The Security Of The Believer

[fredoheaven]

In John chapter 8, Jesus said the Jews were of their father the devil and the lusts of their father they will do. In verse 47 Jesus says, "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.” Obviously their doing sinful lusts like their father the devil has a great impact on why they were not able to understand or hear Jesus’ words. Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. For example: Jesus says repent or perish. Jesus warned about how certain sins can keep us out of God’s Kingdom like lusting after a woman (Matthew 5:28-30), unforgiveness (Matthew 6:15), speaking the wrong words (Matthew 12:37), not helping the poor (Matthew 25:31-46), and turning back in preaching the gospel (Luke 9:62). One is obviously not hearing God’s words if they ignore these warnings in Scripture. Most Christians today do. They do not think there is any danger even when they are in sin. They have not passed from death unto life because they did not hear God’s words in regards to hearing the warnings about how sin destroys our souls in the afterlife and if we don’t confess and forsake such sins, we are toast.

Yes, it is hearing and believing to be saved, obeying follows to the saved. Of course, you are trying to insert "obedience" when Jesus didn't say it. Your obvious is so obviously correct, their evil deeds show because of their rejection to hear and their disbelief.

 

[Kroogz]

From :

http://solascriptura-tt.org/Soterio...assagesSomeUseToTeachLossSalvation-Pipers.htm

Regarding:

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandman. Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in Me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in Me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without Me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and, they are burned." (John 15:1-6)

1) "He taketh away" 15:2 means that those believers who do not bear fruit are taken away or lifted up out of their place. Taketh away = lifted up from the ground. The Father reserves the right to remove an unfruitful believer to heaven. This is maximum discipline of physical death. Fruitful branches are purged or pruned to bear more fruit. Therefore, both fruitful and unfruitful branches are under the immediate care of the Father (the Husbandman).
Purging means to cleanse a branch from filth and impurity by washing off insects, parasites and moss.
The washing is by the Word of God. (15:3)

2) "He is cast forth as a branch, and is withered." (15:6)
If a believer does not abide in Christ, he is out of fellowship with Christ, his public testimony is rejected by men, and his spiritual vitality is diminished or withered. He is like the castaway in 1 Corinthians 9:27 who is disapproved but not lost. All backsliders have a withered, reduced spiritual vitality.

3) "Men gather them, and cast them into the fire, they are burned." (15:6)
Notice the plural pronouns "them" and "they". It is not "men gather him, and cast him into the fire, and he is burned", as it would have been if it referred to losing salvation or to a professor. The "them" and "they" are what issues from the one who has been cast forth as a branch - dead works: wood, hay, stubble, which will be burned at the Judgment Seat of Christ, as 1 Corinthians 3:15 tells us: "If any man's work shall be burned (the same word as in John 15:6), he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

Hence "them" and "they" refer to the believers dead works which are burned up at the Judgment Seat of Christ.


So here you can see with this website.. they are showing the CONTEXT of these verses. They have been compared to other verses such as John 3:16, 5:24.. Ephesians 2:8-9 etc..

If we are gonna take a verse from it surrounds.. like a brick from a wall.. it no longer becomes part of the whole. It loses it's meaning. The whole bible harmonises perfectly.. and so these judgment and cutting off verses need to be put alongside the tons and tons of verses emphasising the security of the believer.

A+. I saw "Piper" in the link, and thought, No way! It's a different Piper.

Superb post.

 

[fredoheaven]

Back in my post #721, I have stated that to hear also has a meaning to obey. Why? Because like I said, there are obedience instructions in His Word like 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8-9, and 1 Timothy 5:8.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 is saying God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth.
Sanctification is Holy Living by the Spirit. It is a life long process according to 2 Corinthians 7:1. Belief of the truth also must continue until the end according to Hebrews 3:14, as well. Romans 8:13 says that we are to put to death the misdeeds of the body, we will live (live eternally). Galatians 6:8-9 is saying that we have to sow to the Spirit in "well doing“ (i.e., good works) to reap everlasting life. 1 Timothy 5:8 says we have to provide for our own or we are worse than an unbeliever. All these things require us to obey God or His Word (i.e., to follow Him).

The Bible is a set of instructions for us. If we are truly hearing God’s words in the Bible, we will obey those verses on being saved by God’s grace through faith without works. Then we will obey those verses on Sanctification and follow the LORD.

Sanctification is a work of the Holy Spirit. In the context of 2 Thes. 2:13, the Holy Spirit "not us" who did the work of setting us apart and belief of the truth, which truth is that when we are called by the gospel. v.14. This is synonymous to what Apostle Paul in 1 Thes. 2:13 and this nothing to do with "works".

1 Thessalonians 2:13 KJVFor this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

After being born again, I believe a Christian has to continually ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit to give us understanding in Jesus’ name (i.e., the Anointing as mentioned in 1 John 2:27).

[Bible Highlighter - Quote Altered by NightTwister]After being born again, I believe a Christian has to continually ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit.[/QUOTE]

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, -- John 14:16
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. -- Acts 2:38
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, I Cor 6:19

No need to keep asking for what God has already provided.

This is deceptive and wrong. You are twisting my words. When you quoted my post you put a period at certain point in my words and you left off the rest of what I said.

This was the full quote of my words:

“After being born again, I believe a Christian has to continually ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit to give us understanding in Jesus’ name (i.e., the Anointing as mentioned in 1 John 2:27).” ~ Quote by Bible Highlighter.​

By this statement, I am not saying that we don’t have the Holy Spirit as the downpayment of our inheritance (if we do not grieve the Holy Spirit by sin). I was talking about something unique or special involving the Holy Spirit.

Notice this verse.

Acts 4:31

And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.​

So, did they not have the Holy Spirit before? They sure did. What was going on here is a special refilling of the Holy Ghost in power to speak the word of God with boldness. They also prayed and they were filled with the Holy Ghost. So when I said that we are to ask the Father to send the Spirit for understanding, I was referring to something similar to what we see in Acts 4:31. It does not mean one does not have the Spirit. It is a special refilling for a specific or special task.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In Jude 1, these believers who turn God’s grace into a license to sin are very clever. They are so clever that they slip in among other genuine believers. It’s why the tares (weeds) look like the wheat. They are hard to spot. But Jesus says we will know them by their fruit. It’s not, we will know them by a belief.

Jude
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

So you want us to believe that People who deny God were saved
You want us to believe that People who were marked out for condemnation long ago were saved?
You want us to believe Ungodly men were saved?

You want us to take you seriously????

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In regard to the parable of the talents, the talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (Matthew 25:15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (Matthew 25:25). The third servant had been given a talent according to his ability and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance but chose to reject it.

Also, the fact that the latter man in this parable is called "wicked" and "slothful" and an "unprofitable servant" (Matthew 25:30) who is "cast out into outer darkness" indicates that he was not a true disciple of the master. The idea of this parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degrees. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Those who produce no results are not truly converted.

This man's characterization of the master maligns him as "reaping and gathering" what he had no right to claim as his own. This wicked, lazy servant does not represent a genuine believer as it's obvious that he had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not necessarily mean that he was saved either.

The children of Israel (Oh Israel - Isaiah 43:1) were called the Lord’s servants, but they were not all saved. Isaiah 43:10 - "You are My witnesses, says the Lord," And My servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me.

Leviticus 25:55 - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Yet God later destroyed those who did not believe. (Jude 1:5)

Nehemiah 1:6 - please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father’s house and I have sinned.

He probably won't like this explanation either.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Sanctification is a work of the Holy Spirit. In the context of 2 Thes. 2:13, the Holy Spirit "not us" who did the work of setting us apart and belief of the truth, which truth is that when we are called by the gospel. v.14. This is synonymous to what Apostle Paul in 1 Thes. 2:13 and this nothing to do with "works".

This is false.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 says,
”For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;”

2 Corinthians 7:1 says,
”…let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

Other Sanctification for salvation verses that does involve our free will cooperation to take action are Romans 8:13, and Galatians 6:8-9.

Romans 8:13
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

Notice what it says. If you live one way after the flesh or sin, you will die (die spiritually). If you live another way by putting to death the deeds of the body by the Holy Spirit, you will live (live eternally).

Galatians 6:8-9
”For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

Okay. So verse 8 is saying that if you sow to the flesh (sin), you will reap corruption. But if you sow to the Holy Spirit you will reap life everlasting. Note: Sowing does not mean doing nothing. The idea of sowing is like a farmer who works in planting seeds. Now, in verse 9, we are told by Paul that we are not be weary (tired) in well doing (good works), which is sowing to the Spirit, but we will reap if we faint not. Reap what? Life everlasting as told to us in verse 8. So you have to sow to the Holy Spirit in doing good works in order to reap life everlasting. This is what the passage is plainly saying unless you don’t like what it says and therefore you will do backflip twists through hoops of fire to try and change it. But the point here is that the Bible is teaching that it’s not just doing nothing and or waiting for the Spirit to force you to do something good against your natural carnal self every few years. Believers have to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

1 Thessalonians 2:13 KJVFor this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Believing the Scriptures involves believing not only the grace verses correctly, but it also involves believing the verses on the warnings against sin in how it can destroy your soul, and it involves believing how Sanctification is a part of salvation. It is believing the Scriptures in that they teach salvation is conditional. If this was not the case, then there would be no verses warning you to fear God. But of course many of your teachers change the word “fear” to mean something else making the Word of God of no effect.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Jude
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

So you want us to believe that People who deny God were saved
You want us to believe that People who were marked out for condemnation long ago were saved?
You want us to believe Ungodly men were saved?

You want us to take you seriously????

You appear to be misunderstanding something that I said with Scripture.
I am saying that those false believers who slipped in among the real believers justify sin in some way and they do so more covertly. They are not the Hyper Grace Christians who make it obvious that one can sin and still be saved (Turning God’s grace into a license for immorality).

I am not even sure where you even stand on this issue.
Do you believe in Hyper Grace? Meaning, do you believe like George Sodini? George Sodini is a Hyper Grace Christian who thought he was saved even when he murdered some people and he took his own life. He wrote in his suicide letter (so-to-speak) that he would be saved by a belief in Jesus despite his wrong actions. Even his own church said he was saved despite the crimes he committed. Do you believe like he does?

 

[selahsays]

Jude
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

So you want us to believe that People who deny God were saved
You want us to believe that People who were marked out for condemnation long ago were saved?
You want us to believe Ungodly men were saved?

You want us to take you seriously????

Yeah, these sneaky “certain men” were not Christians; they were fakes—wolves in sheep’s clothing. They called themselves Jews and were not even close.
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

- Revelation 3:9 (KJV)

 

[selahsays]

You appear to be misunderstanding something that I said with Scripture.
I am saying that those false believers who slipped in among the real believers justify sin in some way and they do so more covertly. They are not the Hyper Grace Christians who make it obvious that one can sin and still be saved (Turning God’s grace into a license for immorality).

I am not even sure where you even stand on this issue.
Do you believe in Hyper Grace? Meaning, do you believe like George Sodini? George Sodini is a Hyper Grace Christian who thought he was saved even when he murdered some people and he took his own life. He wrote in his suicide letter (so-to-speak) that he would be saved by a belief in Jesus despite his wrong actions. Even his own church said he was saved despite the crimes he committed. Do you believe like he does?

Hello brother. Hmmm… but did this guy repent? Only God knows the heart. Grace is grace. I’m not sure how grace can be called ”hyper.” Please explain.

 

[Cameron143]

This is false.

1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 says,
”For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;”

2 Corinthians 7:1 says,
”…let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

Other Sanctification for salvation verses that does involve our free will cooperation to take action are Romans 8:13, and Galatians 6:8-9.

Romans 8:13
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

Notice what it says. If you live one way after the flesh or sin, you will die (die spiritually). If you live another way by putting to death the deeds of the body by the Holy Spirit, you will live (live eternally).

Galatians 6:8-9
”For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

Okay. So verse 8 is saying that if you sow to the flesh (sin), you will reap corruption. But if you sow to the Holy Spirit you will reap life everlasting. Note: Sowing does not mean doing nothing. The idea of sowing is like a farmer who works in planting seeds. Now, in verse 9, we are told by Paul that we are not be weary (tired) in well doing (good works), which is sowing to the Spirit, but we will reap if we faint not. Reap what? Life everlasting as told to us in verse 8. So you have to sow to the Holy Spirit in doing good works in order to reap life everlasting. This is what the passage is plainly saying unless you don’t like what it says and therefore you will do backflip twists through hoops of fire to try and change it. But the point here is that the Bible is teaching that it’s not just doing nothing and or waiting for the Spirit to force you to do something good against your natural carnal self every few years. Believers have to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).



Believing the Scriptures involves believing not only the grace verses correctly, but it also involves believing the verses on the warnings against sin in how it can destroy your soul, and it involves believing how Sanctification is a part of salvation. It is believing the Scriptures in that they teach salvation is conditional. If this was not the case, then there would be no verses warning you to fear God. But of course many of your teachers change the word “fear” to mean something else making the Word of God of no effect.

You shouldn't stop in Philippians 2:12 and go on to verse 13...for it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
Sanctification is us working out what God is working in. When we respond in compliance, it brings blessing and life. When we do not, we grieve the Spirit and forfeit blessing and the life of Christ in us. But we don't lose the Spirit. He begins to convict us of our sin and bring restoration of fellowship and communion with the Father.
If the Spirit ever left us, we would revert back to what we formerly were. It is Christ in us that is the hope of glory...not us in us.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

@Bible_Highlighter - I agree with most everything you've written, but I agree with @NightTwister that you don't need to keep asking for the Holy Spirit to be sent.

I believe that the Holy Spirit will reside with a believer forever unless they grieve the Holy Spirit by sin. The Holy Spirit is the downpayment of our inheritance. However, the poster called, “NightTwister“ had twisted my words and added a period in my sentence and left off the rest of what I said, which I believe is wrong.

Here is my full quote of the words that NightTwister altered:

”After being born again, I believe a Christian has to continually ask the Father to send the Holy Spirit to give us understanding in Jesus’ name (i.e., the Anointing as mentioned in 1 John 2:27).” Quote by Bible Highlighter.​

Anyway, I was talking in context to praying for a special task.

We see in Acts 4:31 this taking place.

Acts 4:31
”And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.”

So we see Christians (who no doubt had the Holy Spirit) pray, and then the Holy Ghost had filled them and they spake the word of God with boldness. This was a very specific task. This is what I was referring to. My point was for the task of understanding Scripture. it is a special empowerment from the Spirit. I was not referring to how we need to keep receiving the Holy Spirit over and over as our downpayment of our inheritance repeatedly. That was not what I was talking about. As we see in the above verse, Christians who have the Spirit already can pray and be filled with the Spirit for a special task.

By the way, great posts @Bible_Highlighter!

May all glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Lord Jesus and His words is what gives me strength.

Here is also a good video about OSAS that lists pertaining verses and explains between Christians who struggle against sin and those who practice it:

Is Once Saved Always Saved Biblical?

🍒

Thank you. I will check it out.
May God bless you and your family greatly in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Fundaamental]

@Bible_Highlighter - I agree with most everything you've written, but I agree with @NightTwister that you don't need to keep asking for the Holy Spirit to be sent.

The Holy Spirit will stay with the Christian for as long as the Christian wants. If anything, if a Christian falls away it's because they left the Holy Spirit (since God doesn't take away our free will), not the other way around.

By the way, great posts @Bible_Highlighter!

Here is also a good video about OSAS that lists pertaining verses and explains between Christians who struggle against sin and those who practice it:

Is Once Saved Always Saved Biblical?

🍒

can't agree with this video sorry

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

You shouldn't stop in Philippians 2:12 and go on to verse 13...for it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.
Sanctification is us working out what God is working in. When we respond in compliance, it brings blessing and life. When we do not, we grieve the Spirit and forfeit blessing and the life of Christ in us. But we don't lose the Spirit. He begins to convict us of our sin and bring restoration of fellowship and communion with the Father.
If the Spirit ever left us, we would revert back to what we formerly were. It is Christ in us that is the hope of glory...not us in us.

I was not born again yesterday. So I am not denying God does the work in a believer. I have a good list of verses that support how the Lord does the good work through the believer. It’s why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus. I believe all three persons of the Trinity work in the believer to be holy. The point is that God does not force you against your will when He does the good work through you. It’s a co-operation. It’s a walk. Amos 3:3 says, “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” Otherwise, other statements in the Bible telling you to do specific actions in regards to our holy conduct would be nonsensical.

Besides, we are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​

​

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

​

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

But of course, many in your camp will ignore these verses.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Hello brother. Hmmm… but did this guy repent? Only God knows the heart. Grace is grace. I’m not sure how grace can be called ”hyper.” Please explain.

Hyper Grace is a Theological term that you can look up on the internet, and read about in various Christian articles.
Basically, Hyper Grace is believing you can sin in excess or all you want and you are still saved by a belief alone in Jesus.
Meaning, I have talked with a Christian in person who admitted to me that he could mow down a crowd of people with a sub machine gun and they would be saved while they were doing so all because they had a belief alone in Jesus. This is Hyper Grace.

George Sodini did not repent because he committed suicide. In his suicide letter (so-to-speak) he wrote before he murdered others and took his own life by his own gun said that he could do such things and be saved by having a belief alone in Jesus. You would think that his church would have disowned him. But they didn’t. They doubled down and said George Sodini was saved despite his murder of others and despite his own suicide. Again, George Sodini is an example of Hyper Grace.

Hyper Grace believers are Christians who believe you can live in extreme amounts of sin and be saved all because you have a belief alone in Jesus. Repentance of sin according to Hyper Grace Christians is not necessary for salvation.

However, Jesus and their followers warned against how sin can destroy our souls (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (Galatians 5:19-21) (1 Timothy 5:8) (Revelation 21:8) unless we confess and forsake such sins whereby we can be forgiven (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7). Jesus basically said, Repent or perish (Luke 13:3).

There is a lighter version of Christians justifying sin that is less noticeable. They make it appear they are for holy living according to the Bible, but they also believe one can sin and still be saved as long as one does not do the big sins like murder, rape, theft, etcetera.

But if you ever read Jude 1 before, you would see that these believers who turn God’s grace into lasciviousness or a license to sin, it definitely does not make sense if these were Hyper Grace Christians. The true Christians were faithful to God and His Word and they did not turn His grace into a license for sin. So there is a group of believers who were more subtle or deceptive to make you believe they were for holy living when they really were not. If you were to read this chapter with an open mind several times in prayer, this is what you will discover.

 

[Evmur]

If OSAS was true, I could just go back to my old life of sin and just believe on Jesus. I could have the best of both worlds.
But that’s not how it works. Anyone who reads the New Testament for any length of time is going to run into many warning passages to us believers. Only a person who does not want to see such verses because they want the easy way out is never going to see the light on the matter until it’s too late. Well, there are a very small few who do see the light on this topic and have come out of OSAS, but it is very rare. But I cannot change the truth of the Scriptures. They are very clear that salvation is conditional and you need to confess and forsake sin. If not, one is going to be toast. It’s just that simple. Granted, I do not want anyone to perish by any means.

here's another thing for you to consider

We are saved while we are still in our sins, we are actually dead in trespasses and sins when God performs His miracle of forgiveness and regeneration ... so sin is no barrier to God. Not any more since Christ has died for them.

The only barrier is unbelief .... which your doctrine seeks to promote,

 

[Evmur]

I was not born again yesterday. So I am not denying God does the work in a believer. I have a good list of verses that support how the Lord does the good work through the believer. It’s why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus. I believe all three persons of the Trinity work in the believer to be holy. The point is that God does not force you against your will when He does the good work through you. It’s a co-operation. It’s a walk. Amos 3:3 says, “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” Otherwise, other statements in the Bible telling you to do specific actions in regards to our holy conduct would be nonsensical.

Besides, we are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​

​

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

​

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

​

We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

But of course, many in your camp will ignore these verses.

describe your steadfastness ,,, you are a here today gone tomorrow man you are on permanent probation. You can't say "I am saved" you can only say "I hope so"

 

[Cameron143]

I was not born again yesterday. So I am not denying God does the work in a believer. I have a good list of verses that support how the Lord does the good work through the believer. It’s why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus. I believe all three persons of the Trinity work in the believer to be holy. The point is that God does not force you against your will when He does the good work through you. It’s a co-operation. It’s a walk. Amos 3:3 says, “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” Otherwise, other statements in the Bible telling you to do specific actions in regards to our holy conduct would be nonsensical.

Besides, we are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).​

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"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).​

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"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​

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We are told to:

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).
3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

But of course, many in your camp will ignore these verses.

Not ignored. But it does cause concern. You have shown that you believe, in spite of the ongoing work of God, that you must maintain your salvation. You have said on the front end it is all of God, and on the back end it is of us. Truth is, it's all of God.
You use a sophisticated argument, but in essence have just backended salvation with works.

 

[selahsays]

Hyper Grace is a Theological term that you can look up on the internet, and read about in various Christian articles.
Basically, Hyper Grace is believing you can sin in excess or all you want and you are still saved by a belief alone in Jesus.
Meaning, I have talked with a Christian in person who admitted to me that he could mow down a crowd of people with a sub machine gun and they would be saved while they were doing so all because they had a belief alone in Jesus. This is Hyper Grace.

This is simply a man-madeup word and definition. blah blah blah

This, on the other hand, is what God says:
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

- 2 Corinthians 12:9 (KJV)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You appear to be misunderstanding something that I said with Scripture.
I am saying that those false believers who slipped in among the real believers justify sin in some way and they do so more covertly. They are not the Hyper Grace Christians who make it obvious that one can sin and still be saved (Turning God’s grace into a license for immorality).

Now your just being more deceptive

This is what you said

In Jude 1, these believers who turn God’s grace into a license to sin are very clever. They are so clever that they slip in among other genuine believers. It’s why the tares (weeds) look like the wheat. They are hard to spot. But Jesus says we will know them by their fruit. It’s not, we will know them by a belief.

1. You called them believers, You not only did not call them false believers. you said

2. They slip in among OTHER genuine believers. inferring that they are also genuine believers.

and you never mentioned hypergrace at all. So that is just more of your deception

I am not even sure where you even stand on this issue.
Do you believe in Hyper Grace? Meaning, do you believe like George Sodini? George Sodini is a Hyper Grace Christian who thought he was saved even when he murdered some people and he took his own life. He wrote in his suicide letter (so-to-speak) that he would be saved by a belief in Jesus despite his wrong actions. Even his own church said he was saved despite the crimes he committed. Do you believe like he does?

Its not for me who to judge who is saved or not. Thats Gods job.

Its up to me to get the gospel correct for my own eternal decision. and to call out false teachers who are proposing a false gospel. who are leading people away from a gospel that save


Once again, With all your deception. Why should anyone listen to you