The Times of the Gentiles

[Elihoenai]

No I am not. I consider my self Christian and that I am outside the camps. That is not that I am against any of the camps among Christianity but to settle into one or the other at times might cause me to not look at what is actually spoken in the Scriptures to defend an camp in eschatology. So if I am outside the camps I have the luxury of not being obligated to say the things they would to defend their camps of thought. In this I have the liberty to speak the things I believe is the truth without fear of the ridicule that would come if I spoke of something that the camps do not agree with me in.

I was not laughing out loud at such an important matter as the mark of the beast but instead because you quoted me from post that would have answered the very things you ask me in you post. I have to admit that mine own wife has pointed out to me that when she reads though my post in times past I do speak(type) in an blunt/rude manner,lol. I apologize if I do or did seem that way it was not my intention but it may be an flaw of mine I need improvement on.

In such I will then try to set forth answers to these questions you ask because I do agree with you that it is very important to determine if the mark of the beast was in the past or if it is in the future according to mine own studies of Scripture and or historical testimonies of the men of the first century.

There are three important things to consider I think in evaluating this that is Rome,Israel and Christianity. I say this because he Scriptures do give an detailed account of the things that would take place in the time frame we are speaking of. That is that someone would establish an image and others being deceived would worship it. In this also those who refuse/refused to worship this image ae killed.

Now in Josephus wars 2 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html it can be established that the Jews did not show piety towards Rome. That is that they did not see Caesar as God nor did they worship him as God instead they refused even to make sacrifice for him in the temple. The fact that they(the Jews) revolted/rebelled against Rome/Caesar should establish the fact that the Jews did not worship Rome/Caesar or it's image as God in the fist century(ad66-70). In fact it shows proof of the opposite in that they refused to do so.

The importance in this is that someone according to Scripture is to fulfill this worshiping of the image but as history shows the Jews of ad66-70 did not. Another important part of this is in that an mark is given during the timing of the image being set up and that only those who received the mark of the beast would be able to buy and sell(Revelation 13) but at that same time when the Jews revolted from Rome they minted their own coins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage , and so it can also be shown that they did not buy nor sell with the mark/money of Rome or worship it's image in the time frame of the first century ad. This should remove them from consideration of an first century fulfillment of the mark of the beast of Revelation 13.

Now if you consider the very post I gave that you quoted(#115) it gives the Scriptures that give the advice of the Apostles in the matter of the masters over them at that time(Rome) and if you consider if they stated that they should see the master over them(Rome) as ordained by God(Romans 13:1) then (if) Rome was the one who was giving the mark(at that time) then the Apostles would be saying it is fine to obey them and buy and sell with Romes mark(Romans 13:7)...

So it is not that the Apostles thought this was the beast in their times in the first century they were living in that would render the mark or image to worship but instead as Revelation 17:10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17&version=KJV states they were living in the time of the sixth head and that the 7th,the ten horns and the 8th were to come after that point in time(first century). So if the 7th,the ten horns,and the 8th were future tense to them in the first century then they were still under the authority of the rule of the fourth beast of Daniel and so they stated to honor it as if ordained by God at that time. (I will re-post post 115 for reference)...

Your detailed reply is much appreciated. We like things Simple, because we are Simple.

Are you saying that the "Mark of the Beast" is Money?

 

[Dave-L]

Jesus is saying they would fall by the sword,be led into captivity and Jerusalem would be trodden down until the time of the gentiles were fulfilled. https://biblehub.com/kjv/luke/21-24.htm

Do you think more judgement is not in store for unbelievers?
“forbidding us to speak to the nations that they might be saved, to fill up their sins always, but the anger did come upon them—to the end!” 1 Thessalonians 2:16 (YLT)

 

[Elihoenai]

Re-posted for your convenience.

Agreed, All Power is Ordained by Elohim/God. The irrefutable Fact is that Evil Rulers that are Running an Evil Administration/Government compel their subjects, who they have Power over, to be Evil and do Evil. Satan/Devil wants and demands absolute rebellion against Elohim/God.

 

[iamsoandso]

Your detailed reply is much appreciated. We like things Simple, because we are Simple.

Are you saying that the "Mark of the Beast" is Money?

If you notice the direct wording in Revelation 13:17 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13:17&version=KJV the word or is in between three possible methods the name,the mark and the number but you only considering one thing.

 

[Elihoenai]

If you notice the direct wording in Revelation 13:17 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13:17&version=KJV the word or is in between three possible methods the name,the mark and the number but you only considering one thing.

We are finding out your considerations on the "Mark of the Beast". Are you saying that the Name, Mark and Number mean different things? If yes, are you saying that the Mark is Money?

 

[iamsoandso]

Agreed, All Power is Ordained by Elohim/God. The irrefutable Fact is that Evil Rulers that are Running an Evil Administration/Government compel their subjects, who they have Power over, to be Evil and do Evil. Satan/Devil wants and demands absolute rebellion against Elohim/God.

Look at verse 2 and 14 the Scriptures are saying that the dragon and the two horned beast do something also with the beast that was, was not yet is,,that is there is an image of that beast set forth. This is what I am pointing out in that it is not ordained by God but is of the devil and Revelation 13 is saying who puts it there to so you don't confuse it with those God ordained(times of the gentiles) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13&version=KJV

 

[wolfwint]

Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ. John says if any do not have the doctrine of Christ, they don't have God. So the question is, does the Sermon allow for violence for any reason?

Come on, Jesus told this for to shown that nobody can hold it and is able to enter the kingdom. You cant tell me that you are living a sinless life and deserve it to live in Gods kingdom. Any single sin will keep you out.
I fear you are not only the scripture, you also ignore the reality.

 

[Dave-L]

Come on, Jesus told this for to shown that nobody can hold it and is able to enter the kingdom. You cant tell me that you are living a sinless life and deserve it to live in Gods kingdom. Any single sin will keep you out.
I fear you are not only the scripture, you also ignore the reality.

I lived it for years. Made a career out of it. Those who reject it don't have God according to John.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As I said. You are living in your own world.

He will not see anything unless it supports his view. Remember he claimed we are not born again hence why we can’t see

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus isn't talking about that. He's telling us to preach to the gentiles until the end of the world = the times of the gentiles end then, not before.

Not true

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I lived it for years. Made a career out of it. Those who reject it don't have God according to John.

I guess you do not have God then

 

[wolfwint]

I lived it for years. Made a career out of it. Those who reject it don't have God according to John.

And now you living without sin?

 

[Dave-L]

And now you living without sin?

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

I battle sin in the thought realm but don't allow it to develop.

 

[wolfwint]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

I battle sin in the thought realm but don't allow it to develop.

So you living sinless? You are the first person I ever met. I asking me is ignoring scripture a sin.

 

[Dave-L]

So you living sinless? You are the first person I ever met. I asking me is ignoring scripture a sin.

You can walk in the Spirit and not fulfil the lusts of the flesh according to Paul. My battles are in the thought and imagination realm. I seldom sin outwardly.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

I battle sin in the thought realm but don't allow it to develop.

wow so he is sinless also

It keeps getting deeper

 

[eternally-gratefull]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

I battle sin in the thought realm but don't allow it to develop.

1 John 1: 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us

Yep about says it all

 

[wolfwint]

You can walk in the Spirit and not fulfil the lusts of the flesh according to Paul. My battles are in the thought and imagination realm. I seldom sin outwardly.

Sin is sin! Again no answer to my question.

 

[Dave-L]

Sin is sin! Again no answer to my question.

Temptation is not sin unless embraced.

 

[Rondonmon]

The Times of the Gentiles

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Dave L


Speaking of 70 AD and Jerusalem’s destruction, Jesus says; “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Luke 21:24 (KJV 1900)

Many believe 1948 and the Jews moving into Palestine signaled an end to the times of the gentiles. But if we backtrack to the beginning of Israel and those traditionally called Jews, they began as gentiles. And became Abraham’s covenant seed through circumcision. In fact, none of Abraham’s covenant seed had his DNA, only Ishmael then.

So it was always circumcision the sign of the covenant and membership in the community that made one a “Jew”, not birth. If any born did not receive circumcision on their eighth day, they cut them off from the group and they remained a gentile. When Abraham excommunicated Ishmael, he became a gentile even though circumcised as his son.

So Jerusalem being trodden down by gentiles means everything you see today. Trodden down by the uncircumcised. When Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, circumcision became obsolete and no longer made one a physical Jew or physical member of Israel. He excommunicated all unbelieving Jews. No longer were they Abraham’s covenant seed but gentiles with Jewish ethnicity.

And when Paul’s generation of before Calvary circumcised Jews died off, nothing remained to separate them from the gentiles. From then on they became gentiles by default.

Only the circumcised in heart, believers like Abraham and Paul remained biblical Israel into whom God grafted believing gentiles.

When do the times of the Gentiles end?

Jesus said: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations [gentiles], baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Matthew 28:19–20 (KJV 1900)

Meaning the times of the gentiles including ethnic Jews remain until the end of the world. And from all Paul says “God will save all Israel, defined as believers in Christ.

Romans chapters 9-11 explain what the times of the Gentiles means. Its the Church Age of the Gentiles, and there are a few Jews because they were blinded IN PART not in full, because the Jewish disciples brought the Gospel unto us and all along the way a few Messianic Jews have been part of the Church at all times, but Israel was as Dead Men's Bones until 1948.

So only when the Church is Raptured pre 70th week will the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled. We know this is the case because the Gentiles in Rev. only run roughshod over Jerusalem for 42 months, so it has to be two different entities that are being spoken about. One is the 2000 year church age Gentiles given the mantle of taking the Gospel unto the ends of the earth and the Beast and his Gentile Kingdom that Conquer Jerusalem and overrun it for 42 months.