saying things like semitic or middle eastern and the such, for the word Elohiym, etc.... That is not what you are saying, but I don't believe in the Godhead translations here.

Mem · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

Yes, you've approached these verses with an anti-trinitarian mindset. Perhaps because of warnings from someone or a group that you perceived as, idk, guardians of your salvation. And these might have meant the best for you but are in the "place" that they think that you 'should' be, that is not giving the trinitarian idea even a second look. But what if...

JacobMartinMertens · Oct 2, 2023

Mem said:

I am not sure what you are saying. The people I know either support the Trinity or they are not religious, as far as I know.

Mem · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

Ok, I'm not going to press it on you, and neither am I interested in learning I'm wrong on the subject, as I'm just as certain you will push back against it until you truly do "want" to learn about it.

JacobMartinMertens · Oct 2, 2023

Mem said:

Learning about something doesn't mean accepting it. But if it is a genuine belief people have of course I would want to compare it with scripture. A thing does not have to be in the Bible to be true. But I believe that what I find in the Bible is true.

Mem · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

I'm just saying, missing God, in all His fullness, is a pretty big miss. It becomes ... words again... just formalities? short selling? ...I probably won't think of the word I want until next week because now I'll ruminate on it until I do, and then... I'll forget where I needed to use it.

Mem · Oct 2, 2023

I think maybe 'accolades' is a good word for it, awarding merit to God for what He did, but falling short of honoring Him as Who He Is.

JaumeJ · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

Perhaps were you to read Isaiah 9;6, it will give your faith and understanding a great leap.

For me this is not a doctrine, rather, by faith given, it is simply the truth.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

You willl understand that Jesus is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, for God's prophet, Isaiah, was given to teach this.

Deuteronomy · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

Hello again Jacob, what is it that you believe in then, in specific regard to the Son and the Holy Spirit? Who do you believe that they are/what kind of beings or Beings are they (both individually, as well as in relation to the Father)

Here, for instance, are all Three Persons/Members of the Godhead together and interacting with one another.

Mark 1

9 In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.

10 Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him;

11 and a voice came out of the heavens: “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

12 Immediately the Spirit impelled Him to go out into the wilderness.

13 And He was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by Satan; and He was with the wild beasts, and the angels were ministering to Him.

Thanks

--David
p.s. - the Lord Jesus told us to baptize new believers in the "name" of God, in His (singular) Name in this case is, which is: "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit".

Matthew 28

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the 'name' of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

notmyown · Oct 2, 2023

JacobMartinMertens said:

hi, Jacob,

have you ever studied any language other than English?

The Trinity

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